Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Part X: Sather Falls Asleep on the Phone

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
Starting to think Stralman gets resigned . Girardi dealt if they can find a good young rd coming back . He's likely too rich as a ufa so they should make a move
 
Clearly Clowe was a big risk, but if he stays healthy he is a factor and certainly the type of player we could use.

I just don't think that it is a given that Lou screwed up.

Taking on players with concussion histories is just a bad idea. See Eric Lindros. Ever see Clowe fight? Fighting's been part of his stock and trade as a power forward. He likes to trade punches and overpower opponents. He trades with anybody good it's very likely he'll get concussed again.

Clowe was (operative word) a good player by the by but not half the player Lindros was.

Let's see--31 year old--never played for your team--slow as molasses skater--coming off a concussion plagued season--we'll give him 5 years at $4.8 mil per year + and we'll even throw in a NMC. And the results aren't mixed so far they suck. Plays 9 games--misses 32. 2 assists for the first $2.4 mil.

I'll give Lou that the Jagr signing was kind of shrewd on his part but the Clowe contract by far is the dumbest contract of last summer's free agent season. His team is on the hook for that contract whether Clowe finishes it or not. My gut tells me it won't even be close.

He's an injury waiting to happen.
 
Clowe's contract is real bad because of its length. If it was a 1 or 2 year deal to see if you can get something out of him, sure, but 5 years was dumb
 
Taking on players with concussion histories is just a bad idea. See Eric Lindros. Ever see Clowe fight? Fighting's been part of his stock and trade as a power forward. He likes to trade punches and overpower opponents. He trades with anybody good it's very likely he'll get concussed again.

Clowe was (operative word) a good player by the by but not half the player Lindros was.

Let's see--31 year old--never played for your team--slow as molasses skater--coming off a concussion plagued season--we'll give him 5 years at $4.8 mil per year + and we'll even throw in a NMC. And the results aren't mixed so far they suck. Plays 9 games--misses 32. 2 assists for the first $2.4 mil.

I'll give Lou that the Jagr signing was kind of shrewd on his part but the Clowe contract by far is the dumbest contract of last summer's free agent season. His team is on the hook for that contract whether Clowe finishes it or not. My gut tells me it won't even be close.

He's an injury waiting to happen.

I don't really disagree with what you are saying here, it's just that MY gut is telling me something else against this logic.

If Sather had signed Clowe for a similar contract I would have viewed that as very questionable indeed. If we could have gotten him cheap, I would have been all for it though.

I think Lindros was in MUCH worse shape than Clowe is now. I was surprised he even decided to come back to hockey, but at that time The Rangers had very few options anyway, and the cap situation was completely different (non existant?>)
 
Clowe's contract is real bad because of its length. If it was a 1 or 2 year deal to see if you can get something out of him, sure, but 5 years was dumb

I don't know.

Odds are that NJ will be crippled by the Clowe signing just to the extent Boston is crippled by the Savard signing. Savard is on Boston's books for three more years if not more. Don't hurt them one bit, never will hurt them.

The big loose for the Clowe signing is probably the insurance company. Second biggest looser the PA and the other teams for increased premiums.
 
I don't really disagree with what you are saying here, it's just that MY gut is telling me something else against this logic.

If Sather had signed Clowe for a similar contract I would have viewed that as very questionable indeed. If we could have gotten him cheap, I would have been all for it though.

I think Lindros was in MUCH worse shape than Clowe is now. I was surprised he even decided to come back to hockey, but at that time The Rangers had very few options anyway, and the cap situation was completely different (non existant?>)

The Lindros the Rangers got played more on the periphery than the Lindros the Flyers had. He was much more aware of where he was on the ice and alert to potential dangerous situations. Sometimes it doesn't take much. He got concussed by Mark Smith of San Jose on a very ordinary collision. Messier was a bit like that towards the end of his career as well--injuries had taken a toll. In his day Lindros was the best player in the league. A combination of Malkin skill and Lucic toughness. When concussions start following one on top of the other there's a problem. Two concussions in a single year IMO is a very red flag. That player needs some serious time off at that point. I'm wondering about Marc Staal--if he were to get nailed again….when concussions start coming one after the other it's just a matter of time before the player is done.

I liked what I saw of Clowe when he was in our lineup--even despite his not very good skating. To me it was just crazy signing this guy to a 5 year deal and giving him an NMC on top of that--the Rangers don't release very much about injuries but there were at least two concussions there. I think Lou was feeling a bit vulnerable after losing all of Parise, Kovalchuk and Clarkson in two summers. IMO it was a desperation move on his part. Some of the moves he made have worked out well though--Jagr and Ryder but that signing was just flat out stupid.
 
