Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[Sens of Anarchy]

Trade talk around Talbot can't be too hot with him starting this week.

 

[bert]

Lol, no GMs desperate to win a cup in the summer. Really you believe that.

Do you really believe that teams arent pushing harder at the trade deadline especially when they are 2nd in the league then in the summer?.... Especially when they have all that cap space with Pacioretty out.

Making the playoffs would be huge.

We gotta go for it.

Don't go crazy but just don't sell anyone except Talbot.

Lol what? Absolutely not the time.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Trade talk around Talbot can't be too hot with him starting this week.

Maybe teams want to see him play since he’s coming off an injury.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think that's because the teams trading the player prioritized picks and prospects. Their time horizon is 3-4 years. We don't know what they would've gotten if they prioritized NHL players as the return.

There are lots of non-Huberdeau type examples:

Dougie Hamilton for Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin (2018)
Jeff Carter for Jake Voracek (2011)
Jeff Carter for Jack Johnson (2012)
Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones (2016)
Nick Foligno for Marc Methot (2012)
PK Subban for Shea Weber (2016)
Dany Heatley for Milan Michalek (2009)
Tyler Seguin for Louie Eriksson (2013)
Justin Faulk for Joel Edmundson (2019)
Derick Brassard for Mika Zibanejad (2016)
Jordan Staal for Brandon Sutter (2012)

I won't go back and look at every piece and contract statuses for all of these, but NHL player for NHL player trades do happen.

Not sure listing 11 trades in the last 13 years is making the point you think it is.

If DeBrincat chooses to re-sign we'll almost certainly be moving him for a package of players, prospects and picks. That's just the reality.

If Dorion were to insist on getting a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman back in any DeBrincat deal he'd be severely handcuffing himself and limiting his market.

It would be far smarter to just get as much currency in prospects and picks as we could to then flip into immediate help in the summer when teams are looking at shedding cap ahead of UFA and are in draft mode.

 

[Ouroboros]

Will Borgen is on Seravalli's top-50 trade targets list.

He seems like an ideal fit. 6'3, physical, 26 year old RD. Stout defender with decent puck moving skills. Makes 900k and is an RFA this summer. If you can get him for a 2nd rounder - Seattle traded Jeremy Lauzon away last year for the same - then I like it a lot.

We need to assimilate the Borg.

 

[HSF]

Another early Toronto exit this year and he’s good as gone imo. Let’s be real here. He’s not getting any younger and he’s going to get PAID wherever he signs. I could easily see him think that his best chance to win a cup is elsewhere

i disagree

i dont think playoff success will define if he stays or goes. If he has a competitive team I think he stays. He is the king of toronto

 

[Hale The Villain]

We clearly disagree on the bolded, which is fine.

The team has vaulted themselves into playoff discussion without any additions, I think it's premature to say it wouldn't make a difference.

There are 6 teams ahead of us in the race for a wildcard spot.

Even if all the teams ahead of us simply played .500 hockey and lost as many games as they won, we'd need to win 16 of our last 24 games to make it in.

It's not impossible, but very unlikely.

 

[HSF]

ottawa is not part of the playoff discussion around the league....only in Ottawa

winning these two games might change that

 

[Golden_Jet]

Do you really believe that teams arent pushing harder at the trade deadline especially when they are 2nd in the league then in the summer?.... Especially when they have all that cap space with Pacioretty out.


Lol what? Absolutely not the time.

Lol,
Like I said more teams to negotiate with in the summer, then a handful that would look at DBC now,

 

[DaveMatthew]

Not sure listing 11 trades in the last 13 years is making the point you think it is.

If DeBrincat chooses to re-sign we'll almost certainly be moving him for a package of players, prospects and picks. That's just the reality.

If Dorion were to insist on getting a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman back in any DeBrincat deal he'd be severely handcuffing himself and limiting his market.

It would be far smarter to just get as much currency in prospects and picks as we could to then flip into immediate help in the summer when teams are looking at shedding cap ahead of UFA and are in draft mode.

I mean those were off the top of my head. So no, I didn't put together an exhaustive list.

This idea of "amassing currency in prospects and picks that you can then just flip" is great in theory if you're not bound by a timeline, but that's not how reality works. Ottawa does have a timeline. A short one compared to a team like San Jose. It's not that easy to pull of in a short timeframe. Ottawa doesn't have a few years to assess the prospects and manage the picks. They'll have this summer.

They need to be a playoff team next season.

Also, the deadline is the definition of a limited market. There are at most 5-6 aggressive buyers, and 2-3 of those, max, would have the need and motivation to acquire a player like Debrincat. Hell, we have no idea if NJ would have had any interest in Debrincat. He's a very different player from Meier. They already have lots of small skilled forwards. It's easy to believe that they went after Meier because he was big and skilled.

The market is much broader in the offseason. You have far more options in terms of potential trade partners and frameworks for the return.

