Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[bert]

Copp would be terrific but yea he's from Michigan area with 10 team.

Pay a little extra for Konecny.

Ott: Konecny
Det: DeBrincat
Phi: 17th overall + Berggren/Rasmussen

Id rather have 17th OA and Rasmussen than Konecny. He gets hurt way too much dont see his body holding up on a long run. Rasmussen is just starting to come into his own big guy with a scoring touch tough to play against. Id love if they could get him.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Konecny will be more in demand, trust me. Also from Ottawa area, will cost less. Around 7 mil.

Ottawa can go more depth:

Ott: Laughton + Kubalik + 3rd
Det: DeBrincat
Phi: 17th overall

Value isn't amazing, but the key is 3 million for Laughton for 3 years. Kubalik for 2.5

That leaves off another 3-4 million to use which all could have been used on DeBrincat. Let's say Mayfield for 4.5 or for a number 1 goalie.

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Kubalik-Stutzle-Giroux
Laughton-Pinto-Joseph
Greig-Kastelic-idk

Chabot-Mayfield
Sanderson-Zub
Chychrun-Brannstrom

If the stars in Stutzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris shine. Isn't that a spectacular D group? Especially if Sanderson takes another significant step.

Problems, problems, problems though. Kubalik is a nice piece, I'd like him, but...he fell off a cliff, then rebounded last year to respectable numbers and is about to be a UFA in a year. How much do you pay him? Suddenly, he might not be so attractive.

Laughton is good, but are we getting good value here? Laughton and a pending UFA and a 3rd for one of the top 20 goal scorers in the league.

And then....you MUST keep in mind that we'll be fighting for the final spot in the East next year and you just helped one of the teams that'll be going for it against us.

 

[HSF]

The point was that people on here shit on Tkachuk until he demonstrated things at the NHL level that got them to change their perspective and opinion. No amount of arguing was going to convince his critics that even though he scored 8 goals in his draft year that he was going to score 30+ goals at the NHL level. Tkachuk needed to prove his critics wrong.

Even after demonstrating solid production at the NHL level, there were still people arguing that Zadina was going to be better in the long run, and that they were going to cap Tkachuk's upside to around a 50-60 point player. I argued with people that he could have Jamie Benn like production, and they thought that was beyond him, until what he demonstrated this season.

With Boucher, no one is changing their opinion on him, until he proves something to them. If Boucher spends the majority of the season in the AHL and puts up solid numbers, he will win over a few critics. Once he cracks the NHL, if he puts up some decent numbers he will win over a few more critics. The point is that he will need to demonstrate a lot for a while before the majority of Boucher critics will change their tune on him.

The Tkachuk and Boucher comparisons are so lazy

Tkachuk by most people in the hockey world was a highly rated prospect at the draft and only improved after

Boucher was not and his numbers post draft are very very concerning

 

[R2010]

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

View attachment 718224

That seems obvious to me. IMO he's done in Ottawa and parting ways is likely a mutual goal, if he is allowed back in the league.

 

[scout20]

DBC extended to WIld for Marco Rossi. The wild get a much needed scoring threat in DBC The wild should have cap space with Dumba 6 million a year contract expiring. The Sens get a great prospect in Rossi while saving some money to eventually sign Sanderson long term.

 

[Stylizer1]

It's pretty clear we don't have a threat on D yet and with Debrincat wanting out it seems like an easy solution to swap salaries and bring the kid home.

We still need a reliable goaler and I'm not sure Cat would get us that but getting considerably better on D is a must for this team moving forward.

Since the confirmation of the winning bid the media has been alluding to the fact that Patrick Roy coincidentally said he will not be back behind the bench for the Remparts and is looking to come back to the NHL.

I think it's a perfect match both Karlsson and Roy coming in now that the Melnyk era are over.

Just think of the points Tkachuk, Stu, Giroux, and Batherson could put up with a guy like that on D.

It would allow Chabot to play less minutes and be effective and would give Sanderson a true superstar to learn from.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Kerfoot could be a pretty good middle-six LW for us, especially with Pinto. Don’t hate it.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Totally unrelated but Sens and Karlsson in the same list

 

[Cosmix]

That seems obvious to me. IMO he's done in Ottawa and parting ways is likely a mutual goal, if he is allowed back in the league.

