Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[Micklebot]

The got a boat load of pieces that may or may not pan out in 3-4 years. San Jose is just starting their rebuild. Like we were in 2018. It's a good deal for them. They want to bottom out. They want futures and no salary coming back.

We're in a much different spot. That deal does nothing for us.

We need NHL players in return if we have to trade DBC. Those players will only be available in the summer. Carolina is trading roster players right now. Neither is Dallas, or LA, or Seattle. They'd be much more likely to do it in June though.

They got good value, and anything that doesn't help us now could be flipped for something that does in the offseason.

Two pretty good prospect, a first and a second, then there's the 8+ mil in budget room that opens up

There's a lot you can do with that return which arguably makes us a better team, maybe we sign a UFA and flip the pieces for Chychrun, Weegar or whoever

It becomes Chychrun or Weegar and say Mayfield

For

DeBrincat

Then next year,

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Greig-Stützle-Giroux
Crookshank-Pinto-Joseph
Kelly-Kastelic-Gauthier

Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Chychrun/Weegar
Brannstrom-Mayfield

We lose a bit of scoring up front but the backend becomes significantly stronger

Trades can be about filling a need directly, or about acquiring the resources needed to get what you need, and resources includes room in the budget.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I mean you clearly cant be objective here. You dont think flipping that amount of assets lands one of those types of players?

There will be more teams available for a trade in the summer, if Sens do not sign him. I would wait.

 

[GCK]

The year of DBC, if he is traded, is literally completely meaningless. Same way the 100 games of Duchene was completely meaningless. Has zero value wahtsoever for the Sens. Team spun their tires, and will have the return they get for him.

Gave up - 7th, 39th, future 3rd.

For the deal to be worth it, what we receive will need to be better than what we gave up


In which case we will be perfectly fine with what we gave up

The addition of Debrincat, while a bad hockey move IMO, was a very good business move. The excitement generated by the addition of Debrincat and Giroux can’t be underestimated from a ticket selling perspective.

 

[Samboni]

Greenway for formenton?

He seems to have fallen out of favour in Minny and formenton has baggage

If Formenton gets convicted, the US may not allow him in the country,

 

[Burrowsaurus]

God someone gives us a new rumor so we can stop talking about the DBC trade for the 7th time this week.

Brassard said they’ve earned the right to add a player.

 

[Mingus Dew]

The addition of Debrincat, while a bad hockey move IMO, was a very good business move. The excitement generated by the addition of Debrincat and Giroux can’t be underestimated from a ticket selling perspective.

For Dorion there was no tomorrow. A 7OA draft pick was worth much less to him personally than an impact player that could contribute immediately.

He was not and is not incentivized to prioritize the long term competitiveness of this team.

 

[Micklebot]

The addition of Debrincat, while a bad hockey move IMO, was a very good business move. The excitement generated by the addition of Debrincat and Giroux can’t be underestimated from a ticket selling perspective.

That's fair, though arguably you could have gotten the same excitement by acquiring Chychrun with 7oa, he might have been a better hockey acquisition.

 

[DaveMatthew]

They got good value, and anything that doesn't help us now could be flipped for something that does in the offseason.

Two pretty good prospect, a first and a second, then there's the 8+ mil in budget room that opens up

There's a lot you can do with that return which arguably makes us a better team, maybe we sign a UFA and flip the pieces for Chychrun, Weegar or whoever

It becomes Chychrun or Weegar and say Mayfield

For

DeBrincat

Then next year,

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Greig-Stützle-Giroux
Crookshank-Pinto-Joseph
Kelly-Kastelic-Gauthier

Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Chychrun/Weegar
Brannstrom-Mayfield

We lose a bit of scoring up front but the backend becomes significantly stronger

Trades can be about filling a need directly, or about acquiring the resources needed to get what you need, and resources includes room in the budget.

The idea that we can just flip the assets is great in theory, but not always in practice.

