Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[guyzeur]

We should not be going after rentals

You either find a long term fit for a top 4 RHD or leave it

the EK curse

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

A. I don’t think anyone is clamoring for him to spend wil assets if ANY on a pure rental.
B. The East will be tough for a long time. The chances of going out in the first round will always be high.

We can go from horrific team to cup favorites and then start making moves.

The expectation is that they will be in a better position to spend assets for run than they are now,
Let the next GM do the deals with his assessment of needs and valuations of players to come in. Both those Dorion has shown no capability on.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Trade deadline is silly season where teams throw away draft picks like they are trash because they think they are one acquisition away from the cup.

Teams are typically a lot more stingy about trading picks, especially 1sts, around the time of the draft when that's what the focus is.

If we're talking about pure value, no question we'd get more trading DeBrincat now than in the summer.

I don't think this is necessarily true.

2022 deadline: seven 1sts traded.
2023 summer: eight 1sts traded.
2023 season (so far): seven 1sts traded.

But I agree that Debrincat likely has the most value right now, especially if we retain.

The expectation is that they will be in a better position to spend assets for run than they are now,
Let the next GM do the deals with his assessment of needs and valuations of players to come in. Both those Dorion has shown no capability on.

I understand why you want this but we know that the only person really in control of that, beyond the limitations set by the board, is Dorion himself.

 

[salomonster]

The return from the Meier trade is simply ludicrous. Clearly Tampa is smarter than all of us............

I am ok with NOT going after that right shot d here at the trade deadline.

We do no have enough pics in the uber deep draft as it is. Do no give those away this year...

 

[WallyD]

I am sending out positive vibes for a Fabbro trade that comes with a 4 year extension.

Sens can increase attendance... Tell all the ladies we signed Fabio (a younger version)!

 

[DaveMatthew]

I don't think this is necessarily true.

2022 deadline: seven 1sts traded.
2023 summer: eight 1sts traded.
2023 season (so far): seven 1sts traded.

Also in the summer you know where a 1st will land.

Take the 1st the Wild got last year from the Kings - 19th OA.

Based on this handy value chart, 19th OA is worth 237.96 pts. That's worth more than a 1st (151.85 pts) + 2nd (40.20 pts) + 3rd (15.26 pts) from Carolina if they finish in the top 4.

But on the surface, a 1st + 2nd + 3rd looks way better than a single 1st.

While there's sticker shock when fans see what players are going for, high-end teams are not giving up as much value as you would think.

And as teams get more and more into the math and analytics of value, I expect it to continue. A traditional scout probably thinks the Lightning are crazy for the Jeannot deal. The analytics team working for the Lighting? Bet they look at it a lot differently.

 

[PlayItAgain]

I’m not sure the posters who are clamouring for PD to trade to bring in players for a playoff run have actually looked at the murderers’ row of teams in the East. If by some miracle the Sens squeaked into the playoffs, it would be a swift and brutal exit. Not worth giving up any assets for. Also, the chances of even making the post season are ridiculously small.

If they squeak into the playoffs, you think there’s no value in having the kids get a taste of what the real season feels like? Even if the Sens get destroyed in the first round, there’s genuine value of getting that experience. They go into summer training knowing how much work there’s still to do

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Making the playoffs would be huge.

We gotta go for it.

Don't go crazy but just don't sell anyone except Talbot.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I don't think this is necessarily true.

2022 deadline: seven 1sts traded.
2023 summer: eight 1sts traded.
2023 season (so far): seven 1sts traded.

Difference is that the 1sts in the offseason were only dealt in deals for long-term players like DeBrincat, Fiala, Romanov, etc... while 1sts are routinely traded at the deadline for rentals.

There's no question that teams value draft picks more highly at the draft than at the deadline.

 

[BondraTime]

Also in the summer you know where a 1st will land.

Take the 1st the Wild got last year from the Kings - 19th OA.

Based on this handy value chart, 19th OA is worth 237.96 pts. That's worth more than a 1st (151.85 pts) + 2nd (40.20 pts) + 3rd (15.26 pts) from Carolina if they finish in the top 4.

But on the surface, a 1st + 2nd + 3rd looks way better than a single 1st.

516.69 for DBC this summer in known picks based on the chart, ~550 in total.

