Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part IV: Yak Yak Yak Yak

[Overcast]

The team doesn't want to play that type of game. Who fights after Dorsett? It's hard to stir the pot if you don't want any of your teammates to have to get involved in that type of game.

Dorsett is a smart, effective player even when not dropping his gloves.

Well they had Mashinter, but why? What is his purpose, just to NOT be a liability? Why not send him out there to do something that would fire up his team if he's riding pine for 95% of the game? Dorsett fighting doesn't automatically turn the game into a circus with 19 subsequent fights either, and this team is more than capable of standing their ground in scrums without actually fighting. Callahan, Kreider, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, hell even Zucc don't back down from people.

I agree Dorsett is an effective player when not fighting, and on some nights has looked like our best offensive player (*cringe*), but I think it'd be hard to argue that we couldn't have done with a fight last night vs LA, or vs the Devils to tip the scale.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Asham seems cool as hell to me, maybe it's because he chirps fans on Twitter. I hope we can move him on to someone who will have a spot for him in the NHL.

 

[JimmyG89]

I've been wondering why Dorsett hasn't fought for almost 2 weeks now when there have been times we could have undoubtedly used some of that energy. And I don't get why guys like Mashinter/Haley get called up if not to fight if they'd rather have Dorsett just agitating.

This organization seems to love to acquire "toughness" in the hopes that other teams will just be afraid that player X is on the roster, instead of actually using that toughness.

Or that fighting is irrelevant. Detroit does not fight. Does Anaheim, LA, have a tough guy? Fighting is going away. What we need is someone who can play and sometimes drop the gloves to rile up the guys. Mashinter/Haley do not play well enough. Kreider shows physicality, do not want dropping mitts. Dubi was overpayed. Nash is better than toughness dubi brought.

We need a Dubinsky type player making about 1.5 less than him with the same type of production he was putting up here (30-35 points). 3rd liner like that. Downie was available. Cost a guy like Max Talbot. Boyle for Downie? I would do it, but we already suck on draws. Talbot Is A Better player. Boyle and low pick/lower prospect?

Downie type players are tough to find. Dorsett has been playing better, but 4th line for his skill. Prust-lite. Maybe a player will be available at the deadline. Right now, it will be tough to trade for available guy like that without giving up a piece from the current roster that has some value.

 

[Thirty One]

Or that fighting is irrelevant. Detroit does not fight. Does Anaheim, LA, have a tough guy? Fighting is going away. What we need is someone who can play and sometimes drop the gloves to rile up the guys. Mashinter/Haley do not play well enough. Kreider shows physicality, do not want dropping mitts. Dubi was overpayed. Nash is better than toughness dubi brought.

We need a Dubinsky type player making about 1.5 less than him with the same type of production he was putting up here (30-35 points). 3rd liner like that. Downie was available. Cost a guy like Max Talbot. Boyle for Downie? I would do it, but we already suck on draws. Talbot Is A Better player. Boyle and low pick/lower prospect?

Downie type players are tough to find. Dorsett has been playing better, but 4th line for his skill. Prust-lite. Maybe a player will be available at the deadline. Right now, it will be tough to trade for available guy like that without giving up a piece from the current roster that has some value.

I won't say it's completely irrelevant, but to think a player can stir up some energy for his team by fighting a guy for no reason is a bit silly, I think.

What about the other team? Wouldn't it produce just as much energy for them?

 

[offdacrossbar]

we have scored exactly 3 goals in the last 3 games. we dont need dubinsky or any other 3rd line type who produces nothing.

we need goal scorers and shooters. we have zero of those.

 

[JimmyG89]

I won't say it's completely irrelevant, but to think a player can stir up some energy for his team by fighting a guy for no reason is a bit silly, I think.

What about the other team? Wouldn't it produce just as much energy for them?

Would not be as a staged fight. Can start something and become infectious. Dubi fighting Richards in those Philly - Ranger games. Can be a rallying point. May backfire as well. Having it as an option is great. It is a risk to take, but so is hoping the team can get itself together if a slow start happens. I'm not a fan of a lot of fightjng, but it is good to have someone that can drop when things get tough and have them be a solid player is what they need to be nowadays

 

[Thirty One]

we have scored exactly 3 goals in the last 3 games. we dont need dubinsky or any other 3rd line type who produces nothing.

we need goal scorers and shooters. we have zero of those.

