Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2019-20 Part II

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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
31,637
10,551
Montreal, Canada
Valid point with Kelly. I'm just not sure Spezza is the right guy for that. I just don't know where I'd play him. Sure we could be a slow PP specialist, but we already have one of those, and he's sitting in the press box most nights. I just don't see what he brings to the table on the ice that Bobby Ryan can't.

I always hard a hard time following this board logic. Ryan and Spezza have basically declined at the same time 2-3 years ago however Ryan has almost doubled up his offensive production (~0.54 PPG vs ~0.34 PPG). They are both under average skaters at this point and seem to lack intensity compared to the Beaudins of this world because they're tall, slow and not as dynamic as when they were in their prime. They are both skilled finesse players and with hockey becoming faster and faster, that type of player has less time and space on the ice to express themselves. Even with high skill, you need to be fast, dynamic and strong in today's NHL. Basically, the average NHL hockey player has to be more and more complete nowadays

That type of player is not what Ottawa is looking for at the moment, they have that "blue collar" mentality where the Sabourins and Beaudins of this world would play over the Spezzas and Ryans. That's cute and everything but skill is also very important lol.

Not sure how many Ottawa forwards will be able to maintain a PPG over 0.54 this year... lol we'll see

And it's crazy how little respect many hockey fans have for hockey players that worked their ass off (yes, even Bobby Ryan!) to be good enough to have a long and successful career in the NHL. Of course they end up declining because aging is natural and injuries just accelerate the process. But not expecting much anymore, this is the internet and the average emotional intelligence and empathy about anything that is opinionated is pretty low.

Trading Ryan for Spezza would be great because of the salary difference, it would put a lot of money in Melnyk's pocket but it also wouldn't happen because Toronto don't have the cap space for that. If Ryan is traded, it would be for another veteran with a significant cap hit for the next 2 years (but could be less salary like Eriksson which is what the Sens are truly seeking!)

Another point is how much they lack foresight in Ottawa. You have Ryan signed at 7.25 for the next 2 seasons and his salary owed is 15 M$. You'd think that they would put him in a position to succeed to be able to trade him for somebody less expensive (perfect example Loui Eriksson). Instead he plays 10-12 mins a game with Tyler Ennis and Chris Tierney lol. If the Canucks can't have the proof that he could produce more than Eriksson and be more useful, then why would they make that swap? Money is important for them too.

And there is no point in "WINNING" this year *. They won't make the playoffs, not even close. Hard work is cool but without a 1st line and another top pairing D-man, at some point there's nothing you can do. They really should be asset and MONEY oriented (what forced us into a rebuild in the first place) and Ryan now has been scapegoated and DJ was able to kill all the relative value that Bobby rebuilt since the 2017 playoffs. Truly brilliant I tell you!

* The team doesn't have any proven 1st liner at the moment after trading Duchene, Stone, Hoffman, Zibanejad. Tkachuk, Brown and Batherson have a chance but they won't ever be superstars. The context forces them to TANK this season and draft a high end forward prospect, or if not, they could forced to wait a few years to get him another way and screw up this whole rebuild as the result.
 
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Stylizer1

Teflon Don
Jun 12, 2009
19,884
3,977
Ottabot City
Big difference 5 years later... Spezza declined and has a 700 000$ salary now.

Spezza declined 2 years after being traded, in the end it was a good decision to not sign him at 7 M$ per year for several years. Even Dallas was somewhat cautious with "only" a 4 year deal
Disagree 100%

He would have had Stone, Hoffman, and Dzingle up front to play with and Turris would have fit perfectly on the second line. If we make the Duchene trade along with Karlsson on the back end we remain very good. That would be the depth everyone was waiting for under Murray's time.

What Spezza was for Ottawa was very different to what he was in Dallas. Ottawa was Spezza's team and he was the Captain he would have started slowing down but not at the same rate as in Dallas.

If Spezza was on that 14-15 team we would have had 4 players with 80 points.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,838
7,818
Big difference 5 years later... Spezza declined and has a 700 000$ salary now.

Spezza declined 2 years after being traded, in the end it was a good decision to not sign him at 7 M$ per year for several years. Even Dallas was somewhat cautious with "only" a 4 year deal

Loved Spezza, agreed with trading him, hated the trade return
 

Stylizer1

Teflon Don
Jun 12, 2009
19,884
3,977
Ottabot City
It's simple math. He's on pace for 60 points right now with 10% of the PP time as Brady. If he got 3 PP points in addition to his current point total, a not unreasonable amount, he's be on pace for 77 points. That's first line production.
Mid season slumps are always tough on non elite players. Unless he can channel Daniel Briere I see him topping out at maybe 50 points.
 

thinkwild

Veni Vidi Toga
Jul 29, 2003
11,046
1,714
Ottawa
Oh that is such a hard decision around Pageau. I remember a conventional wisdom of years ago that one of the best trade deadline acquisitions ever was the Isles getting Butch Goring. And Pageau would look to be a very similar type of astute pickup that can really bring a critical playoff support role to a contender.

