Beerz
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- Jun 28, 2011
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Prospect Info: Zach Benson, LW/C, Wenatchee (WHL), Signed ELC- 2023, 13th Overall
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Yes, and what we do here is express opinions and disagree with those of others.
There are two reasons for why this one sticks out for me. First is that it is so obviously wrong. If a person can list hundreds of NHL players who returned to junior for a year or two, including players who were demonstrably better than Benson when drafted (like Draisatl), and the counter is not a single player whose career was derailed by returning to junior, then it is kind of silly to have the opinion or argue that Benson was too good to return to junior. Second is that the “Benson was too good for junior” argument lets Adams off the hook for a truly terrible decision. Benson being in the NHL has done nothing for the Sabres. Nothing. He is now on the 4th line. He is pacing to have the same 30 point season he had as a rookie. We are last in the East. We have burned two years of his ELC when we had all the cap space in the world and no roster related reason to keep an 18 yr old on the team. It was a terrible decision, poor player development, and awful asset management.
Beerz
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- Jun 28, 2011
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Development is not linear... Even players with far more skill than Benson could not be ready based on different factors. Every player is different and you can evaluate them accordingly.
None of this talk is verifiable because it is either one or the other.. we don't get to see the results from the other decision if it was right or wrong ect.
Your complaints seem more directed at Adams and the result it had for the Sabres... fair..but..has nothing to do with the question at hand.
An argument can be made that Benson doesn't deserve to be on 4th line... Ruff has always had questionable moves when it came to line up decisions.
Even last year Benson was noticeable in making a line better even while not collecting points from it.
He is probably the best defensive forward I have seen on the Sabres since Peca.
All the negative effects on the Sabres that resulted from Adams decision has nothing to do with what the whole point of the argument was about.
I agree with all of this. And none of it supports that Benson was too good for junior hockey, which is the point that I disagree with.
Beerz
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- Jun 28, 2011
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Because it was a rebuff on your statement..which 90% had nothing to do with Benson NOT being too good for Juniors.
I already gave out my reasons several posts ago...
With certain players there is not much for them to gain in Juniors. Some players need to be challenged and those challenges can be super beneficial to player development imo.
I admit I could be wrong. Perhaps Zach Benson is a near one of a kind unicorn of a hockey player who at 18 years of age had nothing to gain by returning to junior hockey.
Beerz
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There are few players who don't benefit by returning to their junior league to be the dominant, high-minute play driver for their team. Having watched a lot of Benson due to following Savoie closely, he was not too good for going back if that had been the choice. That he outworked and outhustled his way onto the team speaks well of him but he was not some gilded paragon.
Zman5778
Moderator
Frankly I think it speaks more about his teammates.
- Oct 14, 2005
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I know you were talking about Zach Benson, but that just struck me as sound marital advice.
tsujimoto74
Moderator
- May 28, 2012
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The thing about Benson’s development is that I feel like the biggest thing holding him back this year is Ruff. Kid is being criminally underutilized on the 4th line.
I've wondered about the ankle injury that he had to start the year. For someone who needs to work on his speed, having a wonky pin isn't going to help.
Krieger Bot
Registered User
- Apr 30, 2007
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Agreed. I honestly don't see what Benson would've benefitted by playing in juniors. The main holes in his game are his shot and his skating. It's not like the WHL has better coaches to help him work on that or something. Nor do I think his offensive skills would be better honed by playing against teenagers than NHL defensemen. In fact, I think there's a good chance it's the opposite. Playing in juniors might very well have slowed his development down because he would've had to learn to play against men in, say, his D+3 season instead of his D+1.
To come at it a bit differently, I don't think asking whether he was too good for the WHL is the right question. The question is whether he was ready for the NHL. And the answer is yes. It's not like he's up here getting overwhelmed by the league and having his development hurt like Grigorenko and Mitts were (and it's telling that no one is arguing otherwise). So he may as well work on his game here. There's no magic to playing in juniors that makes it better for player development.
Now let's get him off the 4th line and back to playing with skilled players. There's a half dozen players in our top 9 right now that I think he's at least as good as, so he may as well get some of their ice time so he can continue developing.