When Calgary had to trade Tkachuk, they didn't trade him for assets and then flip those assets for what they really wanted. They just went out and got the players they wanted, who could help them now. Florida, who disappointed in the playoffs, wanted to shake things up.

I imagine that's what we'll look to do with Debrincat, if it comes to it. I'm sure there'll be a few teams looking to shake things up after they lose in the 1st or 2nd round.

Besides, what makes anyone think that the market is hot for Debrincat right now? Who'd be interested? Maybe Carolina? There'd be way more suitors in the summer.

The potential of doing a money in and money out hockey deal is much greater in June. San Jose wasn't interested in that type of deal. We probably will be. Two completely different situations.

Also, we're not a UFA destination. Giroux came here because he's from here. I wouldn't count on us ever being a player in that market. We're not going to sign Mayfield.

 

[guyzeur]

God someone gives us a new rumor so we can stop talking about the DBC trade for the 7th time this week.

But he was traded for a 7th

 

[bert]

There will be more teams available for a trade in the summer, if Sens do not sign him. I would wait.

There will be but none that will be desperate for a Stanley Cup. Debrincats value plumets as of Friday at 4 PM. We have lived this with Stone, Duchene etc. Selling him for pennies at the dollar isnt something I am interested in when this team is years away from competing for a cup.

I want a cup they have to start to manage assets way better. Its been a disaster in that regard. Thats why they werent capable of trading for Chychrun. I want whoever takes over this team to have some flexibility. Poile is doing it in Nashville right now, heck they have a better chance to make the playoffs than Ottawa.

The idea that we can just flip the assets is great in theory, but not always in practice.

When Calgary had to trade Tkachuk, they didn't trade him for assets and then flip those assets for what they really wanted. They just went out and got the players they wanted, who could help them now. Florida, who disappointed in the playoffs, wanted to shake things up.

I imagine that's what we'll look to do with Debrincat, if it comes to it. I'm sure there'll be a few teams looking to shake things up after they lose in the 1st or 2nd round.

Besides, what makes anyone think that the market is hot for Debrincat right now? Who'd be interested? Maybe Carolina? There'd be way more potential suitors in the summer.

The potential of doing a money in and money out hockey deal is much greater in June. San Jose wasn't interested in that type of deal. We probably will be. Two completely different situations.

Also, we're not a UFA destination. Giroux came here because he's from here. I wouldn't count on us ever being a player in that market. We're not going to sign Mayfield.

Because the trade deadline is in 4 days and everyone is loading up. How is this even a question? You get him for two guaranteed runs not 1.

 

[Samboni]

pls do something

Might have to wait until Wednesday. According to Bruce, Dorion wants to where the team is at on March 1.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Because the trade deadline is in 4 days and everyone is loading up. How is this even a question? You get him for two guaranteed runs not 1.

Everyone is not loading up. A few teams in the East are loading up. Who's left? Carolina?

The majority of the league is doing nothing. Teams like Nashville, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Columbus, Detroit, Florida, etc are not looking to add substantial players and salary on Friday. But many of them will be in June.

 

[bert]

If Formenton gets convicted, the US may not allow him in the country,

Well they tried once, it didnt go anywhere. Its now 8 months later. Nothing, all the other players that had contracts are playing. I wouldnt trade him, I think he is coming back assuming the sens have new ownership and management. If he is cleared and they are still here id refuse to report and wait for a trade.

 

[guyzeur]

I also have been wondering if DeBrincat is available myself. His body language since Dorion said he wasn’t going anywhere has been less than positive. Perhaps when we acquired him Dorion was green light for a contract extension and in now going to use that money elsewhere.

Like did PD play the board and mortgage the future to accelerate the rebuild and maybe save his job? Could Dorion be like Kuato from Total Recall and actually be mostly torso brain? That has to be the next level after galaxy brain.

Saying that normally means he will be traded.

Do we all agree (like 95%) on this? If he's not signed by TDL, we're going to be doomed!

 

[bert]

Everyone is not loading up. A few teams in the East are loading up. Who's left? Carolina?