But then for Pageau, he has to think hard that he has a good thing here and it doesn’t always work out looking for a bigger pay day when you are in a great role already. Hard decision both sides.

It seems just a short while ago that we traded Fisher and Kelly, got three 1st rounders and a young JGP almost making it feel like a 0 year rebuild. I’ll be okay whichever way this turns out on him this year, not sure I can bring myself to decide.
 

AchtzehnBaby

Global Matador
Mar 28, 2013
15,487
9,346
Hazeldean Road
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-120...kes-to-help-a-team-win-i-will-do-it-1.1394624

At what price point would signing Marc Methot make sense?

If he's healthy and just looking for a year or two at reasonable money, I think he'd be perfect.

I love Methot. He is a smart guy and the players like him. After listening to this interview, he is not close yet. He's doing it all on his own. Commendable.

He is really trying to stay in Ottawa. Not sure what his relationship is with the Ottawa Organization is these days. If he was in tighter, maybe they would have him using their trainers and doctors to rehab.

He's played 45 games since he left us. It's a long road at this age.

Again, it would be great to have him in the fold, but i think it is a remote chance.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
35,400
9,819
A lot of our moves this year will depend on what Pageau wants. He can say whatever to the media, but does he really want to stay on a rebuilding team? Or does he want to use this year to get the best money he can in the summer (or with whoever trades for him)?

That's what makes things so difficult, as we are missing key information to make a good decision.


My own personal thought...if we can get a 1st in 2020 for Pageau, I'd pull the trigger. Then I would try and package that first, along with the SJ first at the draft (assuming SJ ends up outside the top 12 or so) and try to get a 1st in the top 6-10 or so. And if the SJ pick ends up in the top 10, perhaps add an expendable prospect to the Pageau first and try to move up into the 10-15 range. Like others say, we have a bunch of picks and prospects....might as well try to package a few to move up in what is supposed to be a really good draft. Would be the perfect time to do it, as some teams will likely have multiple targets all over the first round and want those extra picks.
 

RAFI BOMB

Registered User
May 11, 2016
7,638
8,099
Just looking at the potential UFA market and the style of hockey the Sens seem to be trying to play I could see them having some interest in the following free agents: Charlie Coyle, Chris Kreider, Zemgus Girgensons, Tyler Toffoli, Zack Kassian and Kyle Clifford up front and Radko Gudas, Brenden Dillon, Zach Bogosian and Dmitry Kulikov on the back end.

Given the recent talk about the Sens free agents, I thought I would mention some the potential UFA's this offseason.
 
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GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
16,656
10,866
Just looking at the potential UFA market and the style of hockey the Sens seem to be trying to play I could see them having some interest in the following free agents: Charlie Coyle, Chris Kreider, Zemgus Girgensons, Tyler Toffoli, Zack Kassian and Kyle Clifford up front and Radko Gudas, Brenden Dillon, Zach Bogosian and Dmitry Kulikov on the back end.

Given the recent talk about the Sens free agents, I thought I would mention some the potential UFA's this offseason.
No to all except a 1 year on Bogosian to see if he can get it together.
 

TheNewEra

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
8,211
3,628
Decisions come before the summer on quite a few of these I would imagine


From the ufas
maybe bring back demelo depending on cost
bring back namestnikov on a 2 year deal max (preferably a 1 year deal like duclair)
trade every other ufa (except maybe pageau if he signs a good deal but if pageau can get us the rumored 1st+spec you take that and run)

rfa's
bring all of them back

buyout both ryan and anisimov

projected lineup (just filling in lines obviously we need to add talent to the team, not doing any projected promotions or anything)

Tkachuk-White-Namestnikov
Duclair-Brown-C. Brown
Paul-Tierney-Chlapik
add 3 forwards, preferably through fa's trade and maybe 1 promotion

Chabot-Zaistev
Brannstrom-Demelo
Wolanin
sign a RD please and then promote someone from belleville as our 7th d

