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Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Part IX: Dubinsky, Rozsival and a 2nd

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I really doubt Patches is available (though I've definitely seen sillier things occur...) but if he is, truly, it will cost more than we'd be willing to give. You have to expect the demand starts with Kreider, and I just don't wanna see that at all. I know what Patches is, and I know we really could use him... but we need to add him to Kreider, not subtract Kreider to get him. I really don't see what package could work for both of us.

We're either creating a hole to get him, or they're not getting good value in exchange when considering what he brings to their team.
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
People saying trade MZA make me laugh.

if he was bigger he'd be a better player, sure. So would anybody in the league. Chara would be better if he was 7'1.

But he's not bigger. And he's still a great player. Trading him would be an awful move.
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Bryan Boyle is pretty tall.

The MZA hate from a handful of posters at this point should shock me but sadly it does not. I had hoped by now they would open their minds about him.

It does not matter how Zooks plays.
It does not matter what his salary is.
It does not matter how much he values being a NY Ranger.

They want him gone no matter what.

The reality is that it is not about Zooks.
It is not about the team.
Its about them.
 
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Stasis said:
RB is basically one of the only reasons I still read these forums.

Between the insane levels of over moderation (not specifically referring to the NYR subsection, but the site in general), to the bipolar hyperbolic nature of so many fans, it's just so much poo to sift through. He's one of the few bright spots. His updates and usually very good analysis.

I don't wanna sound like I'm sucking up here, but if you read this RB... please keep posting and ignore the ridiculous.
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Rangerboy, like everyone else on here, is perfectly capable (and guilty of) adding to the ridiculous as well. He does some things phenomenally well, and he is a great asset to these boards, but that does not make him the teflon poster.

He's been wrong before, and I think he's wrong now. Why he (and some other posters) want to ride MDZ out of town on a lynch wagon, I will never understand. Was it the slight delay in signing his last contract? Was it the 2-leather jackets photo? No idea, but MDZ has done exceptionally well for a 23 year old defenseman. Aside from McDonagh, I can't remember a single defenseman who has done as well as MDZ at his age since Leetch (who obviously was much much better).

Here's some food for thought. When the "trade Del Zotto for a grinder and a ham sandwich" crowd was accused of just hating the kid for no objective reason, they all claimed-- "No, we don't hate him at all. We just have a log-jam at LD. Blah blah blah." Staal is out with another concussion. Before the concussion, he looked like a pale shadow of his former self. Moore was given every opportunity to fill that hole, and looked ridiculously bad trying to pretend he was a legit top 4 player. Who was it that stepped up, filled that gap (finally back on the proper side) and looked MUCH better? Yup. Del Zotto. Log jam is gone, gentlemen. Since Staal went out, Del Zotto has been our second best defenseman, and it's not particularly close (though to be fair, Stralman has had a string of uncharacteristically bad games).

We move Del Zotto, and we end up with exactly one reliable, top 4 caliber, left-sided defenseman. I realize that the goat label has already been placed on him, which means that 90% of you will just call me an idiot or some such, but the reality is there for anyone to see. 90% of you called me an idiot for being against the Nash trade as well. I was an idiot then because I worried about his contract, because I didn't believe that he would suddenly become an 80 point player off of Columbus, and because I thought his lazy attitude would kill the tight locker room. Now, those same people who called me an idiot make posts about how hindsight is 50/50. Yeah, it is, but foresight is not difficult to have when you aren't blinded by every shiny new toy that comes your way.

If they trade Del Zotto, it will be a huge mistake. He will be better than any new toy that we would get in trade. Feel free to bookmark this and bring it back up in a couple of years, when the grinders, borderline NHL'ers and lesser accomplished D who you want are out of the NHL and MDZ is in his prime.
 
MDZ is exceptional now? That is ridiculous, not RB's insightful posts.

People fall in love with players, that's expected and part of being a fan. But being enamored with anyone on this team outside of McDonagh and in my opinion Kreider is flat out bias.
 
NickyFotiu said:
Bryan Boyle is pretty tall.

The MZA hate from a handful of posters at this point should shock me but sadly it does not. I had hoped by now they would open their minds about him.

It does not matter how Zooks plays.
It does not matter what his salary is.
It does not matter how much he values being a NY Ranger.

They want him gone no matter what.

The reality is that it is not about Zooks.
It is not about the team.
Its about them.
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This is the type of fanatical ******** that makes it impossible to have any sort of intelligent conversation about the player. Show me one post that "wants him gone no matter what".