The majority of the league is doing nothing. Teams like Nashville, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Columbus, Detroit, etc are not looking to add substantial players and salary on Friday. They will be in June.

They are 2nd in the NHL man. Pacioretty is out for the season. Yes everyone is loading up they are competing with. Cant be serious with thist stuff. Yeah teams that have no chance to win arent loading up. Just like the sens shouldnt be doing.

 

[Micklebot]

The idea that we can just flip the assets is great in theory, but not always in practice.

When Calgary had to trade Tkachuk, they didn't trade him for assets and then flip those assets for what they really wanted. They just went out and got the players they wanted, who could help them now.

I imagine that's what we'll look to do with Debrincat, if it comes to it.

Besides, what makes anyone think that the market is hot for Debrincat right now? Who'd be interested? Maybe Carolina? There'd be way more potential suitors in the summer.

Also, we're not a UFA destination. Giroux came here because he's from here. I wouldn't count on us ever being a player in that market. We're not going to sign Mayfield.

I think the importance is that you be open to a trade even if it's for futures if the return is right. Nobody should be saying trade him no matter what, but if we get offered a return similar to what Meier got, I think that's something you strongly consider.

If a team offers you roster player 1 for 1 type of deal that makes sense, obviously that's preferable to trading for futures and then flipping those, what I'm contesting though is that futures don't help us, of course they do, futures are what we used to acquire him in the first place, budget room helps too, we're pretty tight to the cap next year, the flexibility of opening up 8 mil can't be ignored.

 

[DaveMatthew]

They are 2nd in the NHL man. Pacioretty is out for the season. Yes everyone is loading up they are competing with. Cant be serious with thist stuff. Yeah teams that have no chance to win arent loading up. Just like the sens shouldnt be doing.

Who are you getting from Carolina that can help this team over the next couple of season?

Look, if Carolina says we'll trade you Jarvis and Chatfield, by all means. Do it. But if they offer a 2023 1st, Suzuki and Rees? No thanks. I'll wait until the summer and see which NHL ready players are available then.

I have no doubt that a 1st and B-level prospects will still be available in June, in a worst-case scenario. And I'd rather wait and look for a hockey deal and sacrifice that extra 2nd or 3rd I might be able to get this week.

Besides, there's a decent chance it's a new regime making this decision. So I'd much prefer leave it up to them than Dorion.

 

[bert]

Who are you getting from Carolina that can help this team over the next couple of season?

Look, if Carolina says we'll trade you Jarvis and Chatfield, by all means. Do it. But if they offer a 2023 1st, Suzuki and Rees? No thanks. I'll wait until the summer and see which NHL ready players are available then.

Jesus christ.

A comparable package is right in this thread. Stop shorting it.

1st, 1st, Suzuki, Seeley (very good 20 year old AHL D man), one of Rees, Gunler, Pomaranov.

That is a comparable package to what San Jose got. Those young players would help, the sens have Gambrell as their third line center in a must win game tonight. The cap flexibility helps. Having extra firsts help if they want to trade for someone. The ask on Chychrun is two firsts and a prospect.....

Scoring wingers are the easiest thing to get. The sens dont need a 40 goal guy in his spot they need a 20/20 burner.

 

[GCK]

That's fair, though arguably you could have gotten the same excitement by acquiring Chychrun with 7oa, he might have been a better hockey acquisition.

Chychrun had a higher price and was going to miss time so I get why they didn’t move for him then. I’ve been on record saying the Debrincat trade was a mistake so any of the available D would have had me more excited.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Jesus christ.

A comparable package is right in this thread. Stop shorting it.

1st, 1st, Suzuki, Seeley (very good 20 year old AHL D man), one of Rees, Gunler, Pomaranov.

That is a comparable package to what San Jose got. Those young players would help, the sens have Gambrell as their third line center in a must win game tonight. The cap flexibility helps. Having extra firsts help if they want to trade for someone. The ask on Chychrun is two firsts and a prospect.....

I would pass on that trade.