In the summer, you'll get offers from more teams and will be able to choose between prospect-oriented, pick-oriented, or NHL player-oriented packages.

At the deadline, you'll get offers from a couple of teams and it'll only be pick and prospect packages.

Will you for sure get more "assets"? No, you might get less. But you'll have a better chance of finding a package that fits your specific needs and timeline. And we're at the point where we have specific needs and a timeline. We're not just trying to maximize the return on paper.

Maybe at the end of the day you still end up with picks and prospects that you have to try and flip. Who knows. You can't predict what will be available. But you won't be limited to that, like at the deadline.

For where we are as a team, it's worth it to wait, even if you risk a slightly lower return if that player-for-player trade doesn't materialize.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If DeBrincat chooses to re-sign we'll almost certainly be moving him for a package of players, prospects and picks. That's just the reality.

Hmm sure that’s what you mean.

So Sens commit to DBC for “X” # of years. they’ll trade and move him for a package.

Why would they sign him and move him.

 

[bert]

Lol,
Like I said more teams to negotiate with in the summer, then a handful that would look at DBC now,

If you actually dont understand the difference or havent been paying attention to the returns on players this time of year I dont know what to tell you. They get him for two guaranteed playoff runs instead of one. This is common sense. But if you refuse to acknowledge that why dont you look at comparative value for players at this time of year compared to around the draft. There is plenty of data.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Getting humiliated, embarrassed and swept in four games may not be the moral booster you think it is.

No team goes from bottom feeders and then like sneakily develops into a juggernaut and then takes the league by storm. Becoming a contender is a long process. And yea…losing playoff rounds is part of it. Losing first rounds is. Getting swept is. Tampa bay got absolutely humiliated by the Columbus blue jackets before winning 3 straight.

If you’re only gonna wait for us to be in that Golden optimal position to explode on the scene to acquire guys..then you may be waiting forever.

Hmm sure that’s what you mean.

So Sens commit to DBC for “X” # of years. they’ll trade and move him for a package.

Why would they sign him and move him.

He may have made a typo

 

[Big Muddy]

I noticed there was some conversations about Debrincat. Did I hear correctly a few days ago that they weren't going to talk to the Debrincat camp about his next contract? Is there an advantage to that as that seems like the opposite of what should be done.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I mean those were off the top of my head. So no, I didn't put together an exhaustive list.

This idea of "amassing currency in prospects and picks that you can then just flip" is great in theory if you're not bound by a timeline, but that's not how reality works. Ottawa does have a timeline. A short one compared to a team like San Jose. It's not that easy to pull of in a short timeframe. Ottawa doesn't have a few years to assess the prospects and manage the picks. They'll have this summer.

They need to be a playoff team next season.

Also, the deadline is the definition of a limited market. There are at most 5-6 aggressive buyers, and 2-3 of those, max, would have the need and motivation to acquire a player like Debrincat. Hell, we have no idea if NJ would have had any interest in Debrincat. He's a very different player from Meier.

The market is much broader in the offseason. You have far more options in terms of potential trade partners and frameworks for the return.

In the summer, you'll get offers from more teams and will be able to choose between prospect-oriented, pick-oriented, or NHL player-oriented packages.

At the deadline, you'll get offers from a couple of teams and it'll only be pick and prospect packages.

Will you for sure get more "assets"? No, you might get less. But you'll have a better chance of finding a package that fits your specific needs and timeline. And we're at the point where we have specific needs and a timeline. We're not just trying to maximize the return on paper.

Fair enough on the list of trades.

I really think you aren't optimistic enough about the Sens chances of being able to find a replacement top 6 forward. This off-season with the cap only going up by 1M a number of teams may be forced to dump salary. It may also be a weird year where we could be able to actually outbid some of the richer teams for a UFA, that is if DeBrincat isn't re-signed.

Would have zero problem adding a decent 2nd line winger to replace his spot, and that's all we'd need. I've said for awhile adding DeBrincat at forward was overkill given our issues on D and in goal. Don't need to replace him with another 8M top line forward. Wingers are the easiest position to find in hockey and we may even be better served replacing him with a guy who makes 4-5M, and then taking the 4M or so in cap savings to improve the D and in goal.

Hmm sure that’s what you mean.

So Sens commit to DBC for “X” # of years. they’ll trade and move him for a package.

Why would they sign him and move him.

Sorry meant if DeBrincat won't re-sign.

 

[Micklebot]

Hmm sure that’s what you mean.

So Sens commit to DBC for “X” # of years. they’ll trade and move him for a package.

Why would they sign him and move him.

I think he meant to say chooses not to re-sign.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If you actually dont understand the difference or havent been paying attention to the returns on players this time of year I dont know what to tell you. They get him for two guaranteed playoff runs instead of one. This is common sense. But if you refuse to acknowledge that why dont you look at comparative value for players at this time of year compared to around the draft. There is plenty of data.

Haha ok, then don’t tell me,
it won’t help your case.