To my knowledge there is no publicly available info on the NHL issuing a formal ban on signing a contract with Formenton nor any other player that has been associated with the London incident. There has only been Dorion's statement which was not very detailed.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I just hope EK doesn’t waive his NMC for Toronto or some shit.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

To my knowledge there is no publicly available info on the NHL issuing a formal ban on signing a contract with Formenton nor any other player that has been associated with the London incident. There has only been Dorion's statement which was not very detailed.

There is not. That was just my own speculation. I'll bet that if/when he does come back, it will be elsewhere.

 

[Ouroboros]

You guys have got to let this Formenton thing go.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Formenton got outplayed by Chlapik on the same team in Switzerland. Let’s go after that stud.

 

[Big Muddy]

DBC extended to WIld for Marco Rossi. The wild get a much needed scoring threat in DBC The wild should have cap space with Dumba 6 million a year contract expiring. The Sens get a great prospect in Rossi while saving some money to eventually sign Sanderson long term.

Minnesota have big cap issues. Just took a cursory look and they have about $9 m to sign 8 players. Dumba is UFA so he's already not included in those numbers.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Samboni]

Why are multiple people suggesting trading Cat to our division rival?

Trade him out West or in a different division at least.

If Detroit offers a much better deal than everyone else, by all means take it. Otherwise hell no. It would take a big overpayment for me to be willing to do that.

The trading partners are very limited, Pierre won’t be in a strong position when he makes this trade so he’ll take the best deal no matter where DBC ends up.

 

[PlayersLtd]

It's almost like people evaluate the player's play! If Boucher plays well I'm sure most people will be happy about that and he'll convince some skeptics. So far he just hasn't done that. People look at his play in NCAA and OHL games and feel justifiably underwhelmed.

Play well: get kudos.

Under perform: get criticized.

It's not some conspiracy against Tyler Boucher.

I think what his point was is that people tend to ignore context and simplify it to a "Play well:get Kudos, Under perform: get criticized" dichotomy. It's not that simple.

In Tkachuk's case his season at BU did not foreshadow to the casual observer that he would be a goal scorer or even a big point producer at the NHL level. However, in context he didn't have a centreman that could keep up or compliment his game so his numbers weren't flattering and some people saw more potential because of this. PD said this specifically in an interview two weeks ago. This is the difference between a pro scout and the rest of us (me anyway...), they are better at identifying the context which may cause a player to be better (or worse) than his stats or day by day play might suggest.

For Boucher I would say that that the context is injuries. Everyone is just saying he is underachieving but if he could stay healthy I don't think he would have remotely the same negativity surrounding him. He has bounced around like a ping pong ball during his formative years and is always recovering from injury. This is debilitating for a young players trajectory but if he can stay healthy I think we will see the athleticism and consistency begin to show and he might not look like the reach at 10 that everyone is upset about.

I'm not trying to wade into the Boucher debate, I'm as concerned as anyone but mainly just because of his injury history and less so because of the play we're seeing. We've all seen the flashes of talent.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Well sure, nobody will change their mind with zero new information.

That's more to do with people still having high hopes for Zadina, and a few outliers that refuse to acknowledge Tkachuk was better than they though, but a lot of people did admit they were wrong about Tkachuck after his first year.


The thing is he's had plenty of opportunities to prove doubters wrong, it doesn't have to happen at the NHL level, people shit on Norris after the Karlsson trade then he had a good season in college before getting hurt, followed that up with a good season in the AHL and translated Into a good season in the NHL, people saw progression and changed the tune fairly quickly.

If all you're trying to say is until Boucher actually plays well at any level people won't change their tune, then sure, but he's failed to impress across two seasons and two leagues, given a reason people can change their tune but he's done nothing to give anyone reason to change their tune.

What I am suggesting is that people on here are not going to be swayed by theoretical arguments.

Boucher is being criticized for his performance since being drafted, which is predominantly reduced to his overall production. There are some people on here that see potential in Boucher based on his play and believe he is being heavily underestimated,, but those perspectives are based on very theoretical and speculative arguments.

