Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[Wallet Inspector]

Tbh I'd only want to trade DBC if a #1 goalie(or a super-good goalie prospect) is coming the other way.

 

[trentmccleary]

The players I expect taking those spots would be some combination of Formenton, Greig, Gambrell, Gauthier, Patrick Brown, Pinto, Smejkal, Brannstrom, JBD, Kleven, Thomson, and Hamonic. Of those only Hamonic might make significantly over $900k.

So, yes, I expect a combination of kids, tweeners and aging vets.

Assen na yo!

I expect 6 of those 12 players to on the roster to start the season and expect them to cost nearly $10 million.

We only got as close as we did to the playoffs this year due to the strength of our top two lines, despite missing Norris (who is even less of a line driver than DbC). If we trade DbC, it's a big step back.

The team had 5 forwards in the top-80 scoring forwards, even without Norris. Offense isn't the problem. If the coach can't get a team with that kind of talent into the playoffs, then nothing short of 6 x McDavids on the top 2 lines is going to make it happen.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Couple recent developments probably make it more likely DeBrincat stays.

Dubas fired and a new GM coming to Toronto increases the likelihood Murray is bought out, which would clear 4M in cap for them and open 1.3M in space for us.

The NHL and PA are also working to see if they can bump the cap ceiling up by more than 1M next year.

If both happen we'd be able to fit in DeBrincat on his 9M QO without too much of an issue. If Murray doesn't get bought out and the cap stays where it is it would be difficult to keep ADB and have enough cap space left over to add a decent option in net behind Forsberg.

Still extremely skeptical Dorion would trade DeBrincat for far less than he gave up to get him when we're trying to make the playoffs next year, even if it is in the long-term benefit of the organization.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Its a shame it derailed a good discussion. I personally dont think Debrincat at 8 million is a good fit in Ottawa with the current roster and the money can be better spent elsewhere. That doesnt mean he isnt a good fit somewhere else either. I personally dont love spending that much on wingers in general. If you do spend 8 + on a winger they need to be multi dimensional (two way player or bring a physical aspect) or a player that can drive a line and compete for an art ross.

Ottawa needs to get harder to play against in general. They have the top end skill they need to insulate it with more speed, grit and players that can finish their checks while contributing offensively.

I agree with most of your thoughts, if DBC can come in at 7.5-8, then I’m on board, but will sting for 1 year until cap goes up.
Just need to be patient for 1 more year I feel.
Also agree big time on being harder to play against, that’s why I’d like to move Branny if we could swap for some size on back end, If not then don’t give Branny more than a 2 year deal.
Also on DBC I’d prefer and maybe he would, something around a 5 year deal.

I feel not next year but the 2-3 year after should be really good for us.
Unless a new GM dismantles part of current team, then no idea.

I’d also be ok if DBC was moved for a top goalie, but would have to be a deal that involves Saros or Helly.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Well that’s not the gotcha you think it is.
For some reason you think saying plus minus is a team stat contradicts, saying plus minus should only be used to compare amongst teammates.
Both are true.

"He was -31 this year. Unless he is scoring he is a net negative." Where in that sentence or in any of the sentences that followed did you see him make the teammates comparable? In another post he's previously made, he literally laughed at the idea of using plus minus.

"Unless he is scoring he is a net negative." How does that signify anything about plus minus being a team stat? Sounds to me like he's using a flimsy, bullshit argument that he himself has called out before to make this point.

In his post history, he spent most of the season flame-throwing Batherson for his pitiful defensive play. Who was Batherson's most common linemate?

I can't believe someone has to actually stand up for the value of a multiple 40G+ scorer because he had one slightly down year from his usual production. And to use a naked plus minus stat to counterfeit all of that player's qualities is just f***ing absurd. What the f*** is going on with this forum? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading one thread that's spent the last 4-5 pages talking about Burrows and Balcers again and another that's taken a dive off the deep end on the value of one of the best young goal scorers in the league.

The guy is 14th in the league in total goals since his draft year. He's T20 for Goals per Game Played in that same time frame. You know how many teams kill to have guys like that? And some people here are like "ooooof, -31 is so tough to look past, better ship him off now while we can still get Kotkaniemi for him". What the actual f*** is going on here? This isn't an intellectually honest conversation. This isn't even really much of a debate. Especially, no less one presented by a guy whose own words have undermined his credibility on this specific talking point.