The three games previous, it's 13 goals. Maybe 3 games is an inadequate sample size?

 

[JimmyG89]

we have scored exactly 3 goals in the last 3 games. we dont need dubinsky or any other 3rd line type who produces nothing.

we need goal scorers and shooters. we have zero of those.

Nash will help for sure. Bumps everyone down. If that is the case, should call up Kristo, but that is not happening. Will someone trade for MDZ and give a top 6 scorer? How much do we need to add? Feel like it would be a lot more needed for a top 6 guy for a defender do falling out of favor here.

 

[Anthony Eclair]

we have scored exactly 3 goals in the last 3 games. we dont need dubinsky or any other 3rd line type who produces nothing.

we need goal scorers and shooters. we have zero of those.

We have Nash, Kreider, and Cally but agreed on the fact that we need more. Our entire team is based off of playmakers we need more powerful guys that will crash the net and get some goals, maybe even a sniper. We love our guys but it has gotten to the point where we need to get rid of some. Getting rid of DZ is possibly just a start. Also some players just have to start shooting more even though they are used to passing. I think we need more prospects as well.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

We just need more balance on that 3rd line. Boyle and Dorsett need to be shifted down to the 4th line. Nash coming back shifts one of them down. Need that extra guy on the 3rd line. Trade DZ for someone. Give Miller 3rd line minutes. Or bring up Kristo/Fast.

Those are your 3 options. Fast is injured I believe. If the organization doesn't give Miller the opportunity to play with Brass and whoever is dropped down to the 3rd line I doubt they'll give it to Kristo who's a bigger project than Fast. Leaves us with trading DZ for a 2nd or 3rd line winger who will balance out the lines. Right now there is a distinct drop off in pressure between the top 2 lines and the bottom 2. Moore can handle checking duties and add offensive pressure when needed. That's why he was shifted up last night. Moore with Boyle and Dorsett should be fine with checking and pinning. Brassard with Cally and Miller would be ideal but Pyatt unfortunately has priority over Miller in AV's eyes.

Trading DZ for someone like Zibanejad or Yakupov (of course as part of a larger package) completely balances the lines. Pyatt is the healthy scratch. Pouloit on waivers/traded away with DZ. Every line is balanced then.

 

[Trxjw]

im watching you from the high grass....

hes a local kid who ive watched since he was a squirt. hes in a tough spot with chi. great organization and with a log jam of talent. versteeg further complicates things. hes a good target.

jet has a right handed rifle shot. alway has. hes a sniper but his 2 way game isnt all that hot according to the chi town brass. no doubt, hes an offensive kid. when he is motivated, he actually skates really well and can play with an edge. hes cocky.

he has what we need. a shooters mentality and he isnt shy about teeing it up.

but you are right, they dont need mike del zotto.

That cockiness was what I was waiting for. I knew the kid could score in space, but I needed to see him get his compete level up. The edge he's developed is a nice bonus. Has swagger on the ice and the game to back it up. Never going to be a two-way stud, but if he can be a 25+ goal guy who can hit and scrap a bit, teams will gladly look the other way on the defensive play.

 

[offdacrossbar]

The three games previous, it's 13 goals. Maybe 3 games is an inadequate sample size?

if you watch this team, you know we are scoring challenged.

2.1 gpg 26/30 (bad) and thats with 31.3 shots per game. 8/30 there. thats bad.

5on5 gf/a ratio is ..76 24/30 bad.

pretty tough to win with those kinda numbers.

says to me, so far this season.

1. we shoot alot.

2. we miss alot.

3. we dont score much

4. we struggle to score 5on5 means we dont create much offense.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The three games previous, it's 13 goals. Maybe 3 games is an inadequate sample size?

It's upsetting and maybe if we had better finishers we'd score BUT look at the Pens. They're not scoring either. Teams go through slumps. We had great chances against the Devils and Habs and the goalies made great saves. It's possible any team would have struggled in those game. Even the best players in the world sometimes get stopped.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

if you watch this team, you know we are scoring challenged.

2.1 gpg 26/30 (bad) and thats with 31.3 shots per game. 8/30 there. thats bad.

