Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[Bileur]

you dont even know if they would or wont be complimentary because they were never tried.

and having a goal scorer who can score from distance and find dead spots with the very best in the sport, paired with a player who can challenge 2 or 3 players at once and come away with it, is simplistic but the definition of complimentary. Stutzle pulls them out of position and finds a player who can fire lasers from anywhere is hard to control.

Gretzky-Kurri
Backstrom-Ovechkin
Spezza-Heatley
Kane-Debrinacat

tons more, its all the same basic formula that works.

I know for a fact that Brady and Timmy works well and are very complimentary. Why do I need to reinvent the wheel?

The second paragraph is exactly what I’m talking about. You want Timmy out there opening up space for DeBrincat. You’re right, there’s no doubt Timmy would open space for Cat and I’m sure it would work pretty well. I want to maximize Timmy, not use Timmy to elevate Cat. For that, I want Brady out there drawing attention in front of the net, drawing attention of the most physical defender on the ice, digging pucks out of corners, creating havoc and punching in the teeth of people taking runs at Tim.

Brady opens up a ton of space for Tim to skate around and do his thing.

There are fewer examples of power forwards opening up space like that because power forwards of Brady’s calibre are so rare. When they exist, it’s a beautiful thing.

Shanahan-Yzerman.
Gillies-Trottier-Bossy
Naslund-X-Bertuzzi
Tkachuk-Zhamnov-Selanne
Tkachuk-Roenick

Even for some of the combos you proposed, their teams try to fit in a physical presence to help make space.

Tikkanen/Semenko-Gretzky-Kurri
Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson
Maroon/Kassian/Hyman-McDavid-Drai


Heck even in Ottawa we’d see Heatley-Spezza-Neil when things were getting spicy.

Tkachuk is on another level from some of these guys, he can produce offensively at DeBrincat’s level while providing that physical presence. It’s only natural he rides with Stutzle.

I think DBC is actually a decent defensive player and with Stutzle they could have been +10 or 20 if they got going, which could have meant playoffs. instead they never even tried it and we got two lines who couldn't outscore their defensive woes and no playoffs.

and even if it didn't work out, not trying it all is what i really find fault with. and now dbc will probably get jettisoned and we'll never know.

boston line is hella dominant two way, never been a minus i think, our top line has got a long way to go. and DBC is closer to Alfie than Brady in playstyle and defensive play.

Listen, I agree DBC decent defensively.

That said, come on man, DBC is closer to Batherson defensively than he is to Alfie. He’s decent, nothing special. Alfie was a special two way player.

Some of Cat’s terrible +/- is due to his line, but he’s part of that too. If he couldn’t avoid getting himself to -31 on the season, I don’t understand how you can seriously think that he would have had a +13 to + 23 impact on Stutzle’s plus minus. That’s ridiculous.

 

[JD1]

The line was -31 at even strength he did not drive the play. They were the weakest link on the team. These playoffs are proving that players like him aren't successful. Fast, heavy hockey is winning. Small players are not thriving. Marner is a way better play driver and a much better defensive player and even he struggled.

Sure but the caveat to that is his opposite winger spent most of the year dealing with an ankle issue and his center was in over his head the moment Norris got hurt.

So yes, you're right, that's the number but he was also likely the least of the issue defensively on that line

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I know for a fact that Brady and Timmy works well and are very complimentary. Why do I need to reinvent the wheel?

The second paragraph is exactly what I’m talking about. You want Timmy out there opening up space for DeBrincat. You’re right, there’s no doubt Timmy would open space for Cat and I’m sure it would work pretty well. I want to maximize Timmy, not use Timmy to elevate Cat. For that, I want Brady out there drawing attention in front of the net, drawing attention of the most physical defender on the ice, digging pucks out of corners, creating havoc and punching in the teeth of people taking runs at Tim.

Brady opens up a ton of space for Tim to skate around and do his thing.

There are fewer examples of power forwards opening up space like that because power forwards of Brady’s calibre are so rare. When they exist, it’s a beautiful thing.