Based on the chart, which is what it is, not agreeing or disagreeing with it, we’d be looking at a package from a team with 15th overall 2023, 47th overall 2023, 2024 1st, 2024 2nd for a comparable price in just draft picks.

A trade for the Sens would likely look like 20th overall + prospect + player.

 

[DaveMatthew]

516.69 for DBC this summer in known picks based on the chart, ~550 in total.

Based on the chart, which is what it is, not agreeing or disagreeing with it, we’d be looking at a package from a team with 15th overall 2023, 47th overall 2023, 2024 1st, 2024 2nd for a comparable price in just draft picks.

A trade for the Sens would likely look like 20th overall + prospect + player.

The reality is, we're 100% going to lose on "value", when analyzing the return at the time of the trade, if Debrincat is traded for a picks-based package.

We're not recouping enough value to make up for 7oa.

The best-case scenario remains that he re-signs. The second best-case scenario is that a change of scenery type trade becomes available (i.e. DBC for Weegar). The worst-case scenario is that we have to move him for picks and prospects.

 

[Golden_Jet]

There will be but none that will be desperate for a Stanley Cup. Debrincats value plumets as of Friday at 4 PM. We have lived this with Stone, Duchene etc. Selling him for pennies at the dollar isnt something I am interested in when this team is years away from competing for a cup.

I want a cup they have to start to manage assets way better. Its been a disaster in that regard. Thats why they werent capable of trading for Chychrun. I want whoever takes over this team to have some flexibility. Poile is doing it in Nashville right now, heck they have a better chance to make the playoffs than Ottawa.




Because the trade deadline is in 4 days and everyone is loading up. How is this even a question? You get him for two guaranteed runs not 1.

Lol, no GMs desperate to win a cup in the summer. Really you believe that.

 

[slamigo]

If they squeak into the playoffs, you think there’s no value in having the kids get a taste of what the real season feels like? Even if the Sens get destroyed in the first round, there’s genuine value of getting that experience. They go into summer training knowing how much work there’s still to do

Getting humiliated, embarrassed and swept in four games may not be the moral booster you think it is.

 

[stempniaksen]

I don't want Dorion being the one doing the buying at this point, but there's absolutely an argument to be made that buying makes sense to give our young players a taste of meaningful games down the stretch.

Chabot is in his 6th season, Brady in his 5th. Neither have played meaningful games at the NHL level. We need to 1) give these guys the opportunity to learn what playing meaningful hockey means and 2) see how they react to playing games that actually matter

 

[DaveMatthew]

Getting humiliated, embarrassed and swept in four games may not be the moral booster you think it is.

If this team miraculously squeaks in, it means they would've been playing at a 105-110pt pace for ~60 straight games. There's no scenario, even if we got swept by Boston, where that type of run wouldn't be a massive boost for this team.

It's very unlikely, but it'd be a great step.

 

[Micklebot]

516.69 for DBC this summer in known picks based on the chart, ~550 in total.

Based on the chart, which is what it is, not agreeing or disagreeing with it, we’d be looking at a package from a team with 15th overall 2023, 47th overall 2023, 2024 1st, 2024 2nd for a comparable price in just draft picks.

A trade for the Sens would likely look like 20th overall + prospect + player.

Worth considering the depth of the respective draft years, this year seems much better a draft than last year.

 

[stempniaksen]

If this team miraculously squeaks in, it means they would've been playing at a 105-110pt pace for ~60 straight games. There's no scenario, even if we got swept by Boston, where that type of run wouldn't be a massive boost for this team.

You said this better than I could have.

There's also the fact this team is 2-1 against the Bruins (only loss coming with Mando in nets) and maybe it wouldn't be the bloodbath many would expect.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I don't want Dorion being the one doing the buying at this point, but there's absolutely an argument to be made that buying makes sense to give our young players a taste of meaningful games down the stretch.

Chabot is in his 6th season, Brady in his 5th. Neither have played meaningful games at the NHL level. We need to 1) give these guys the opportunity to learn what playing meaningful hockey means and 2) see how they react to playing games that actually matter

If they want to play meaningful games they should have led their team to a better position entering the deadline.

Besides adding a 2nd/3rd pairing D is hardly going to vault this team into a playoff spot.

Dumb reasoning for wasting a good asset on a player when it isn't going to make a difference this late in the season.

 

[BondraTime]

The reality is, we're 100% going to lose on "value", when analyzing the return at the time of the trade, if Debrincat is traded for a picks-based package.