I think he meant to say chooses not to re-sign.

Has to be a typo I hope.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Fair enough on the list of trades.

I really think you aren't optimistic enough about the Sens chances of being able to find a replacement top 6 forward. This off-season with the cap only going up by 1M a number of teams may be forced to dump salary. It may also be a weird year where we could be able to actually outbid some of the richer teams for a UFA, that is if DeBrincat isn't re-signed.

Would have zero problem adding a decent 2nd line winger to replace his spot, and that's all we'd need. I've said for awhile adding DeBrincat at forward was overkill given our issues on D and in goal. Don't need to replace him with another 8M top line forward. Wingers are the easiest position to find in hockey and we may even be better served replacing him with a guy who makes 4-5M, and then taking the 4M or so in cap savings to improve the D and in goal.

Right, but you could STILL trade him for picks and prospects when it's all said and done in the summer. I'm saying we shouldn't lock into trading him by Friday. Maintaining options, even if it risks a lower return, has benefits:

• Maybe new ownership comes in, sells him on their vision, and he commits to this organization
• Maybe it comes to light that there's a disgruntled impact defenseman somewhere on a good team, and the opportunity for a beneficial 1-1 deal arises
• Maybe a team that's expecting to make a big Cup run flames out in round 1, wants to shake things up, and aggressively pursues Debrincat

As an example, what if Edmonton gets swept, decides they need a sniper to placate McDavid, and offers you Evan Bouchard+?

And yes, maybe none of that happens and you end up having to trade him for less value than you could have at this deadline.

But if I'm Ottawa, I'd rather keep my options open until June.

 

[Cosmix]

Motte replace Formenton’s money. It’s pretty obvious there was still a budget in place. Dorion should have used the Debrincat 9M to bring in a top 4 and keep Brown.

Should have signed Formenton, not signed Motte and Brassard, and signed Paul instead of trading and signing Joseph. And that is just within the last year. The GM should have been replaced long ago.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Anyone listening to the pre game show? Did I mishear or was Gord Wilson hinting that Sokolov might get traded? Weren’t the Flyers head scout at the Belleville games last week?

 

[Ouroboros]

I noticed there was some conversations about Debrincat. Did I hear correctly a few days ago that they weren't going to talk to the Debrincat cap about his next contract? Is there an advantage to that as that seems like the opposite of what should be done.

Here's what Dorion said a few days ago...

“Alex DeBrincat is not being traded. No chance,” Dorion said firmly. “Well see where it goes at the end of the year, if we’ve signed a contract with him. But he’s not getting traded.”
It doesn’t sound like there is much traction in the way of contract negotiations between the two sides right now. On Thursday, DeBrincat indicated that things have been fairly quiet on that front.
“I honestly really don’t know too much. I leave it to my agent (Jeff Jackson) to figure it out,” DeBrincat said. “We talk every once in a while, but I haven’t heard too much.”

Multiple insiders have reported that there haven't been any substantive contract discussion between DeBrincat and the Sens. I don't see much advantage to waiting other than the potential practicality issue - Dorion may not have authorization to sign this size of a contract at this point in time.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Anyone listening to the pre game show? Did I mishear or was Gord Wilson hinting that Sokolov might get traded? Weren’t the Flyers head scout at the Belleville games last week?

Sokolov for ristolainen is gonna be off the hook.


Think we can get a little something for taking engvall? I like engvall

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Anyone listening to the pre game show? Did I mishear or was Gord Wilson hinting that Sokolov might get traded? Weren’t the Flyers head scout at the Belleville games last week?

Hell yeah, can’t wait for Ristolainen.

If we are indeed looking at centres like Brucie says, would it be possible for Philly to retain on Hayes (Brady’s cousin).

 

[DaveMatthew]

Anyone listening to the pre game show? Did I mishear or was Gord Wilson hinting that Sokolov might get traded? Weren’t the Flyers head scout at the Belleville games last week?

I could see Sokolov being in a situation where he asks for a fresh start somewhere else. Based on the Gauthier acquisition and who we've called up over him this season, I'm not sure he sees a path the being an NHLer here.

And I probably wouldn't blame him...

Whether Ottawa actually acts? Who knows. I'm sure Paul wanted out a few times during his struggles but we kept him and he ended up earning a spot at age 24.

Hell yeah, can’t wait for Ristolainen.

I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at Deangelo...

 

[Ouroboros]

Anyone listening to the pre game show? Did I mishear or was Gord Wilson hinting that Sokolov might get traded? Weren’t the Flyers head scout at the Belleville games last week?

I didn't hear it, but it doesn't surprise me. It's pretty clear that the Sens no longer have any real hope for this guy to crack the NHL, and he's looked fairly checked out in Belleville lately. The Sens acquiring Gauthier probably closes the door on him.

Last chance to recoup a little value here, because he's getting waived next fall.

He would probably welcome a fresh start.