The people that are critical of Boucher are not going to be influenced by such arguments, and the only thing that might change their perspective is his on ice performance in the future, and predominantly what his overall production is.

I used the Tkachuk example to illustrate a point. Someone could have analyzed Tkachuk's play prior to entering the NHL, and made a compelling, but also theoretical and speculative argument that he could be a 30+ goal scorer, and that it was even highly probable that he would become that. But the point would still have stood that the majority of people would have dismissed the perspective and focused on the 8 goals he scored and made an inference from that of limited scoring upside at the NHL level.

The primary point here is that even if someone has well thought out, complex rationale as to why Boucher might have more upside at the NHL level than a lot of people on here think, that it won't get much buy in from people on here. That for anyone who does hold such a position, that it is best to just accept that Boucher is going to be criticized for a while. That maybe in the long run, there will be merit to these theoretical and speculative perspectives, but that the majority of people on here are only going to believe it when and if they see it.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

View attachment 718224

He's probably not playing in the NHL ever again and if he does, it ain't going to be in Canada.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

What I am suggesting is that people on here are not going to be swayed by theoretical arguments.

Boucher is being criticized for his performance since being drafted, which is predominantly reduced to his overall production. There are some people on here that see potential in Boucher based on his play and believe he is being heavily underestimated,, but those perspectives are based on very theoretical and speculative arguments.

The people that are critical of Boucher are not going to be influenced by such arguments, and the only thing that might change their perspective is his on ice performance in the future, and predominantly what his overall production is.

I used the Tkachuk example to illustrate a point. Someone could have analyzed Tkachuk's play prior to entering the NHL, and made a compelling, but also theoretical and speculative argument that he could be a 30+ goal scorer, and that it was even highly probable that he would become that. But the point would still have stood that the majority of people would have dismissed the perspective and focused on the 8 goals he scored and made an inference from that of limited scoring upside at the NHL level.

The primary point here is that even if someone has well thought out, complex rationale as to why Boucher might have more upside at the NHL level than a lot of people on here think, that it won't get much buy in from people on here. That for anyone who does hold such a position, that it is best to just accept that Boucher is going to be criticized for a while. That maybe in the long run, there will be merit to these theoretical and speculative perspectives, but that the majority of people on here are only going to believe it when and if they see it.

How many goals/points do you project for Boucher at the NHL level?

 

[Ouroboros]

Are there any players that have produced as little as Tyler Boucher did in his D+1 and D+2 seasons who have gone on to have notable NHL careers? Talking about guys that played 250+ games and offered at least some value with their gloves still on.

I can't find many. I guess Barclay Goodrow would be the high-end outcome here, and even he had a substantial production edge on Boucher over the time frame I referred to above [.85PPG vs .69PPG]. Matt Martin might be another one, but he's never even hit 20 points in a season. Actually, David Clarkson just came to mind so maybe he's the best case scenario? Either way, the hit-rate on players that profile like this has to be insanely low.

Somewhere along the line the 'theoretical' arguments have to take a backseat to the observable facts. Brady Tkachuk was a high end producer at every level - U17, U18, U18 NTDP, U20. He even had a good freshman year in the NCAA other than an artificially low goal total driven by a low shooting percentage. Boucher is not that. He has almost no track record of production at any level and was generally considered to be a 2nd/3rd round pick because of it.

But wait - not only does he not produce, but he's also injury prone. Nice. So what is the argument for this guy?

At this point we'd probably be lucky if he turned into Ben Eager.

 

[Hun]

Are there any players that have produced as little as Tyler Boucher did in his D+1 and D+2 seasons who have gone on to have notable NHL careers?

​

Zach Hyman

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Formenton got outplayed by Chlapik on the same team in Switzerland. Let’s go after that stud.

I always like Chlapik!

 

[JD1]

Trade Debrincat for picks attack the UFA market.

I would do Debrincat with Detroit for 17 th OA 41 OA and Andrew Copp.

Attack the Ufa market.

Come on Bert. The Senators attacking the UFA market isn't a winning strategy for us. Never has been. We're not a destination. We're just coming out of being Siberia after a long rebuild.

We simply don't get quality UFA players at market. We either have to overpay or dumpster dive what's left by July 4.