Shanahan-Yzerman.
Gillies-Trottier-Bossy
Naslund-X-Bertuzzi
Tkachuk-Zhamnov-Selanne
Tkachuk-Roenick

Even for some of the combos you proposed, their teams try to fit in a physical presence to help make space.

Tikkanen/Semenko-Gretzky-Kurri
Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson
Maroon/Kassian/Hyman-McDavid-Drai


Heck even in Ottawa we’d see Heatley-Spezza-Neil when things were getting spicy.

Tkachuk is on another level from some of these guys, he can produce offensively at DeBrincat’s level while providing that physical presence. It’s only natural he rides with Stutzle.




Listen, I agree DBC decent defensively.

That said, come on man, DBC is closer to Batherson defensively than he is to Alfie. He’s decent, nothing special. Alfie was a special two way player.

Some of Cat’s terrible +/- is due to his line, but he’s part of that too. If he couldn’t avoid getting himself to -31 on the season, I don’t understand how you can seriously think that he would have had a +13 to + 23 impact on Stutzle’s plus minus. That’s ridiculous.

I don't think it's about reinventing the wheel more about shaking things up when two very expensive lines weren't coming out on top. If DBC and Stutzle don't work out you go back, but to not even try it when many times a shakeup was warranted makes no sense. Because it's not like we were coasting at the top of the standings, for most of the season we were bottom 10.

Brady does open room for Stutzle but I don't know why you don't believe DBC and his unique tools would do the same. Good players open up room for other players, regardless of play style as long as chemistry is there.

And I want Timmy and DBC opening up room for each other without sacrificing so much on defense. Should have been tried out at the very least. And the bump in plus minus is because Stutzle was playing like a Hart level player for 2/3rds of the season and he still finished a minus player. No way that should have happened and maybe it doesn't happen with DBC.

If we had a top line that could actually create offense without sacrificing defense, we could have ridden them harder while letting the weaker 2nd line take it easy. In the end it could have two lines that were good 5 on 5, instead of zero.

And yea DBC ain't Alfie defensively but Batherson was puke worthy this season and I blame him a lot more for that terrible minus. Everyone playing with Drake was hurting.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Sure but the caveat to that is his opposite winger spent most of the year dealing with an ankle issue and his center was in over his head the moment Norris got hurt.

So yes, you're right, that's the number but he was also likely the least of the issue defensively on that line

100%

 

[Micklebot]

I know for a fact that Brady and Timmy works well and are very complimentary. Why do I need to reinvent the wheel?

To be fair, Brady and Norris (with Batherson) worked pretty damn good too,

The goal isn't to make the best line or to maximize Stü, it's about doing what's best for the team as a whole. Maybe that's keeping Stü with Tkachuk, maybe it's trying Stü with DeBrincat, figuring that out is what training camp is for.

 

[JD1]

To be fair, Brady and Norris (with Batherson) worked pretty damn good too,

The goal isn't to make the best line or to maximize Stü, it's about doing what's best for the team as a whole. Maybe that's keeping Stü with Tkachuk, maybe it's trying Stü with DeBrincat, figuring that out is what training camp is for.

It's an interesting discussion for sure.

Before Batherson hurt his ankle, Thachuk Norris and Batherson were steam rolling opponents 5 on 5. Hard heavy hockey.

If you've got DBC Stuetzle and Giroux on the other line, it's a completely different look

With the Norris injury we never got a chance to really settle in. It's going to be a nightmare for opposing coaches

 

[Bileur]

To be fair, Brady and Norris (with Batherson) worked pretty damn good too,

The goal isn't to make the best line or to maximize Stü, it's about doing what's best for the team as a whole. Maybe that's keeping Stü with Tkachuk, maybe it's trying Stü with DeBrincat, figuring that out is what training camp is for.

It was a good line. Clearly not as good as the 7-18-28 line but good. Maybe overall we end up with a more productive top 6 splitting them but I doubt it.

I think having an elite #1 center greatly increases your chances of winning a cup. I think Norris can be a 1B but doesn’t have the juice to be an elite #1. Hence my objective of maximizing Stutzle.

If Cat is still around at camp, sure we can try things. But I definitely think (1) when bullets fly and points count 7 and 18 should and will be together and (2) the best move would be to trade Cat at the draft.