 

[Golden_Jet]

"He was -31 this year. Unless he is scoring he is a net negative." Where in that sentence or in any of the sentences that followed did you see him make the teammates comparable? In another post he's previously made, he literally laughed at the idea of using plus minus.

"Unless he is scoring he is a net negative." How does that signify anything about plus minus being a team stat? Sounds to me like he's using a flimsy, bullshit argument that he himself has called out before to make this point.

In his post history, he spent most of the season flame-throwing Batherson for his pitiful defensive play. Who was Batherson's most common linemate?

I can't believe someone has to actually stand up for the value of a multiple 40G+ scorer because he had one slightly down year from his usual production. And to use a naked plus minus stat to counterfeit all of that player's qualities is just f***ing absurd. What the f*** is going on with this forum? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading one thread that's spent the last 4-5 pages talking about Burrows and Balcers again and another that's taken a dive off the deep end on the value of one of the best young goal scorers in the league.

The guy is 14th in the league in total goals since his draft year. He's T20 for Goals per Game Played in that same time frame. You know how many teams kill to have guys like that? And some people here are like "ooooof, -31 is so tough to look past, better ship him off now while we can still get Kotkaniemi for him". What the actual f*** is going on here? This isn't an intellectually honest conversation. This isn't even really much of a debate. Especially, no less one presented by a guy whose own words have undermined his credibility on this specific talking point.

Lol, well I actually agree with a lot of what you wrote, especially Balcers et Al.
I’d prefer we keep DBC, if signs in the 7.5-8 range, like I said earlier it will only sting for the first year with the cap. If trade, then a #1 goalie is what I would want in package.

Also to your plus minus post, I do believe in comparing plus minus to the team only.
But this team was negative goal differential, I haven’t checked DBC 5 on 5 numbers.
Also empty net plus minus , stars usually lose on that one, Senators - 8 on empty net differential.

https://morehockeystats.com/teams/en

So summary I’m pro DBC, he’s small but competes and throws the body.

 

[Loach]

I've read the trade proposals and have seen how upset Red Wings fans get, but I think DeBrincat going there makes the most sense.

They have a desperate need for a 1st liner. He would have been their 2nd leading scorer by 10 points last season.
They have lots of cap space.
He's the right age for their rebuild (ours too).
They have lots of picks this year (5 in the first 2 rounds).
He's from Michigan.



Players making that little tend to be kids or tweeners. That's a lot of people who are barely in the NHL. It's 40% of the roster. They're going to cost more than that. The #5-7 defensemen (Hamonic, Holden and Brannstrom) cost $5.2 million this past year. That's twice as much as the average mentioned above and it ignores the fact that Zaitsev was being $4.5.

5 picks in the first 2 rounds?!

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

If we can get 2 or 3 solid top 9 guys on flexible term with DBCs salary would that not be better?

Not to mention Sanderson is going to be an 8mill + defenceman soon and Pinto might/will push for 4mill + plus salary.

This team bout to get expensive fast.

 

[DaveMatthew]

If we can get 2 or 3 solid top 9 guys on flexible term with DBCs salary would that not be better?

Not to mention Sanderson is going to be an 8mill + defenceman soon and Pinto might/will push for 4mill + plus salary.

This team bout to get expensive fast.

That's easier said than done.

It's tough for Ottawa to sign guys in free agency, and to get someone to come, you'll likely have to overpay in dollars and years. Frank Vatrano signed for 3x3.65M in Anaheim last summer, but that's to live in SoCal. In Ottawa, he probably asks for 4x4M. Marchment got 4x4.5 in Dallas (would probably need 5x5 in Ottawa), Mikheyev got 4x4.75M in Vancouver...

That's what solid top 9 guys are going for. You're net getting 3 of them for 9M.

A trade is probably tricky as well since:

a. You won't get much value for Debrincat without an extension and a 9M QO
b. You'll need to find a team with which he'll extend, and one that has a need/want for him
c. You'll likely need to take a fairly substantial contract back

Something like DBC to the Islanders for JG Pageau + Simon Holmstrom + a couple 2nds is what we'd probably be looking at.