We're not recouping enough value to make up for 7oa.

The best-case scenario remains that he re-signs. The second best-case scenario is that a change of scenery type trade becomes available (i.e. DBC for Weegar). The worst-case scenario is that we have to move him for picks and prospects.

It’s going to be re-sign or trade for a ready to go now player/package.

The issue I’m having, is that DeBrincat is worth a lot less for getting guys like Meier, DBC, Duchene, Stone Chychrun, etc. than the stuff we traded for him. The best NHL player anyone of the returned is Zetterlund. That’s what bothers me. The shortsightedness. Trading for a guy, without an extension, shouldn’t be happening with us. If we get DBC signed, Bob’s your uncle, but it’s the short sightedness that bothers me, as it’s been something happening every year for the past 7/8.

Change of scenery, with a soon to be UFA isn’t really tested waters. There’s basically the Huberdeau trade, which I personally don’t think will be a norm in the league.

 

[stempniaksen]

If they want to play meaningful games they should have led their team to a better position entering the deadline.

Besides adding a 2nd/3rd pairing D is hardly going to vault this team into a playoff spot.

Dumb reasoning for wasting a good asset on a player when it isn't going to make a difference this late in the season.

We clearly disagree on the bolded, which is fine.

The team has vaulted themselves into playoff discussion without any additions, I think it's premature to say it wouldn't make a difference.

 

[PlayItAgain]

Getting humiliated, embarrassed and swept in four games may not be the moral booster you think it is.

Funny I remember the Sens embarrassing and fully overwhelming young Crosby and the Pens in his 1st year in the playoffs. The following year the Pens knew what to expect in the playoffs and were a different looking team. I think you’re completely underrating what value there is for our kids to get a feeling for the playoffs. Better to do it this year, rather than next

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Making the playoffs would be huge.

We gotta go for it.

Don't go crazy but just don't sell anyone except Talbot.

No, no we don't "gotta go for it".

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

We clearly disagree on the bolded, which is fine.

The team has vaulted themselves into playoff discussion without any additions, I think it's premature to say it wouldn't make a difference.

It will make a difference .. will it make enough of a difference .. We are still chasing with several teams to leap frog. It would make more sense to me if we were 6 pts ahead of where we are now... Say where Buffalo is .. then its legit. Other teams have recognized it .Look at Nashville a couple games in hand 6 points out and selling. Sure the experience would be good .. but the likelihood isn't very good imo.

 

[DaveMatthew]

It’s going to be re-sign or trade for a ready to go now player/package.

The issue I’m having, is that DeBrincat is worth a lot less for getting guys like Meier, DBC, Duchene, Stone Chychrun, etc. than the stuff we traded for him. The best NHL player anyone of the returned is Zetterlund. That’s what bothers me. The shortsightedness. Trading for a guy, without an extension, shouldn’t be happening with us. If we get DBC signed, Bob’s your uncle, but it’s the short sightedness that bothers me, as it’s been something happening every year for the past 7/8.

Change of scenery, with a soon to be UFA isn’t really tested waters. There’s basically the Huberdeau trade, which I personally don’t think will be a norm in the league.

I think that's because the teams trading the player prioritized picks and prospects. Their time horizon is 3-4 years. We don't know what they would've gotten if they prioritized NHL players as the return.

There are lots of non-Huberdeau type examples:

Dougie Hamilton for Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin
Jeff Carter for Jake Voracek
Jeff Carter for Jack Johnson
Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones
Nick Foligno for Marc Methot
PK Subban for Shea Weber
Dany Heatley for Milan Michalek
Tyler Seguin for Louie Eriksson
Justin Faulk for Joel Edmundson
Derick Brassard for Mika Zibanejad
Jordan Staal for Brandon Sutter

I won't go back and look at every piece and contract statuses for all of these, but NHL player for NHL player trades do happen.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I’m not sure the posters who are clamouring for PD to trade to bring in players for a playoff run have actually looked at the murderers’ row of teams in the East. If by some miracle the Sens squeaked into the playoffs, it would be a swift and brutal exit. Not worth giving up any assets for. Also, the chances of even making the post season are ridiculously small.

There's a lot of value in exposing your young stars to the playoffs. Whether they get swept or lose in 7, experience is paramount for this team to take the next step.