5on5 gf/a ratio is ..76 24/30 bad.

pretty tough to win with those kinda numbers.

says to me, so far this season.

1. we shoot alot.

2. we miss alot.

3. we dont score much

4. we struggle to score 5on5 means we dont create much offense.

We've created plenty of offense we just haven't scored mostly because we lack finishers. The best scorer on our best line (at least until proven otherwise) is friggin Stepan. Oh and he has 4 goals.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

We've created plenty of offense we just haven't scored mostly because we lack finishers. The best scorer on our best line (at least until proven otherwise) is friggin Stepan. Oh and he has 4 goals.

Oxymoron alert.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Oxymoron alert.

Offensive chances I meant, which is what I thought he meant because if he meant goals, then there's no reason to say we struggle to score which means we don't score.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Offensive chances I meant, which is what I thought he meant because if he meant goals, then there's no reason to say we struggle to score which means we don't score.

Im sure you are happier that a Vigneault coached team is prettier at not scoring goals compared to the previous regime.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Im sure you are happier that a Vigneault coached team is prettier at not scoring goals compared to the previous regime.

The one that was ugly and not scoring goals? Yeah, I am.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The one that was ugly and not scoring goals? Yeah, I am.

And if the team doesn't go further in the standings/playoffs, does that really matter at all?

Perhaps then you'll finally admit that the core problem all along was personnel?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

And if the team doesn't go further in the standings/playoffs, does that really matter at all?

Perhaps then you'll finally admit that the core problem all along was personnel?

Does it matter at all? Well, all things being equal I'd rather go to the ECF than lose in the first or second round. However, all things being equal I'd rather watch the more exciting team. I don't know why that's so controversial. I'm not a player that needs to worry about winning and that's it. I'm a fan. This is supposed to be ENTERTAINMENT.

 

[offdacrossbar]

We've created plenty of offense we just haven't scored mostly because we lack finishers. The best scorer on our best line (at least until proven otherwise) is friggin Stepan. Oh and he has 4 goals.

thats um...true... i think...wait

the real numbers would disagree with you.

we dont create alot 5 on 5. we sure dont score alot 5 on 5. and when we do shoot we mostly miss.

 

[Tawnos]

And if the team doesn't go further in the standings/playoffs, does that really matter at all?

Perhaps then you'll finally admit that the core problem all along was personnel?

And if the team does go further in the playoffs, does that really matter at all?

Perhaps then you'll finally admit that coaching was a problem all along?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

And if the team does go further in the playoffs, does that really matter at all?

Perhaps then you'll finally admit that coaching was a problem all along?

Absolutely. We shall see. Im certainly willing to give Vigneault many more games with a completely healthy roster and see where they wind up at the end of the year before making a final judgment.

But as of right now, you've still got a team thats 26th in the league in scoring, and has had trouble consistently scoring goals no matter who the coach is.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

thats um...true... i think...wait

the real numbers would disagree with you.

we dont create alot 5 on 5. we sure dont score alot 5 on 5. and when we do shoot we mostly miss.

What numbers say that we don't create enough chances on offense? I haven't seen the Rangers create this much on offense in years. I can't even remember last time we did. I'm not shy about complaining if we don't. I've complained about Torts teams for years. Also, don't use numbers that include games when the half the top 6 and Nash were missing and the team was learning AV's system. That dominant team yesterday was told by Sutter "you'll have 5 chances in the game against the Devils". The Rangers had a lot of chances in the 2 periods I watched against them and a lot of them quality chances. We had 10 more shots than they give up on average (hell we didn't do much yesterday but still got 37 shots on a top defensive team). In the last dozen or so game the Rangers had 2 games where they didn't create much, against two top teams (Ducks and Kings). Hell, the first time the Rangers played the Kings, before they got their **** together they had a lot of excellent chances. Granted the Kings looked piss poor.

 

[Tawnos]

Asbsolutely. We shall see. Im certainly willing to give Vigneault many more games with a completely healthy roster and see where they wind up at the end of the year before making a final judgment.

But as of right now, you've still got a team thats 26th in the league in scoring, and has had trouble consistently scoring goals no matter who the coach is.

Agreed. These last 3 games haven't been encouraging.

I do think trading Del Zotto now makes sense and I'd like to see another forward with some offensive upside. Just worried that what we'll get will be either older or more of the same.