Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Part IX: Dubinsky, Rozsival and a 2nd

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Where does Del Zotto rank on that list?

Below AV but over Sather.

AV trashed Del Zotto's play, and Sather has to do damage control now in any deal. Sather didn't tell AV to trash Del Zotto to the media, and I can't imagine he condoned it. Torts could hide MDZ's deficiencies, AV either cannot, or chooses not to; but then again AV is an inferior coach to Torts.
 
And respect is a luxury I guess. He isn't exceptional for any age. Not for a 23 year old or a 5th year pro.

And save your assumptions for yourself. I've been against the "shiny new toys" approach since before two lockouts. But I have learned when to cut bait and when to be patient. MDZ's time is up.

And yet, you are still wrong. Don't whine for respect. Earn it. You griped about something that I never said ("MDZ is exceptional now?") and then proceeded to imply that I was "in love with" and "enamored" of a player, causing bias. You mis-read (intentionally or otherwise) what I wrote and then tried to throw it in my face. You invited disrespect, and frankly, I held back a bit.

Feel free to go find one of my earlier posts where I already posted the numbers, but the reality is this: Most of the current top PMDs in the league had done nothing, nothing by the age of 23. Yeah, there are a few here and there, but where we draft? We aren't going to get that guy who is a fully developed superstar by the age of 23. Development takes time.

So you can whine all you want about feeling disrespected, and you can think that you're something special with your "through two lockouts" nonsense (for what it's worth, I've been following this team since the mid-80s). It doesn't change the fact that thinking that a 23 year old with solid defense and a 35 point career average is a player to "cut bait" on is idiotic. THAT thinking, which goes back well before 2005, is what caused the dark ages. That thinking is why we developed guys like Marc Savard, Tony Amonte, Doug Weight, etc etc etc, only to watch them become top players somewhere else.

Yeah, he's been here for five years. That doesn't change the fact that he's still learning and growing. His best years are ahead of him, and trading him for players whose best years don't exist is the height of Ranger stupidity (a special brand of stupidity trademarked in the late 90s, early aughts).
 
I think Sather has effectively driven Del Zotto's trade value into the toilet, so I'm not holding out hope for a fleecing.

fear not. just like every trade sather makes the initial reaction will be that he robbed the other team...then 6 weeks later we'll have 10 threads about how we should trade the guy we acquired for a bag of pucks because in reality sather didn't fleece anyone and was the one that got taken.
 
And yet, you are still wrong. Don't whine for respect. Earn it. You griped about something that I never said ("MDZ is exceptional now?") and then proceeded to imply that I was "in love with" and "enamored" of a player, causing bias. You mis-read (intentionally or otherwise) what I wrote and then tried to throw it in my face. You invited disrespect, and frankly, I held back a bit.

Feel free to go find one of my earlier posts where I already posted the numbers, but the reality is this: Most of the current top PMDs in the league had done nothing, nothing by the age of 23. Yeah, there are a few here and there, but where we draft? We aren't going to get that guy who is a fully developed superstar by the age of 23. Development takes time.

So you can whine all you want about feeling disrespected, and you can think that you're something special with your "through two lockouts" nonsense (for what it's worth, I've been following this team since the mid-80s). It doesn't change the fact that thinking that a 23 year old with solid defense and a 35 point career average is a player to "cut bait" on is idiotic. THAT thinking, which goes back well before 2005, is what caused the dark ages. That thinking is why we developed guys like Marc Savard, Tony Amonte, Doug Weight, etc etc etc, only to watch them become top players somewhere else.

Yeah, he's been here for five years. That doesn't change the fact that he's still learning and growing. His best years are ahead of him, and trading him for players whose best years don't exist is the height of Ranger stupidity (a special brand of stupidity trademarked in the late 90s, early aughts).

Its not about numbers, but if that's what fanboys want to cling to that is what they will do. His play is sub par. He is a defensive liability and he can't keep the puck in at the blueline. He faces lesser competition and is still beaten. His numbers are inflated from pp time, especially early in his career. He was better in his early seasons but through a lack of confidence or poor work ethic his play is on the decline.

And no, a basic level of respect for fellow posters is not earned. The boards are overly policed except when it comes to the disrespectful and demeaning way posters disagree. But since the inmates run the asylum we are losing the few quality posters with connections and insight.

I'm not even asking for respect towards me. I jumped in here because one of our best members is getting crapped on for his well informed opinion. You don't have to agree with RB, but you can assume he is making an educated And informed post.
 
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No he doesn't. The guys you listed with DZ are based on perceptual sentiments of this board. DZ may only end up as a technically proficient defender under a certain system, but during that said system he played top 4 minutes. Has done so with Staal out. None of those defenseman in the latter grouping, outside of Schultz whose been handed his minutes, play regularly in the top 4. None are reliable top 4 minute munchers.

The last two seasons the Rangers are well over 30 games above .500 with DZ playing top 4 minutes, and he wasn't exactly a minus player.

The guys I listed with DZ were the 2008 draft class. His draft. No way anyone in their right mind would even put DZ in the same conversation with Karlsson, Pietrangelo or Doughty. The Rangers did not pick early enough to get any of those 3 but IMO John Carlson would have been a better pick than DZ. They could have had him. They could also have had Voynov or Hamonic.

Of the second group you overlooked Luke Schenn whose NHL career started even earlier than DZ's and I overlooked Luca Sbisa who's got somewhere near the same experience as DZ. They are more stay at home types and IMO are about equal to DZ value wise. And then there's Jason Demers who has been a regular in San Jose since his draft year.