Would that make the team better? That's up for debate depending what you do with the ~3M in savings, I guess.

The rub is that the NHL is a copycat league, and everyone is watching big forechecking teams in the playoffs right now. Will any team be in a rush to trade significant assets and commit a lot of money to a 5'7 winger coming off a down season?

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's tough for Ottawa to sign guys in free agency, and to get someone to come, you'll likely have to overpay in dollars and years. Frank Vatrano signed for 3x3.65M in Anaheim last summer, but that's to live in SoCal. In Ottawa, he probably asks for 4x4M. Marchment got 4x4.5 in Dallas (would probably need 5x5 in Ottawa), Mikheyev got 4x4.75M in Vancouver...

That's what solid top 9 guys are going for. You're net getting 3 of them for 9M.

A trade is probably tricky as well since:

a. You won't get much value for Debrincat without an extension and a 9M QO
b. You'll need to find a team with which he'll extend, and one that has a need/want for him
c. You'll likely need to take a fairly substantial contract back

Something like DBC to the Islanders for JG Pageau + Simon Holmstrom + a couple 2nds is what we'd probably be looking at.

Would that make the team better? That's up for debate depending what you do with the ~3M in savings, I guess.

The rub is that the NHL is a copycat league, and everyone is watching big forechecking teams in the playoffs right now. Will any team be in a rush to trade significant assets and commit a lot of money to a 5'7 winger coming off a down season?

Well using your example and numbers you only get 2 of those players not 3.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Lol, well I actually agree with a lot of what you wrote, especially Balcers et Al.
I’d prefer we keep DBC, if signs in the 7.5-8 range, like I said earlier it will only sting for the first year with the cap. If trade, then a #1 goalie is what I would want in package.

Also to your plus minus post, I do believe in comparing plus minus to the team only.
But this team was negative goal differential, I haven’t checked DBC 5 on 5 numbers.
Also empty net plus minus , stars usually lose on that one, Senators - 8 on empty net differential.

https://morehockeystats.com/teams/en

So summary I’m pro DBC, he’s small but competes and throws the body.

He's also been remarkably durable in his career, playing 450/454 games since 2017-18.

And what I'm even more confused by is the ridiculous catch-22 on this board of blaming the GM and coach for the team not being good enough but also saying players x, y and z, like Debrincat, are not worth keeping. What an interesting space to occupy in the spectrum of opinions. It's kinda baffling that it can be both things, simultaneously.

Even setting that aside, giving up on a player of his calibre, after one "lousy" season, is the type of bad asset management the smooth brains on here have been railing against since Dorion took over. Man has this place become depressing. I remember when there used to be such a great community on here. Sadly, it seems it's all gone...

 

[Golden_Jet]

He's also been remarkably durable in his career, playing 450/454 games since 2017-18.

And what I'm even more confused by is the ridiculous catch-22 on this board of blaming the GM and coach for the team not being good enough but also saying players x, y and z, like Debrincat, are not worth keeping. What an interesting space to occupy in the spectrum of opinions. It's kinda baffling that it can be both things, simultaneously.

Even setting that aside, giving up on a player of his calibre, after one "lousy" season, is the type of bad asset management the smooth brains on here have been railing against since Dorion took over. Man has this place become depressing. I remember when there used to be such a great community on here. Sadly, it seems it's all gone...

Well said.

 

[trentmccleary]

5 picks in the first 2 rounds?!

The wings have 9, 17, 41, 42 & 43 this year.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Call me crazy but I don't mind going next season with Forsberg as the starter.
We can absolutely overpay for a guy like Saros or Jarry for example and regret it like when we brought in Murray.
I'd much rather sign a 1B guy like Adin Hill for example and let those two battle it out.
Soogard and Merilainen can take care of the AHL.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Call me crazy but I don't mind going next season with Forsberg as the starter.
We can absolutely overpay for a guy like Saros or Jarry for example and regret it like when we brought in Murray.
I'd much rather sign a 1B guy like Adin Hill for example and let those two battle it out.
Soogard and Merilainen can take care of the AHL.

I wasn't before, but Hamonic broke both his knees.

Who can tell how that is going to impact him.

