I agree, but Im also worried the team is lowering Del Zotto's value by the second. Third pairing minutes, not playing his natural side, healthy scratch. I'm sure they can get something for him, but will it be something of impact?
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I agree, but Im also worried the team is lowering Del Zotto's value by the second. Third pairing minutes, not playing his natural side, healthy scratch. I'm sure they can get something for him, but will it be something of impact?
We'll agree to disagree, but I think its the central issue to why we argue a lot. To me, winning is the entertainment. Its about the Rangers winning the game by any means necessary.
If I want to be entertained in the traditional sense, Ill go to a movie or a show.
So if we take this to the extreme and we watched a game that had 1 shot that deflected off 3 guys from the other end of the ice and the Rangers won 1-0, you'd be entertained? If all that's important is seeing a higher number next to your team's logo, why watch them at all? You can follow the Rangers like I follow the Knicks usually by updating the score page on NBA.com.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Which is why, if they're going to trade him, they need to trade him now or wait for an injury followed by a recovery that gives DZ more LD ice time in between.
I appreciate all aspects of the game, including defense. So yes, 1-0 games could be entertaining as hell.
Truth is, these "exciting" high scoring games you crave are usually the byproduct of mistakes. Thats entertaining to you? To each his own, I guess.
gmerger37
Registered User
There is a difference between a game being exciting because there are a lot of scoring chances and good overall flow, and stone-age dump and chase and grind hockey that is boring whether the score is 1-0 or 5-4.
If you miss torts' style so much he is in Vancouver, you could watch them grind and struggle to score goals, while playing the type of game you appreciate. I agree with you that the results might make torts' style seem better in hindsight if this team doesn't advance to the ECF during AV's time here, but I can say this team is much more enjoyable to watch under AV.
I obviously did not mean to put words in anyone's mouth, including yours, Trxjw.
To the extent you may feel an apology is in order, please accept mine.
However, in my defense, ....
I trust you'll grant me, though, that there is a very fine line between
and the next logical inference, making the painful choice to actually give up overpayment to get that guy.
I think this is a more similar, common ground position than not.
I acknowledge, however, devil is in the details, and not same amount of overpayment is agreeable to consensus of posters.
If the Rangers score 14 goals in their next 2 games, they will equal Vancouver's output.
Well done.
I cant get on board with placing my own entertainment parameters over my favorite team's results. I think its selfish.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,975
- 13,635
Is this the trade speculation thread or the integrity of defensive hockey as a means of winning thread?
What does everyone think about these deals?
DZ and warm body to Winnipeg for Bryan Little and Paul Postma
DZ to Minnesota for Zucker and Dumba
DZ to Colorado for Barrie and McGinn
DZ to Ottawa for Ceci, Michalek with 50% retained or Zibanejad straight up
What does everyone think about these deals?
DZ and warm body to Winnipeg for Bryan Little and Paul Postma
DZ to Minnesota for Zucker and Dumba
DZ to Colorado for Barrie and McGinn
DZ to Ottawa for Ceci, Michalek with 50% retained or Zibanejad straight up
gmerger37
Registered User
Except the jury is still out because you are basing the "results" on 20 games from the AV rangers, and one deep run from Torts' totality of time here.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,300
- 21,901
I like the OTT and MIN ones. Bryan Little is seriously overpaid and I'm not high on Postma. Colorado is OK but I'm not high on Barrie at all.
Thank you for a constructive post, even if it had criticism.
It's like the old marx brothers joke, to paraphrase, we already established what kind of lady you are, we just have to set the price!
There is a logical point to all this.
You are right, there is a number that is too much for Rangers to pay for, say, Jones.
I am right, there is a number that is too much for Preds not to give up Jones for that much overpay return.
The question I'm asking is, is there a middle ground where these intersect?
If so, we should seriously consider doing it, since as you agree, 'certain'
"young cap friendly assets are so useful".
The question is at what cost.
You prefer to keep Stepan, fine. If the target is EKane, arguably, Staal + MDZ + small + would do it. Point being including Stepan not necessary THERE.
But if you want Risto or Jones, Buf/Nashv. will require Stepan.
And I'm saying while we wouldn't want to give Stepan to the Martians for nothing if he were kidnapped....
{that's literary license, I did not mean it literally}IF there was an awesome enough return, we should consider giving up Stepan. And others as well. Preferably from the group who is getting raises and not our very youngest core.
As to
they obviously would not do so willingly.
But if you made them an offer they couldn't refuse, you might get somewhere.
Trade MDZ + Girardi for multiple firsts +.
Stepan + the firsts.
There is a point at which the rival GM says my farm system cupboard is bare, so this is a better move than holding on to a franchise calibre guy for 4 years or so, and maybe he moves on; what would I get then? What is the upside to wait?