Nilsson
most likely promote a goalie here
 

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,326
From the ufas
maybe bring back demelo depending on cost
bring back namestnikov on a 2 year deal max (preferably a 1 year deal like duclair)
trade every other ufa (except maybe pageau if he signs a good deal but if pageau can get us the rumored 1st+spec you take that and run)

rfa's
bring all of them back

buyout both ryan and anisimov

projected lineup (just filling in lines obviously we need to add talent to the team, not doing any projected promotions or anything)

Tkachuk-White-Namestnikov
Duclair-Brown-C. Brown
Paul-Tierney-Chlapik
add 3 forwards, preferably through fa's trade and maybe 1 promotion

Chabot-Zaistev
Brannstrom-Demelo
Wolanin
sign a RD please and then promote someone from belleville as our 7th d

Nilsson
most likely promote a goalie here

Bringing back the UFA’s after the season means outbidding 30 teams and overpaying to live in Ottawa on a rebuilding team with high taxes. Feels expensive.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,838
7,818
I wouldn’t trade make this trade today, and to make this trade 1 year ago would of been GM of the Year stuff:

Ott: Scvechnikov, Zadina
NHL: Tkachuk
 
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TheDebater

Peace be upon you
Mar 10, 2016
6,251
6,003
Ottawa
I always hard a hard time following this board logic. Ryan and Spezza have basically declined at the same time 2-3 years ago however Ryan has almost doubled up his offensive production (~0.54 PPG vs ~0.34 PPG). They are both under average skaters at this point and seem to lack intensity compared to the Beaudins of this world because they're tall, slow and not as dynamic as when they were in their prime. They are both skilled finesse players and with hockey becoming faster and faster, that type of player has less time and space on the ice to express themselves. Even with high skill, you need to be fast, dynamic and strong in today's NHL. Basically, the average NHL hockey player has to be more and more complete nowadays

That type of player is not what Ottawa is looking for at the moment, they have that "blue collar" mentality where the Sabourins and Beaudins of this world would play over the Spezzas and Ryans. That's cute and everything but skill is also very important lol.

Not sure how many Ottawa forwards will be able to maintain a PPG over 0.54 this year... lol we'll see

And it's crazy how little respect many hockey fans have for hockey players that worked their ass off (yes, even Bobby Ryan!) to be good enough to have a long and successful career in the NHL. Of course they end up declining because aging is natural and injuries just accelerate the process. But not expecting much anymore, this is the internet and the average emotional intelligence and empathy about anything that is opinionated is pretty low.

Trading Ryan for Spezza would be great because of the salary difference, it would put a lot of money in Melnyk's pocket but it also wouldn't happen because Toronto don't have the cap space for that. If Ryan is traded, it would be for another veteran with a significant cap hit for the next 2 years (but could be less salary like Eriksson which is what the Sens are truly seeking!)

Another point is how much they lack foresight in Ottawa. You have Ryan signed at 7.25 for the next 2 seasons and his salary owed is 15 M$. You'd think that they would put him in a position to succeed to be able to trade him for somebody less expensive (perfect example Loui Eriksson). Instead he plays 10-12 mins a game with Tyler Ennis and Chris Tierney lol. If the Canucks can't have the proof that he could produce more than Eriksson and be more useful, then why would they make that swap? Money is important for them too.

And there is no point in "WINNING" this year *. They won't make the playoffs, not even close. Hard work is cool but without a 1st line and another top pairing D-man, at some point there's nothing you can do. They really should be asset and MONEY oriented (what forced us into a rebuild in the first place) and Ryan now has been scapegoated and DJ was able to kill all the relative value that Bobby rebuilt since the 2017 playoffs. Truly brilliant I tell you!

* The team doesn't have any proven 1st liner at the moment after trading Duchene, Stone, Hoffman, Zibanejad. Tkachuk, Brown and Batherson have a chance but they won't ever be superstars. The context forces them to TANK this season and draft a high end forward prospect, or if not, they could forced to wait a few years to get him another way and screw up this whole rebuild as the result.

Difference between Spezza and Ryan is that Spezza between the ages of 29-32 was putting up 84 points, 66 points, 62 points, whereas Ryan at the same age was putting up 25, 33 and 42 points. Spezza is 36, Ryan is 32...it is to be expected that the player over 35 is in a decline and nearing the end of his career, but what is the excuse for a guy who still has 4 seasons before he gets to 36?
 
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Alex1234

Registered User
Oct 14, 2014
16,558
6,706
I wouldn’t trade make this trade today, and to make this trade 1 year ago would of been GM of the Year stuff:

Ott: Scvechnikov, Zadina
NHL: Tkachuk
So we trade trade Tkatchuk to the NHL for the 2 Carolinas and Detroit players or ?
 
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