 

[Bileur]

It's an interesting discussion for sure.

Before Batherson hurt his ankle, Thachuk Norris and Batherson were steam rolling opponents 5 on 5. Hard heavy hockey.

If you've got DBC Stuetzle and Giroux on the other line, it's a completely different look

With the Norris injury we never got a chance to really settle in. It's going to be a nightmare for opposing coaches

It was definitely effective, one good reason to try to get a piece like Crouse, Bertuzzi or Barbashev to play on that second line.

 

[bicboi64]

I want Cat with Stu since that's the best way to get him 40 and maybe 50g. Stu is the best playmaker we have and the closest player in terms of ability to Kane.

 

[Bileur]

I don't think it's about reinventing the wheel more about shaking things up when two very expensive lines weren't coming out on top. If DBC and Stutzle don't work out you go back, but to not even try it when many times a shakeup was warranted makes no sense. Because it's not like we were coasting at the top of the standings, for most of the season we were bottom 10.

Brady does open room for Stutzle but I don't know why you don't believe DBC and his unique tools would do the same. Good players open up room for other players, regardless of play style as long as chemistry is there.

And I want Timmy and DBC opening up room for each other without sacrificing so much on defense. Should have been tried out at the very least. And the bump in plus minus is because Stutzle was playing like a Hart level player for 2/3rds of the season and he still finished a minus player. No way that should have happened and maybe it doesn't happen with DBC.

If we had a top line that could actually create offense without sacrificing defense, we could have ridden them harder while letting the weaker 2nd line take it easy. In the end it could have two lines that were good 5 on 5, instead of zero.

And yea DBC ain't Alfie defensively but Batherson was puke worthy this season and I blame him a lot more for that terrible minus. Everyone playing with Drake was hurting.

I’m not a DJ guy but the reason he didn’t try more it is that 7-18-28 (1) was best for development of key players (7 and 18) and (2) gave him a chance to win every night. He needed DeBrincat to give him more, take over that second line and provided him opportunity to do so at even strength and on the PP. Unfortunately DeBrincat didn’t produce at the level they hoped. I could see trying it if there is a prolonged slump from the top line but otherwise you’re essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul and I don’t think you come out further ahead.

Don’t get me wrong, DeBrincat would still open space for Tim, but a perimeter oriented winger, even a high scoring one, will never open up the same space as an elite power forward.

 

[Micklebot]

It was a good line. Clearly not as good as the 7-18-28 line but good. Maybe overall we end up with a more productive top 6 splitting them but I doubt it.

I think having an elite #1 center greatly increases your chances of winning a cup. I think Norris can be a 1B but doesn’t have the juice to be an elite #1. Hence my objective of maximizing Stutzle.

If Cat is still around at camp, sure we can try things. But I definitely think (1) when bullets fly and points count 7 and 18 should and will be together and (2) the best move would be to trade Cat at the draft.

Was it clearly not as good? Idk, the 2021-22 line scored more,

Stü will be an elite #1 center whether he's playing with Tkachuk and G or not, I'm not concerned about him. It's not like he'd be with scrubs, DeBrincat has the 14th most goals in the league from 2018-19 to present, and Giroux is, well Giroux.

 

[aragorn]

Ottawa has a few playmakers in the top six in Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux, DBC & Batherson. It would be nice to be able to spread that scoring onto another line by moving one of those playmakers to the 3rd line to increase their point production. I like the idea of trading for Crouse, I've put proposals for him before, he would certainly increase the toughness on this team.

Not sure who they have in-house who could turn into a playmaker other than Sokolov who seems to be the next best puck distributor at forward. Jarventie might be another option but I'm not sure about him either. I wouldn't mind getting that 1st rd pick back from Arz for Thomson & Jarventie, but I doubt they do that, Mathew Wood RW seems to be ranked right around where they pick at 13th OA. Miles Wood LW his brother is a UFA & could be available this summer.

 

[Bileur]

Was it clearly not as good? Idk, the 2021-22 line scored more,

Stü will be an elite #1 center whether he's playing with Tkachuk and G or not, I'm not concerned about him. It's not like he'd be with scrubs, DeBrincat has the 14th most goals in the league from 2018-19 to present, and Giroux is, well Giroux.