Krieger Bot
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- Apr 30, 2007
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I understand why the Sabres kept him up instead of sending him back. And I get why people are hyped about him. But I also kind of understand why he dropped in the draft. I think there are some real questions about how his physical limitations may impact his upside.
That said, I'd love to see them give him an extended look at center. I think his high IQ play and distribution skills could really thrive there. I could see him develop into a 20+ goal, 50+ point guy who tilts the ice in your favor while spending much of his time covering one of the opposition's top 2 centers. That feels more valuable to me than what he offers on the wing.
You mean, until recently. He has been on the 4th line the last couple of games anyways.
CowbellConray
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2010
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Benson has been pretty consistent to what he was last year. 14:00 TOI, little PP time, primary ES scoring. Scoring rate has slightly regressed (.39 PPG this year to .42 PPG last year), however his quality of teammate has greatly decreased.
Most common linemates last year:
Cozens - Peterka - Benson 21.6%
Greenway - Mitts - Benson 12.6%
Krebs - Peterka - Benson 8.1%
Greenway - Cozens - Benson 7.9%
Most common linemates this year:
Krebs - Quinn - Benson 13.1%
Cozens - Quinn - Benson 11.5%
Krebs - Kulich - Benson 9.5%
Guy has gone from legit #2 Center Mitts and legit top 6 winger in JJ as common linemates to Krebs and struggling Quinn. And with that being said, he still drives those lines and possession metrics (Corsi for this years line combos is roughly 58%, while Krebs without Benson has a Corsi of 48%).
Benson has had his linemates taken by Zucker, and that's ok. Kid is still a productive NHL player, he just has a reduced role. I fully expect him to be a top 6 winger who crushes possession in his prime.
Most common linemates last year:
Cozens - Peterka - Benson 21.6%
Greenway - Mitts - Benson 12.6%
Krebs - Peterka - Benson 8.1%
Greenway - Cozens - Benson 7.9%
Most common linemates this year:
Krebs - Quinn - Benson 13.1%
Cozens - Quinn - Benson 11.5%
Krebs - Kulich - Benson 9.5%
Guy has gone from legit #2 Center Mitts and legit top 6 winger in JJ as common linemates to Krebs and struggling Quinn. And with that being said, he still drives those lines and possession metrics (Corsi for this years line combos is roughly 58%, while Krebs without Benson has a Corsi of 48%).
Benson has had his linemates taken by Zucker, and that's ok. Kid is still a productive NHL player, he just has a reduced role. I fully expect him to be a top 6 winger who crushes possession in his prime.
Also, just looking back through at usage over the last 10 games, he has been Ruff's utility guy to get more time up the lineup, sometimes considerably more than the rest of the "4th line" guys. This goes back in time from the last game to 10 games ago at the start of the Western road trip in Seattle. Total TOI, total shift count and where his TOI places him in regards to the rest of the forwards:
14:02 - 21 shifts - 8th of 12
11:44 - 18 shifts - 10th of 11
16:26 - 19 shifts - 6th of 11
12:09 - 14 shifts - 11th of 12 (only ahead of JQ's 8:41)
12:39 - 17 shifts - 9th of 12
10:56 - 15 shifts - 10th of 12
13:54 - 17 shifts - 10th of 12 (4:47 more than Lafferty, 5:47 more than Beck)
17:21 - 22 shifts - 8th of 11
17:21 - 24 shifts - 7th of 11
13:51 - 18 shifts - 9th of 12
14:02 - 21 shifts - 8th of 12
11:44 - 18 shifts - 10th of 11
16:26 - 19 shifts - 6th of 11
12:09 - 14 shifts - 11th of 12 (only ahead of JQ's 8:41)
12:39 - 17 shifts - 9th of 12
10:56 - 15 shifts - 10th of 12
13:54 - 17 shifts - 10th of 12 (4:47 more than Lafferty, 5:47 more than Beck)
17:21 - 22 shifts - 8th of 11
17:21 - 24 shifts - 7th of 11
13:51 - 18 shifts - 9th of 12