DZ's accomplishments pale compare to Karlsson (Norris trophy winner) and the best offensive d-man in the league--pale compared to Pietrangelo (one of the top 5 d-men in the league) and pale compared to Doughty and Voynov (key components of the 2012 Stanley Cup championship team). Carlson really is a top 4 and has been so for some time with the Capitals. He doesn't need a player to get injured to move up. Hamonic is arguably the Isles best defenseman--not particularly great offensively (but IMO neither is DZ--even if DZ is somewhat better).

Here is a main problem I have with DZ--his lack of progress over the last two years is making his arbitration eligible upcoming negotiation this summer problematic. To qualify him we will have to offer him close to $3 mil per. IMO he's hardly worth that. If he takes the team to arbitration and gets a $4 mil per year settlement he's way overpriced. 7 points in 31 games this year--average defender in his own end. Not good value. Personally I don't think this guy has enough drive to get better. I'd cut bait--get the best deal I could for him.
 
The Senators have spoken to the Rangers several times in the last six weeks about defenceman Michael Del Zotto but aren't alone in their pursuit. The Leafs and Shark have held talks and a report in the New York Post says Colorado has shown interest as well.

Sources say if the Senators are to close a deal for the 23-year-old Del Zotto _ who many believe is on the verge of being moved with GM Glen Sather desperate to make a trade _ the asking price has to change.

It's believed the Rangers have been demanding blueliner Marc Methot in return for Delo Zotto. That isn't going to happen but the Senators may be willing to exchange Patrick Wiercioch, who was a healthy scratch for the fourth straight game Friday and has upside potential.

"Del Zotto's value has gone down," said a league executive Friday. "He hasn't shown any consistency and he's not worth nearly as much as he may have been earlier in the season."

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/12/27...-zotto?token=27b3d9586bd51ab99f0f37435dc93c39

So the value is down based on a sample size of less than 40 games?

Can the Rangers get Nieto from San Jose as part of the deal?
 
http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/12/27...-zotto?token=27b3d9586bd51ab99f0f37435dc93c39

So the value is down based on a sample size of less than 40 games?

Can the Rangers get Nieto from San Jose as part of the deal?

Senators obviously using Garrioch to propagate this deal. 'One league 'executive'? What a load of bs. We will see where it winds up when all is said and done. Pretty sure that MDZ will be dealt though. The Detroit talk has gone cold though. I see " the desperate" Glen Sather pulling a rabbit outta a hat from left field here though. Something nobody has seen coming.
PS - excuse my excessive overuse of the word "though" above
 
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of negotiating through the media going on right now. We all know how porous the Rangers organization is when they want to be. Others are too.
 
Del Zotto was supposed to be a top pick in the 2008 draft. He was mentioned in the same discussion with Doughty and Pietrangelo. Didn't have a great year in his draft year. He dropped in the first round. Staal and McDonagh kept improving and didn't take any steps back. Even when their play plateaued,both of them were solid. Injuries have hurt Staal. The Rangers should have sold earlier on DZ. Its not playing the "stock market". Its evaluating your players and moving them when they have value. You should know your players better than the other teams and say "this guy isn't getting any better so lets move him before the other teams figure it out too". The only difference with DZ from this season to last season was Vigneault had no patience for him. Del Zotto wasn't great last season either. He was OK. That executive quoted in the Garrioch story discussed Del Zotto's play this season as being the problem. Its his play in other seasons too but other teams weren't paying attention. Del Zotto's play in recent games has been better with more ice time.
 
This is the type of fanatical ******** that makes it impossible to have any sort of intelligent conversation about the player. Show me one post that "wants him gone no matter what".

Do you pray to st zucc at night?


Nothing fanatical about hoping that a small minority of posters would give a Ranger player a fair shot.

The handful of haters imply they want MZA gone no matter what. They do not come outright and say it.

I root for all the Rangers players to do well. Who do you root for?
 
@Dagoon44 Told Rangers working the phones and something is up besides MDZ.. might be a shock.. looking for D and top 6
 
@Dagoon44 Told Rangers working the phones and something is up besides MDZ.. might be a shock.. looking for D and top 6

Aha. Just as I implied earlier out of left field. It will go down today most likely. Dagoon has good sources in the org even after Mess left. Interesting!
 
DaGoon actually broke a thing or two here, didn't he? Maybe? I think its kinda funny to see his twitter posted like that though. Not because he's not informed. Just cause. Anyone can tweet.
 
DaGoon actually broke a thing or two here, didn't he? Maybe? I think its kinda funny to see his twitter posted like that though. Not because he's not informed. Just cause. Anyone can tweet.

I find it funny that someone can get attention with a tweet so mundane and ambiguous -- then again, that always seems to be the point with this guy.
 
Aha. Just as I implied earlier out of left field. It will go down today most likely. Dagoon has good sources in the org even after Mess left. Interesting!

If that turns out to be the case, it just reinforces something I've noticed, which is that people reporting on sources often are on the right trail, but just as often miss the actual deal.
 
Regardless, Ill continue to stick with guys that are employed by bigtime news outlets, rather than guys that quite clearly pine to be an insider/big shot.

McKenzie is usually reliable. Rest of theMSM guys report a lot of clueless squat and are part of a bigger plan that I am not going to get into here...
 
I love trade rumors ( in both hockey and baseball) and absolutely get caught up in the mania. Every single time.

That said, I'd hate to see us simply give Del Zotto away. I like him, and if he puts it together could really be a long term force for us/someone.
 
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