By what metric? Certainly not actual goals or points.

 

[Bileur]

Ottawa has a few playmakers in the top six in Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux, DBC & Batherson. It would be nice to be able to spread that scoring onto another line by moving one of those playmakers to the 3rd line to increase their point production. I like the idea of trading for Crouse, I've put proposals for him before, he would certainly increase the toughness on this team.

Not sure who they have in-house who could turn into a playmaker other than Sokolov who seems to be the next best puck distributor at forward. Jarventie might be another option but I'm not sure about him either. I wouldn't mind getting that 1st rd pick back from Arz for Thomson & Jarventie, but I doubt they do that, Mathew Wood RW seems to be ranked right around where they pick at 13th OA. Miles Wood LW his brother is a UFA & could be available this summer.

Greig probably has the best vision of our prospects and I’d project him as a LW long term. Hopefully he can fulfill that need on Pinto’s wing.

 

[Micklebot]

By what metric? Certainly not actual goals or points.

Yes, actual goals, more were scored once you adjust for toi due to the Norris and Batherson injuries.

Tkachuk-Stützle--Giroux (2022-23)
5v5 3.55 Gf/60

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson (2021-22)
5v5 4.21 Gf/60

 

[Ice-Tray]

Norris is going to be a game changer in the top six. Bath and DBC with Josh in the middle could be awesome…. I want to see it.

 

[aragorn]

Greig probably has the best vision of our prospects and I’d project him as a LW long term. Hopefully he can fulfill that need on Pinto’s wing.

Agreed, he would be at the top of my list as well, although a .............. Jarventie - Pinto - Sokolov line is interesting. Unfortunately, they are all so young it's still hard to imagine what they could be in future. I also like a Greig - Pinto - Boucher line, if Boucher can ever stay healthy, but again young guys & who knows.

 

[Cosmix]

I know for a fact that Brady and Timmy works well and are very complimentary. Why do I need to reinvent the wheel?

The second paragraph is exactly what I’m talking about. You want Timmy out there opening up space for DeBrincat. You’re right, there’s no doubt Timmy would open space for Cat and I’m sure it would work pretty well. I want to maximize Timmy, not use Timmy to elevate Cat. For that, I want Brady out there drawing attention in front of the net, drawing attention of the most physical defender on the ice, digging pucks out of corners, creating havoc and punching in the teeth of people taking runs at Tim.

Brady opens up a ton of space for Tim to skate around and do his thing.

There are fewer examples of power forwards opening up space like that because power forwards of Brady’s calibre are so rare. When they exist, it’s a beautiful thing.

Shanahan-Yzerman.
Gillies-Trottier-Bossy
Naslund-X-Bertuzzi
Tkachuk-Zhamnov-Selanne
Tkachuk-Roenick

Even for some of the combos you proposed, their teams try to fit in a physical presence to help make space.

Tikkanen/Semenko-Gretzky-Kurri
Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson
Maroon/Kassian/Hyman-McDavid-Drai


Heck even in Ottawa we’d see Heatley-Spezza-Neil when things were getting spicy.

Tkachuk is on another level from some of these guys, he can produce offensively at DeBrincat’s level while providing that physical presence. It’s only natural he rides with Stutzle.




Listen, I agree DBC decent defensively.

That said, come on man, DBC is closer to Batherson defensively than he is to Alfie. He’s decent, nothing special. Alfie was a special two way player.

Some of Cat’s terrible +/- is due to his line, but he’s part of that too. If he couldn’t avoid getting himself to -31 on the season, I don’t understand how you can seriously think that he would have had a +13 to + 23 impact on Stutzle’s plus minus. That’s ridiculous.

Made me smile to see Tkachuk-Zhamnov-Selanne!

I will add The Hot Line:
"Anders Hedberg, Ulf Nilsson and Bobby Hull became locally known as “The Hot Line.” This prolific trio combined for an ungodly 573 goals, 1,377 points and averaged 100-points each for three out of the four seasons they played together."

 

[Bileur]

Yes, actual goals, more were scored once you adjust for toi due to the Norris and Batherson injuries.