Do you pray to st zucc at night?
 
DutchShamrock said:
MDZ is exceptional now? That is ridiculous, not RB's insightful posts.

People fall in love with players, that's expected and part of being a fan. But being enamored with anyone on this team outside of McDonagh and in my opinion Kreider is flat out bias.
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Reading is fundamental. Exceptional for a 23 year old defenseman. People are up in arms that Del Zotto is inconsistent and doesn't play like the top PMD's in the game. Take a look at what those top PMD's had accomplished by the age of 23. Outside of a couple of outliers, most of them hadn't accomplished half of what Del Zotto has. The question is not "is Del Zotto exceptional or worthless." The question (for those of us not blinded by the promise of new toys) is "why the **** are so many people expecting a 23 year old defenseman to be a finished product"?
 
Doesn't matter who's in net if you're offensively challenged. Trade DZ and Girardi for more d-men, maybe we'll start a trend dressing 15 defensemen a game
 
smoneil said:
Reading is fundamental. Exceptional for a 23 year old defenseman. People are up in arms that Del Zotto is inconsistent and doesn't play like the top PMD's in the game. Take a look at what those top PMD's had accomplished by the age of 23. Outside of a couple of outliers, most of them hadn't accomplished half of what Del Zotto has. The question is not "is Del Zotto exceptional or worthless." The question (for those of us not blinded by the promise of new toys) is "why the **** are so many people expecting a 23 year old defenseman to be a finished product"?
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Just taking a look at his 2008 draft class--there are a number of other D who have accomplished more or are better all around players or are still getting better. If the 2008 draft were done all over again--I'd figure DZ to be drafted anywhere between 15 and 22. He's by no means a bust and there were busts but I'd easily take all of Erik Karlsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Drew Doughty, Zach Bogosian, Vyacheslav Voynov, Travis Hamonic and Tyler Myers over him. DZ fits more in the same group as Justin Schultz, Luke Schenn, Patrick Wiercioch, Jake Gardiner and Jason Demers. I'd probably take Schultz over him too.
 
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smoneil said:
The question (for those of us not blinded by the promise of new toys) is "why the **** are so many people expecting a 23 year old defenseman to be a finished product"?
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They've seen him for 5 years and seen him hit his potential. There's nothing to hype up or talk about, so he's a whipping boy.

We're seeing John Moore go through this as well. No signs of taking a top 4 role and him too will be a whipping boy. Not to say that either are bad players, but there's just nothing to wet the pants over if you know what I mean.

Young defensmen make mistakes, its just that this fan base will overlook them for a certain period, and then suddenly all of a sudden after a stretch of games where big hits and stats aren't being piled up, the bias all of a sudden goes away, and the whipping starts.

Been happening for years, ain't nothing new.
 
eco's bones said:
Just taking a look at his 2008 draft class--there are a number of other D who have accomplished more or are better all around players or are still getting better. If the 2008 draft were done all over again--I'd figure DZ to be drafted anywhere between 15 and 22. He's by no means a bust and there were busts but I'd easily take all of Erik Karlsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Drew Doughty, Zach Bogosian, Vyacheslav Voynov, Travis Hamonic and Tyler Myers over him. DZ fits more in the same group as Justin Schultz, Luke Schenn, Patrick Wiercioch, Jake Gardiner and Jason Demers. I'd probably take Schultz over him too.
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No he doesn't. The guys you listed with DZ are based on perceptual sentiments of this board. DZ may only end up as a technically proficient defender under a certain system, but during that said system he played top 4 minutes. Has done so with Staal out. None of those defenseman in the latter grouping, outside of Schultz whose been handed his minutes, play regularly in the top 4. None are reliable top 4 minute munchers.

The last two seasons the Rangers are well over 30 games above .500 with DZ playing top 4 minutes, and he wasn't exactly a minus player.
 
Clowe Knows Best said:
In Gordie we trust! Overrated beyond belief. Outside of Miller there's no other forward we drafted that will be a top 6 talent some day
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Laughably false.

2006
Anisimov -2/3

2007
Cherepanov - 1/2
Hagelin - 2

2008
Stepan - 1/2

2009
Kreider - 1/2

Jury is still out 2010-present, but to just make up things to fit your agenda is disingenuous.
 
Trxjw said:
There's always a catch, right? We haven't drafted any top-six forwards.. you know, aside from the ones we did draft.
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Yes that's why we're such a juggernaut out there. Who posted the stat? We've had one draftee score 60 points in a season over the past 20 years? But there's a catch somewhere
 
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