 

[bert]

These playoffs are demonstrating to me IMO that we just need to keep this guy no matter what. He has a shot that can beat any goalie with pinpoint precision. I disagree on him not being a line driver; he was clearly that guy on the 2nd line, and really got no help in a developing Pinto and a recovering Batherson.

Scoring depth also means having 1st line quality players down the lineup, like Reinhart in FLA, not just really good 3rd liners on the 3rd and 4th line.

DbC is also a physical player on the dump. I'm sure you saw him deliver plenty of times a big hit on defenders down low. He also doesn't get blown up much, if at all. All I recall is that hit from Matthew Tkachuk on him when he was prone.

DbC is not railroading our ability to secure forward depth, assuming he comes in at $8m. He is not a Marner or RNH type player that is secretly useless, this guy scores goals. There is simply a bit of a cap crunch this year which opens up as early as next year.

We only got as close as we did to the playoffs this year due to the strength of our top two lines, despite missing Norris (who is even less of a line driver than DbC). If we trade DbC, it's a big step back.

The line was -31 at even strength he did not drive the play. They were the weakest link on the team. These playoffs are proving that players like him aren't successful. Fast, heavy hockey is winning. Small players are not thriving. Marner is a way better play driver and a much better defensive player and even he struggled.

 

[bert]

I wasn't before, but Hamonic broke both his knees.

Who can tell how that is going to impact him.

He's fine it was his MCL's. I think they should go get another goalie in Andersen, Varlamov or Hill. None should be overly expensive.

 

[bert]

"He was -31 this year. Unless he is scoring he is a net negative." Where in that sentence or in any of the sentences that followed did you see him make the teammates comparable? In another post he's previously made, he literally laughed at the idea of using plus minus.

"Unless he is scoring he is a net negative." How does that signify anything about plus minus being a team stat? Sounds to me like he's using a flimsy, bullshit argument that he himself has called out before to make this point.

In his post history, he spent most of the season flame-throwing Batherson for his pitiful defensive play. Who was Batherson's most common linemate?

I can't believe someone has to actually stand up for the value of a multiple 40G+ scorer because he had one slightly down year from his usual production. And to use a naked plus minus stat to counterfeit all of that player's qualities is just f***ing absurd. What the f*** is going on with this forum? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading one thread that's spent the last 4-5 pages talking about Burrows and Balcers again and another that's taken a dive off the deep end on the value of one of the best young goal scorers in the league.

The guy is 14th in the league in total goals since his draft year. He's T20 for Goals per Game Played in that same time frame. You know how many teams kill to have guys like that? And some people here are like "ooooof, -31 is so tough to look past, better ship him off now while we can still get Kotkaniemi for him". What the actual f*** is going on here? This isn't an intellectually honest conversation. This isn't even really much of a debate. Especially, no less one presented by a guy whose own words have undermined his credibility on this specific talking point.

You quoted it. You can't be serious then I backed up the comment with tangible explanations. It's actually in this thread.... Other posters are reading it....

Yes batherson played a very poor season. Do you disagree with that too? He can be better we have seen it. More than one player can struggle. Doesn't mean these issues can't be fixed.

Lastly you are absolutely correct it's not an intellectually honest conversation and you are 100 percent responsible for it.

 

[DaveMatthew]

He's also been remarkably durable in his career, playing 450/454 games since 2017-18.

And what I'm even more confused by is the ridiculous catch-22 on this board of blaming the GM and coach for the team not being good enough but also saying players x, y and z, like Debrincat, are not worth keeping. What an interesting space to occupy in the spectrum of opinions. It's kinda baffling that it can be both things, simultaneously.

Even setting that aside, giving up on a player of his calibre, after one "lousy" season, is the type of bad asset management the smooth brains on here have been railing against since Dorion took over. Man has this place become depressing. I remember when there used to be such a great community on here. Sadly, it seems it's all gone...

It all comes down to the number. If Debrincat wants to stay is willing to take $7.5M-8M, you sign him. He's a very good player and I think it's a safe bet he bounces back to be a ~35-goal scorer. There's no guarantee that Giroux is going to keep playing at the level from last year either. While I don't doubt he'll remain an effective player, he may take a step back offensively.

Realistically, Debrincat will be our 2nd best winger over the duration of a new contract. That's an important player.

