Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[Hale The Villain]

Tavares as a player isn’t an issue but like you said he is playing the #2 role, when that role is filling $11 million of your cap, that becomes an issue. On top of that he was a player who signed as a FA, given his age it isn’t really a moveable contract either.

I would consider the #2 center position as arguably as more important than any other forward position besides obviously the #1 center spot.

Don't think it's a problem having a #1 quality center playing behind a superstar center. The opposite in fact - it's ideal.

Been hearing that argument for awhile about it being a waste that Malkin is the #2 center on paper on the Pens, but I've always found it silly.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Maybe we could start a thread for Maple Leafs discussion, then move the last 5 pages over there…and then lock the thread.

 

[Big Muddy]

I think its valid to point out they aren't great contracts even if the players produce almost enough to justify them. I just can't assume anything better was possible. A player like Matthews holds all the marbles either way and if he wants out, he'll ultimately get his way sort of like how Stone handled it, you just have to hope he wants to play ball.

I have often wondered how much of a role the Tavares contract had on the mindset of Matthews & Marner. It seems rather natural to compare yourself, your production and your role within the organization to another employee. Its possible these 2 ostensibly unrelated events are related to some degree.

 

[Micklebot]

Tavares as a player isn’t an issue but like you said he is playing the #2 role, when that role is filling $11 million of your cap, that becomes an issue. On top of that he was a player who signed as a FA, given his age it isn’t really a moveable contract either.

The pandemic kind of screwed up the typical flow of UFA signings starting off as massive overpays but becoming more palatable as they go. If I recall, the cap was projecting tohit close to 100 mil by around next season, instead it's been frozen or close to it for 3 years.

Any big deals signed prior to 2020 look bad right now, by about 10-15%

 

[HSF]

Tavares was Dubas. All those extensions were Dubas. He has financially handcuffed the team for the foreseeable future, which has seen many quality players leave who would have been great compliments to the core as their game matured.

If Tavares is is worst move then Dubas is doing well.

Toronto couldn't have predicted a flat cap and Tavares has been playing at a number 1 C level for them

again no one is saying Dubas is perfect but he has done a good job with that roster who are a very very good team

 

[GCK]

would anyone here rather have Dorion over Dubas?

serious question

That's moving the goalposts. If you started out asking is Dubas better than Dorion well that's easy, but the start of this was someone else saying Dubas is a top 3 GM.

Dubas is better than Dorion

Dubas is an average GM who makes great trades, bad drafting and bad signings.

Dubas is Marc Bergeron.

 

[HSF]

I'm really curious what the cost for Parayko would be... he's got a really risky contract to take on, health issues and is having a bad season, but he finds a way to resolve the back issues a la Alfie wearing Chris Kelly's skates, he's an ideal candidate.


Got to think the appetite for retaining would be very low with 7 years left, I'm just not loving that contract with his back the way it is, but the deal is declining, so buying out the last 3 years is manageable if it comes to that, can he be worth his salary for the first 4 years?

Everybody thought Karlsson was done, now he's probably winning another Norris, sometimes health issues do improve.

i assume 1st and a good prospect

 

[SpezDispenser]

Toronto got a LD who can play RD in a top 4 role for 2 mill and a couple of cheap bottom 6 guys who cost around a million

Must be nice to have a good GM

For a 1st plus. Anyone could have had them for that, yet no one but Toronto did it.

Intriguing, no?

 

[HSF]

That's moving the goalposts. If you started out asking is Dubas better than Dorion well that's easy, but the start of this was someone else saying Dubas is a top 3 GM.

Dubas is better than Dorion

Dubas is an average GM who makes great trades, bad drafting and bad signings.

Dubas is Marc Bergeron.

uhhh no the start of this was me saying that Dubas is a good GM and that the Mccabe deal was a steal and that its another GM showing that it is not hard to fill a hole like that

not sure why so many are overly defensive by calling Dubas a good GM. He is has improved a lot over the years and has learned a lot from his previous moves

 

[SpezDispenser]

If we're in on parayko, the blues better be paying the final 3 crap years

 

[Hale The Villain]

Pens GM Hextall taking the opposite approach to the Caps by going after Miller

Just waived McGinn to hopefully clear enough cap to take on his 8M deal

 

[Sens Vader]

@benjiv1 where you at

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Pens GM Hextall taking the opposite approach to the Caps by going after Miller

Just waived McGinn to hopefully clear enough cap to take on his 8M deal

McGinn is a really good defensive forward and would probably have value if the cap climbed as expected (remember COVID used to not be a thing?!).