The first 1st will be in the late 20's. The 2nd 1st is much more likely to be a 2nd round pick (if it has a similar condition as the second pick NJ sent to San Jose). Seeley is equivalent to a JBD/Thomson. And none of the other prospects would move the needle for me.

I would have made that trade with where the team was 3 years ago. Not today.

That conditional 1st is the deadline "premium". I'd hold out until the summer and risk the conditional 1st in hopes that a hockey trade becomes available, or that Ryan Reynolds can schmooze Debrincat. Worst case, if a ready player is not available and he wants out, you'll still be most likely be able to settle for one 1st + a couple of prospects like Suzuki and Seeley.

 

[Sens Vader]

I think its a maintenance day but before that's confirmed:

 

[Hale The Villain]

Trade deadline is silly season where teams throw away draft picks like they are trash because they think they are one acquisition away from the cup.

Teams are typically a lot more stingy about trading picks, especially 1sts, around the time of the draft when that's what the focus is.

If we're talking about pure value, no question we'd get more trading DeBrincat now than in the summer.

 

[bert]

I would pass on that trade.

The first 1st will be in the late 20's. The 2nd 1st is much more likely to be a 2nd round pick (if it has a similar condition as the second pick NJ sent to San Jose). Seeley is equivalent to a JBD/Thomson. And none of the other prospects would move the needle for me.

I would have made that trade with where the team was 3 years ago. Not today.

That conditional 1st is the deadline "premium". I'd hold out until the summer and risk the conditional 1st in hopes that a hockey trade becomes available. Worst case, if a ready player is not available, you'll still be most likely be able to settle for one 1st + a couple of prospects.

Really? They just have to make the conference finals once in the next two years. Id say for them that's about a 70% probability. The sens got Stutzle with similar odds. They are 2nd in the NHL and would be adding Debrincat.

I like Seeley more he is way more heady and mobile, think he is going to be a player in the league. I am a big Rees fan personally but think Suzuki also will be an NHL player smart still physically developing.

I think this gives the sens the assets to land Chychrun and replenish the prospect pool. If Formenton comes back its a massive win of a deal for the organization. If not then they use the 4 million they have saved to find another forward.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Who are you getting from Carolina that can help this team over the next couple of season?

Look, if Carolina says we'll trade you Jarvis and Chatfield, by all means. Do it. But if they offer a 2023 1st, Suzuki and Rees? No thanks. I'll wait until the summer and see which NHL ready players are available then.

I have no doubt that a 1st and B-level prospects will still be available in June, in a worst-case scenario. And I'd rather wait and look for a hockey deal and sacrifice that extra 2nd or 3rd I might be able to get this week.

Besides, there's a decent chance it's a new regime making this decision. So I'd much prefer leave it up to them than Dorion.

It is possible to make more than one trade in a summer.

If all Carolina has to offer is a big value of package of prospects/picks ala New Jersey, you take the most value you can in that form and then trade prospects/picks in the offseason to add immediate help if you can't find it via UFA.

 

[Micklebot]

Chychrun had a higher price and was going to miss time so I get why they didn’t move for him then. I’ve been on record saying the Debrincat trade was a mistake so any of the available D would have had me more excited.

The price we heard for Chychrun was something like three 1st or equivalents, 7 OA obviously weighs in a fair bit higher than your typical first from a contender, so I don't think the price was in reality that far apart, I suspect us trying to force Zaitsev into any trade was probably a stumbling block as well

I get why we didn't pull the trigger on him, being out injured to start the year probably played a role too, and being a lefty instead of what we really need in a righty did too, but that's in the past now.

I like DeBrincat, adding him and Giroux at the same time complicated matters. I love Giroux, was my favourite non-Sens player prior to the signing, so I do that again every time, but maybe adding an equivalent RHD would have been ideally the better move, idk.

Timing is everything, the piece you need today might not be available until tomorrow, conversely, if the piece you need tomorrow is available today, do yo pass on it and hope it comes up again? Fate rovours the bold, sometimes you got to take that leap of faith...