Tkachuk-Stützle--Giroux (2022-23)
5v5 3.55 Gf/60

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson (2021-22)
5v5 4.21 Gf/60

Interesting, I don’t know where you got those stats but would love to see the breakdowns by line like that.

Bath and Norris injuries in 2021-2022 were unfortunate but actual production matters too.

Goals, points, EVG, EVP, goals/G, P/G, EVG/G, EVP/G, individual 5 v. 5 points/60 all favour the 2022-2023 line.

Made me smile to see Tkachuk-Zhamnov-Selanne!

I will add The Hot Line:
"Anders Hedberg, Ulf Nilsson and Bobby Hull became locally known as “The Hot Line.” This prolific trio combined for an ungodly 573 goals, 1,377 points and averaged 100-points each for three out of the four seasons they played together."

I was hoping you’d chime in with Bobby Hull or Production line examples.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Being out here for the West Coast Express was something to behold. That and the Pizza Line were awesome.

 

[scout20]

fo Flyers DBC; Sogard Formenton
to Sens. Hart, Frost. Tippet

 

[JD1]

Yes, actual goals, more were scored once you adjust for toi due to the Norris and Batherson injuries.

Tkachuk-Stützle--Giroux (2022-23)
5v5 3.55 Gf/60

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson (2021-22)
5v5 4.21 Gf/60

Which is to my point earlier.

Do you recall all the graphics on the TV broadcasts showing Tkachuk Norris Batherson as a top 5 line in the game 5 on 5 for offensive stats like Corsi and xGF.

Now, I don't imagine with them being physically stronger and more mature that they'd regress as a line.

And then you have Jimmy Stu centering another line. It's going to be a huge problem

 

[JD1]

Made me smile to see Tkachuk-Zhamnov-Selanne!

I will add The Hot Line:
"Anders Hedberg, Ulf Nilsson and Bobby Hull became locally known as “The Hot Line.” This prolific trio combined for an ungodly 573 goals, 1,377 points and averaged 100-points each for three out of the four seasons they played together."

Of course the Winnipeg boy remembers that

 

[DJB]

This thread is a cesspool I can’t believe some people are still arguing over Burrows and Stalberg lol. Move on people

I’d like to try a Brady - Stu - DBC line

I know Cat plays LW but if he can find a way to try RW or maybe Brady moves over there I’d like to see that combo potentially

I love Giroux with Stu and Brady but we need to spread the wealth a little in our top 6 and not just load up our top line and hope the others can figure it out

 

[trentmccleary]

Erik Brannstrom, I see people adding him to their lineups for next year. Why?
He's 5-10, 180 lbs and scored 63 points in 90 AHL games.
With the additions of Sanderson and Chychrun, he's 4th in PP time on defense on a team that regularly uses forwards on the point. He should probably be playing on a team that has a better opportunity to use his offensive skills. If he stays here, he's stuck on the bottom pairing and his best qualities are being underutilized. Maybe he could move on and replace a guy like Hronek on Detroit.
Plus, I believe that we should probably shoot for somebody bigger and more defensive to replace him. Chabot, Chychrun and Sanderson provide a lot of offensive talent already. Holden and Zaitsev are gone, they played 90+ games last season with 3 minutes of PK time each. They weren't enough in that role either, so the player we get needs to be a significant upgrade on them.
I don't think that he meets the team's needs and the team no longer offers him the opportunity to grow as a player.

Formenton - expired QO of $787,500
Greig - $863,333
Gambrell - QO of $997,500
Gauthier - QO of $840,000
Patrick Brown - UFA, last contract $750,000
Pinto - QO of $874,125
Smejkal - $870,000
Brannstrom - QO of $945,000
JBD - QO of $874,125
Kleven - $916,667
Thomson - $863,333
Hamonic - UFA, last contract $3,000,000

I don't see how you'd expect six of those players to earn $10M. Even if you assume that the six are players without contracts, outside of Brannstrom and maybe Formenton I don't think of any of them gets a signficant raise. Hamonic will likely get less on his next contract.

Assen na yo!

I could easily see a scenario where Hamonic, Pinto and Formenton combine for $6m alone.