Friedman is also on waivers. Decent player in his own right.

If we're in on parayko, the blues better be paying the final 3 crap years

Why would he waive for here?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

edm taking one of chychrun gavrikov or ekholm iit seems

They kinda have too

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Why would he waive for here?

We offer a better shot at being competitive than the Blues and there can't be many teams interested in picking him up.

He's probably going to Edmonton though. The fit is perfect there.

 

[GCK]

uhhh no the start of this was me saying that Dubas is a good GM and that the Mccabe deal was a steal and that its another GM showing that it is not hard to fill a hole like that

not sure why so many are overly defensive by calling Dubas a good GM. He is has improved a lot over the years and has learned a lot from his previous moves

On a side note I heard he Toronto along with the rest of the Canadian Teams made up McCabe's NTC list but he waived because the leafs have a chance to win.

 

[Sens Vader]

McGinn is a really good defensive forward and would probably have value if the cap climbed as expected (remember COVID used to not be a thing?!).

Friedman is also on waivers. Decent player in his own right.


Why would he waive for here?

Deadpool is his favourite superhero

 

[Golden_Jet]

Many people.

Reilly was drafted by Burke
Nylander and Marner were added under Nonis
Matthews and Tavares under Lamoreillo

What is your point? That the big guns of Toronto choking in round 1 each year is Dubas' fault, even though he didn't acquire them?

So not Dubas then.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dumba has since been their top D and, apparently, will not be moved.

Damn guy

 

[Big Muddy]

I would consider the #2 center position as arguably as more important than any other forward position besides obviously the #1 center spot.

Don't think it's a problem having a #1 quality center playing behind a superstar center. The opposite in fact - it's ideal.

Been hearing that argument for awhile about it being a waste that Malkin is the #2 center on paper on the Pens, but I've always found it silly.

I don't think people are arguing about whether Tavares is a good player, or that a 2C is not an important position.

It's the $11 m cap hit that is the focus. It's whether that $11 m is too much and perhaps affects how money can be spent (or not spent) on other positions. The most important result is playoff success (and the Cup being the pinnacle of that of course), and the Leafs have nothing to show based on this criteria.

By contrast, our 2C (Norris) has a $7.95 m cap hit.

 

[SlapJack]

Well it would certainly be a bigger success than what we did the last 5 years, no?

They've been eliminated in the first round 6 years in a row now, and they must be some kind of record During that period, Ottawa has won 2 playoff series so....

Of course Toronto has had more success since they made the playoffs all those years. Being an Ottawa fan the last 5 years has been challenging to say the least. But Dubas is the guy that gave Matthews/Marner/Tavares their contracts that eat up a massive amount of cap space, and has not surrounded them with the right players. Should've never went anywhere near Tavares for that money in my opinion.

At the very least, he could've drafted a variety of player styles where some cheap talent with a bit of grit could be had and balance out the roster. Instead, he almost always goes for that "puck possession" prototype which more often than not has been an undersized forward that would get caved in a playoff series. I do understand his philosophy where these are assets that can be converted into team needs through trade, but it doesn't look like Semyon Der-Arguchintsev, Nick Robertson, Roni Hirvonen, or Dmitry Ovchinnikov are fetching any of those big name trade deadline guys anytime soon. The only meaningful prospect he has drafted and used as a trade chip was Sean Durzi in the Muzzin deal

 

[Golden_Jet]

I would consider the #2 center position as arguably as more important than any other forward position besides obviously the #1 center spot.

Don't think it's a problem having a #1 quality center playing behind a superstar center. The opposite in fact - it's ideal.

Been hearing that argument for awhile about it being a waste that Malkin is the #2 center on paper on the Pens, but I've always found it silly.

Other than Malkin was 2 million less than JT.

 

[Sens Vader]

Sounds like STL could have negotiated a deal prior to asking for Parayko to waive his NTC. This could have been why we heard Ottawa's name come up last week

 

[HSF]

i guess no one is willing to answer the question

would you take Dubas as the Sens GM over Dorion?

I think that is telling

 

[Relapsing]

I don't people are arguing about whether Tavares is a good player, or that a 2C is not an important position.

It's the $11 m cap hit that is the focus. It's whether that $11 m is too much and perhaps affects how money can be spent (or not spent) on other positions. The most important result is playoff success (and the Cup being the pinnacle of that of course), and the Leafs have nothing to show based on this criteria.

By contrast, our 2C (Norris) has a $7.95 m cap hit.

It's both the cap hit, and the implications that signing had on the other contracts signed afterwards for their big guns.

Tavares is an outstanding 2c. Not a question.