But you have to make a real ballsy move.
If someone wants to suggest something that's less overpayment that still get's the job done, I'm all ears.
Be very careful w/Skjei.
We are not yet talking Kreider, but this is one of our best prospects. At this very second more on potential than actual, but that potential is very strong.
No thanks. A good thought but not worth giving up Skjei for that.
NoQuitInNewMexico
it's okay cause it's all just the way it should be
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
In theory, yes... that point exists. In practice, that point would never, ever... ever! be reached.
How many times in the Cap era has a top pairing defenseman been traded? It's happened four times (Pronger x3 and Boyle) in 9 years. Not at all in the last 4. Compared to it happening two or three times a year with 1st line forwards. Now... when was the last time a Calder-worthy defenseman got moved during his rookie year? I don't think that's ever happened in my memory.
It's not that the price for acquiring Jones doesn't exist. It's that there's no reality for us to look at as a measuring stick. Without that reality, the chances of something like that happening are next to nil. I'd rather discuss things that are even remotely possible.
Anthony Eclair
Anthony Eclair
- Jan 14, 2012
- 384
- 0
Some guy on the trade rumors board offered Michalek, Zibby, and Ceci straight up for MDZ. I'd take that deal and run.
The Gloaming
23
Winnipeg deal is pretty equal for both.
Minny deal would probably need us to add a significant piece.
Colorado deal is meh.
Ottawa would never trade Ceci and Michalek in the same deal. A deal around Zib sounds fair though.
We disagree.
Again, I throw out "what about this" or "what about that", much on my own, much in response to posts made. Obviously not each and every one of these is a trade. All of them are asking, what do you think, what are the pros and cons for both teams with such a deal, resulting in assessment of how likely such a deal is.
Hertl is a fallback position.
Would only consider to do if 100% no way we get Jones/Ristolainen.
We disagree that Hertl is "flash in the pan". Yes, his % is not sustainable at off the charts level, but it is capable of star quality. So, no if the right combo gets us their version of Kreider (as to value, not type of player) then if no better deal is to be had, yes, I do it. Hertl again not "flash in the pan".
However, I prefer to exhaust other options that cost less. We are not a good match for SJ so we overpay even more because of that.
I hold hope we can do MDZ + and Girardi + separate or jointly, for multiple 2014 1sts. A couple of firsts + Stepan gets you more than just Jones, and Risto would be less.
MacK is possibly the only guy (besides Malkin, Stamkos, ) one trades McD for. EVEN THEN, I want AVs to make it worth my while, and add Siemens.
We have enough, btw, if such a deal went down.
Staal
MDZ
Moore
In this particular case there would be Siemens as well.
if we moved MDZ I would trust my eyes with what I saw at training camp and give Connor Allen a shot.
I know my detractors want to give everybody the max amount of seasoning, but I disagree. Once they have enough development, the only ? is if they are brought up will they get enough minutes to continue their progress.
You say to me
I quote you one of the greatest lyrics ever written, Robert Lamm of Chicago, from Dialogue
"will you try to change things, with the power that you have, the power of a million new ideas"
To a certain extent, reality is what you make of it.
As to
You should know better than that, oh one who is not master of the universe, and beyond.
I disagree, but very well, very intelligently said.
Long story short, I would prefer to try hard to make the right version of such a deal happen. Because the profit, while costly, would be worth it.
Just because something isn't done routinely does not mean it is not worth attempting.
Peace out!
The Gloaming
23
I would guess Torts simplifying Brassard's offensive role would take a load of pressure of of him. Torts never preached offense, never taught it. He didn't care how you put the puck in the net, he wasn't in his players ears about puck possession, cross ice passes/outlet passes, or finding the perfect shot - just put it in, dirty or clean.
Torts was all about defensive pressure. Forecheck while on offense. Pressure and block while on defense. Eventually the other team would make a mistake and the only thing left to do was shoot - something, again, that Torts wanted to be instinctual.
The point is DB overthinks and thus he messes up. Last year, with a system that inhibited thinking offensively, Derrick could have no pressure unless he was careless with the puck. No pressure to make the perfect pass, no pressure to shoot, no pressure to create.
And yet, without any pressure to live up to any expectations, he became successful. He came out, focused on defense, and because he focused on a different aspect of his game he was no longer overthinking offense.
I think AV will get 3c production out of him that comes in spurts. I want to see him succeed. I really think he came in and Torts system, while it may not have been to his complete liking, really allowed him to become the player everyone hopes he becomes.
AIexisLafreniereNYR
Registered Drug User
GoAwayGiannone
Registered User
Lets just say there's an alternate reality where you are appointed Rangers GM. You make all of these wacky trades, and the team is not surprisingly mediocre for years. How do you explain to the media and fans that throwing away multiple proven and valuable pieces was a mistake?
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