Clowes injuries are nothing new. he had as many goals as concussions last year. thank god slats saw these issues.

One would've hoped that Sather saw that before he coughed up multiple assets for Clowe in yet another ill conceived attempt at a playoff run.
 
I don't know.

Odds are that NJ will be crippled by the Clowe signing just to the extent Boston is crippled by the Savard signing. Savard is on Boston's books for three more years if not more. Don't hurt them one bit, never will hurt them.

The big loose for the Clowe signing is probably the insurance company. Second biggest looser the PA and the other teams for increased premiums.

I'd agree for any team that doesn't spend to the cap limit. New Jersey tends to get at least close. Teams that look to bring quality vets in during the summer UFA season need lots of cap space. New Jersey did hit that market hard last summer. Jagr, Ryder, Brunner, Zidlicky, Clowe etc.
 
I don't know.

Odds are that NJ will be crippled by the Clowe signing just to the extent Boston is crippled by the Savard signing. Savard is on Boston's books for three more years if not more. Don't hurt them one bit, never will hurt them.

The big loose for the Clowe signing is probably the insurance company. Second biggest looser the PA and the other teams for increased premiums.

Or Clowe can stay more or less healthy and continue to produce at a 2 point in 9 game pace. The only way it doesn't hurt the devils is if he ends up retiring soon. I don't see Clowe ever returning to the player he was a few years ago.
 
I don't know.

Odds are that NJ will be crippled by the Clowe signing just to the extent Boston is crippled by the Savard signing. Savard is on Boston's books for three more years if not more. Don't hurt them one bit, never will hurt them.

The big loose for the Clowe signing is probably the insurance company. Second biggest looser the PA and the other teams for increased premiums.

Well, just because the contract doesn't cripple them doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea (and hey this could be applied to Lundqvist down the road but let's hope not)

Wasting $5 mill in cap space and real money per year for the next 5 years and passing that off as "well at least it doesn't totally screw us" is a pretty big handwave
 
Well, just because the contract doesn't cripple them doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea (and hey this could be applied to Lundqvist down the road but let's hope not)

Wasting $5 mill in cap space and real money per year for the next 5 years and passing that off as "well at least it doesn't totally screw us" is a pretty big handwave

Boston don't have Savard on their cap nor do they pay him (much at least (20%?).

My point is just this, you gotta quantify a risk. A risk is a risk but you gotta quantify it.

I think 95% at this place see the same future for Clowe. 1-2 more or less struggling years before he checks out like Savard.

Then 5% will come up with the scenario that Clowe will play 4 years while having nothing left and constantly being hurt. I don't think the odds for that is high.

So what is the risk with Clowe really? I wouldn't have signed him to that contract, but like I said, I doubt NJD will be crippled by it. Hence the risk isn't that big. I would wonder more about the upside.
 
Boston don't have Savard on their cap nor do they pay him (much at least (20%?).

My point is just this, you gotta quantify a risk. A risk is a risk but you gotta quantify it.

I think 95% at this place see the same future for Clowe. 1-2 more or less struggling years before he checks out like Savard.

Then 5% will come up with the scenario that Clowe will play 4 years while having nothing left and constantly being hurt. I don't think the odds for that is high.

So what is the risk with Clowe really? I wouldn't have signed him to that contract, but like I said, I doubt NJD will be crippled by it.

Seems like its a pretty big risk when "Well, we probably won't be absolutely crippled by it" is one of the positive points of the contract.
 
Man are there enough people really in Clowe's corner to warrant a discussion about whether not his signing was bad for NJ?

Still mad about that trade.
 
Seems like its a pretty big risk when "Well, we probably won't be absolutely crippled by it" is one of the positive points of the contract.

I agree. But read the above. It absolutely sounds like Lou is putting the future of the org a stakes by signing Clowe.

I see it as a desperate gamble by Lou.

But let be clear about one thing. Teams are almost never or never screwed by players that get injury problems. I think it makes sense to point that out. It's a lot worse to overpay for someone healthy than to sign someone that breaks down.
 
But Savard does count.

Long term injury does not remove him from their cap, it just allows for them to go over the cap. Also in the summer all one way contracts count so it cuts into the 10% overage teams get in the summer.

There is no way that Clowe contract was a good one for the Rangers. For the Devils maybe it's decent, it's not like they are going to be using their overage, not like they have players breaking down to the door to sign there, or they have a bunch of more worthy free agents of their own to sign with that cap space.
 