Plus Batherson is signed to a much more affordable contract, so if DBC gets $8M, you have 2 top-end wingers signed for an average of ~6.5M each. That's solid, especially in a rising cap world.

With that said, I think the criticism of the GM comes from trading a top-10 pick for a player with 1-year left on his contract, with whom he did not discuss an extension prior to the trade, in a year where the stated goal was not the playoffs. And that's a fair criticism.

If he ends up walking, or we have to trade him for a lesser return, that's on Dorion.

#4 (Byram) for 1.5 years of Duchene for Lassi Thomson
#7 (Korchinski) for 1 year of Debrincat for (likely) a ~20 goal middle-6 player and late 1st

That wouldn't be great for the resume. Small market teams like Ottawa that have trouble attracting UFAs or convincing players to waive NTCs should value 1st round picks more than most teams. The LA Kings and NY Rangers are in a position to take risks and trade for players without contracts in place. The Ottawa Senators? Not so much.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Wish they tried DBC with Stutzle for an extended period of time.

Natural shooter who finds dead spots with a playmaking demon who regularly pulls 2 guys to him.

Seems an obvious match, but they must have been together for only a couple of games if that. What would the logic be for that?

If it's because of size, DBC-Kane was smaller and they didn't do too bad.

Stutzle would have given DBC so many clean looks to shoot.

 

[Masked]

I expect 6 of those 12 players to on the roster to start the season and expect them to cost nearly $10 million.

Formenton - expired QO of $787,500
Greig - $863,333
Gambrell - QO of $997,500
Gauthier - QO of $840,000
Patrick Brown - UFA, last contract $750,000
Pinto - QO of $874,125
Smejkal - $870,000
Brannstrom - QO of $945,000
JBD - QO of $874,125
Kleven - $916,667
Thomson - $863,333
Hamonic - UFA, last contract $3,000,000

I don't see how you'd expect six of those players to earn $10M. Even if you assume that the six are players without contracts, outside of Brannstrom and maybe Formenton I don't think of any of them gets a signficant raise. Hamonic will likely get less on his next contract.

Assen na yo!

 

[bert]

Formenton - expired QO of $787,500
Greig - $863,333
Gambrell - QO of $997,500
Gauthier - QO of $840,000
Patrick Brown - UFA, last contract $750,000
Pinto - QO of $874,125
Smejkal - $870,000
Brannstrom - QO of $945,000
JBD - QO of $874,125
Kleven - $916,667
Thomson - $863,333
Hamonic - UFA, last contract $3,000,000

I don't see how you'd expect six of those players to earn $10M. Even if you assume that the six are players without contracts, outside of Brannstrom and maybe Formenton I don't think of any of them gets a signficant raise. Hamonic will likely get less on his next contract.

Assen na yo!

The only one with any real bargaining power is Pinto. Formentons situation hurts him, Brannstrom did not produce enough to warrant anything more than 1.5.

I think they gotta bridge Pinto Maybe 2 years at 2.5? Could be risky he could explode.

 

[Masked]

The only one with any real bargaining power is Pinto. Formentons situation hurts him, Brannstrom did not produce enough to warrant anything more than 1.5.

I think they gotta bridge Pinto Maybe 2 years at 2.5? Could be risky he could explode.

Pinto has no bargaining power without the option of arbitration or an offer sheet.

I expect he'll sign a one year deal for less than a million. Depending on who the GM is, I'd expect a long term deal next year.

Assen na yo!

 

[Ice-Tray]

Sometimes you make the gamble that the age appropriate star decides that he loves the room and fits in with the guys and wants to stay. It’s the only way we were going to have a shot at DBC.

We have Chychrun and G wanting to join our young core, and there will be more as our guys mature. It’s already a team with a solid rep.

PD will end up the hero or the somewhat zero depending on what DBC wants to do, but I appreciate the move. It’s also what we have to do sometimes to make a splash since players often have to come to Ottawa to love it there.

 

[bert]

Pinto has no bargaining power without the option of arbitration or an offer sheet.

I expect he'll sign a one year deal for less than a million. Depending on who the GM is, I'd expect a long term deal next year.

Assen na yo!

He's a rookie that just scored 20 goals he is signing for more than 1 million.