Off-Side- I've never noticed that Boston has been held back by it...

Also, I think I have pointed it out in every post. But I'll say it again, I don't think WE should have signed Clowe to 5x5. But, I think people overrate the health risk.
 
Who's 1C? And please don't say Stepan. And you're assuming a guy who's in the minors now to jump right to a top 6 role next year? Come on. If Kristo is playing 2nd line rw next year it's gonna be another long ****ing year

Stepan is our 1c right now. He's fine despite having a very rough stretch this last month. Not saying he's ideal as a 1c but is there a 1c available via trade/fa?

People on here were saying Kreider on a top 6 role wouldn't save us. "What has he done to deserve that role?" Kristo is of the same mold. You need talent on your top 6. Kristo has that offensively. I'm confident he'll not only make the team next year but have an impact reminiscent of what Kreider is doing this year.
 
Boston don't have Savard on their cap nor do they pay him (much at least (20%?).

He is on their cap, they just LTIR him. And that's only useful if you are cool with spending to the cap so that you can then overspend it by the amount you're putting on LTIR. For teams that don't want to spend to the cap every year or have an internal cap, it's an issue.

Also whether insurance pays for his contract now is probably something that has to be setup before the injury, when he signed the contract, and not every player has their contract insured from what I've heard.

On top of that, like we saw with the Rangers and Redden for years, the full amount of his cap hit goes on the summer cap and makes it just a bit harder to work within that during the summer.

So what is the risk with Clowe really? I wouldn't have signed him to that contract, but like I said, I doubt NJD will be crippled by it. Hence the risk isn't that big. I would wonder more about the upside.

It's wasted money and cap space, which isn't crippling but isn't smart and is a bad use of resources.
 
I agree. But read the above. It absolutely sounds like Lou is putting the future of the org a stakes by signing Clowe.

I see it as a desperate gamble by Lou.

But let be clear about one thing. Teams are almost never or never screwed by players that get injury problems. I think it makes sense to point that out. It's a lot worse to overpay for someone healthy than to sign someone that breaks down.

I think you make good points but isn't it quite a problem to have a player in and out of the lineup while he transitions to broken-down LTIR mess? The player takes a roster spot, he doesn't play up to his potential and becomes a general distraction.

Only after he is LTIR is he less of a cap problem, but as others have noted, his presence isn't completely forgotten in cap terms.
 
Off-Side- I've never noticed that Boston has been held back by it...

Also, I think I have pointed it out in every post. But I'll say it again, I don't think WE should have signed Clowe to 5x5. But, I think people overrate the health risk.

He does have a point though. The Savard contract does count against the summer cap, meaning Boston doesn't have as much room to maneuver player contracts. Also, Boston can exceed the cap by as much as Savard's cap hit, but do they accumulate cap space if they don't use that cushion? I thought they couldn't, I could be wrong though. That could be troublesome come the trade deadline if they want to add a few large contracts. Obviously it hasn't held them back that much, if at all, but it still seems like a pain.
 
Stepan is our 1c right now. He's fine despite having a very rough stretch this last month. Not saying he's ideal as a 1c but is there a 1c available via trade/fa?

People on here were saying Kreider on a top 6 role wouldn't save us. "What has he done to deserve that role?" Kristo is of the same mold. You need talent on your top 6. Kristo has that offensively. I'm confident he'll not only make the team next year but have an impact reminiscent of what Kreider is doing this year.

Kreider also bunched up and down between the NHL and AHL for a year or so before he sticked. It's not fair to count on a rookie who yet haven't played a single game in the NHL to be an impact player.
 
Last edited:
Stepan is our 1c right now. He's fine despite having a very rough stretch this last month. Not saying he's ideal as a 1c but is there a 1c available via trade/fa?

People on here were saying Kreider on a top 6 role wouldn't save us. "What has he done to deserve that role?" Kristo is of the same mold. You need talent on your top 6. Kristo has that offensively. I'm confident he'll not only make the team next year but have an impact reminiscent of what Kreider is doing this year.

I'm pretty high on Kristo, but I would temper your expectations. Even in the AHL, he's a turnover machine, that's why he hasn't gotten a cup of coffee yet.

He needs to get better defensively and learn to diminish his offensive turnovers, then he will be ready.

I have all the confidence in the world that he will eventually be ready to take on a 2nd or 3rd line role in the NHL, but having a large impact next year may be rushing it a little bit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad