Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2019-20 Part II

[bert]

JP isn't chopped liver himself, and the Sens will need bodies back if they ship out higher priced vets (Pageau, Hainsey, Namestnikov, Anderson).

I mean, maybe the Sens get a higher pick back, that's entirely possible, but the prize is Pulju, who should/would hold a heck of a lot more value for this franchise than Tierney. Personally I wouldn't balk at this deal if it ended up happening, and I sure as heck wouldn't risk pushing for a higher pick if I was Dorion and be risk being caught with my pants down when Holland ships JP eslewhere.

I'd rather get back the right piece for the rebuild than the right value (in futures) if that makes sense.

Leverage Edmonton has none. Tierney has proven alot more, I think its a deal the sens should make I am just explaining the value.

Sens will still be over the cap floor after they trade the players they should. Thanks to Anisimov, Ryan and Boedker who are immovable at this point.

 

[Micklebot]

If Ottawa is taking a bad contract like that they dont have to add a pick thats for sure. Ottawa says no, Tierney is very underated around here froma value perspective for some strange reason.

I'm thinking it's a bit of a response mechanism gone too far to the over hyping we got from Dorion; "more assists than Stone" probably wasn't the wisest way to endear fans to one of the less heralded assets Karlsson returned.

Tierney is far from perfect, and I've been critical of him in the past, but he is definitely a quality middle 6 forward that can play in multiple situations. There's value there for sure particularly because he's an RFA not UFA

 

[stempniaksen]

Leverage Edmonton has none. Tierney has proven alot more, I think its a deal the sens should make I am just explaining the value.

Sens will still be over the cap floor after they trade the players they should. Thanks to Anisimov, Ryan and Boedker who are immovable at this point.

Yeah, I totally get it. If we were discussing a draft pick based package I'd be the one arguing to recover as much value as possible. I think I'm just willing to overlook "value" as the ultimate goal if it means adding a talented, young, NHL ready player. In my mind, Tierney isn't part of the long-term plan for this franchise, if PD thinks JP can be a piece of the core moving forward I think it's a deal he needs to make. I think it's just a mixture of being being (slightly) lower on Tierney than the concensus and (significantly) higher on JP than most on the Sens board.

 

[swiftwin]

Now if the Sens were really smart and they wanted JP then send Tierney (assuming that's something Holland wants) half retained for JP AFTER Dec 1st. Because we retain and don't get a player this year we take a 2nd rounder. At 1.5M prorated, Edmonton could add CT and send a player down to the AHL while only adding 600K prorated.

Dec 2nd
To EDM - Chris Teirney 50% retained
To OTT - Rights to JP and Edmonton 2020 2nd.

Fits in the cap for Edmonton and Ottawa saves actual dollars this year.

No way in hell.

People around here are massively underrating Tierney.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, I totally get it. If we were discussing a draft pick based package I'd be the one arguing to recover as much value as possible. I think I'm just willing to overlook "value" as the ultimate goal if it means adding a talented, young, NHL ready player. In my mind, Tierney isn't part of the long-term plan for this franchise, if PD thinks JP can be a piece of the core moving forward I think it's a deal he needs to make. I think it's just a mixture of being being (slightly) lower on Tierney than the concensus and (significantly) higher on JP than most on the Sens board.

I'd love to land Puljujarvi, but as others have mentioned, oilers have very little leverage in a trade. Weren't they asking for a 2nd and a prospect a while back? Tierney seems like overpayment if that was their ask.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I've never seen a player so gifted at hitting the score sheet without actually contributing to goals than Chris Tierney.

Assuming teams actually scout players nowadays and don't simply go by their hockeydb page, we'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Tierney.

 

[GCK]

No way in hell.

People around here are massively underrating Tierney.

I’m surprised by that reaction. What do you feel Tierney could net between now and the TDL ?

 

[stempniaksen]

I'd love to land Puljujarvi, but as others have mentioned, oilers have very little leverage in a trade. Weren't they asking for a 2nd and a prospect a while back? Tierney seems like overpayment if that was their ask.

All I've ever seen reported was them looking for immediate middle-six help. I'm not sure what a pick and a prospect does for them at this point in time.

The Oilers don't have very much leverage, but neither does Puljujarvi. If this was still Chiarelli I'm be more open to PD playing a game of chicken with him, but I think Holland has enough rope to be patient. If he doesn't get what he's looking for I'm fully expecting JP to play out the year in Finland and both sides will re-evaluate in the summer.

And I mean, if we're gonna talk about JP's value being a 2nd + prospect, isn't that (roughly) what most Senators fans are looking for if the team ships him off for futures? In my mind those two guys have roughly equivalent value, personally, I'd rather take the shot on the younger piece with the higher perceived upside given where the Sens are at in the rebuild.

 

[aragorn]

If PD could get a 2nd rd pick & JP for Tierny, I think he takes that in a heartbeat & runs. IMO it would be one or the other for Tierny but not both, even if Ottawa retained some of the salary. And I would like to see Ottawa move Tierny sooner rather than later. I just don't think that Edm would do this.

If Edm wants a 2nd rd pick & a prospect I might look at trading Balcers with Ottawa's LV 2nd rd pick. With the depth that Ottawa has on the left side they can afford to trade Balcers for a RWer who may be able to play on Ottawa's 3rd or 4th line RW. This wouldn't add to their salary cap as Balcers can still play in the AHL & be called up when needed.

 

[Micklebot]

All I've ever seen reported was them looking for immediate middle-six help. I'm not sure what a pick and a prospect does for them at this point in time.

The Oilers don't have very much leverage, but neither does Puljujarvi. If this was still Chiarelli I'm be more open to PD playing a game of chicken with him, but I think Holland has enough rope to be patient. If he doesn't get what he's looking for I'm fully expecting JP to play out the year in Finland and both sides will re-evaluate in the summer.

And I mean, if we're gonna talk about JP's value being a 2nd + prospect, isn't that (roughly) what most Senators fans are looking for if the team ships him off for futures? In my mind those two guys have roughly equivalent value, personally, I'd rather take the shot on the younger piece with the higher perceived upside given where the Sens are at in the rebuild.

It was apparently Garrioch that mentioned it, I think it was during an intermission, so all I could find is a Senschirp tweet



Edmonton has almost no cap space, so adding a middle six roster player is a tough feat to accomplish. I guess maybe they want someone on a ELC or to flip a cap dump in the package?

Puljujarvi seems happy to play in Sm-Liiga until this is resolved. His leverage is that the longer he holds out, the less likely Edm is to get full value. If it goes past Dec 1, I don't think he can play this year.

 

[stempniaksen]

It was apparently Garrioch that mentioned it, I think it was during an intermission, so all I could find is a Senschirp tweet



Edmonton has almost no cap space, so adding a middle six roster player is a tough feat to accomplish. I guess maybe they want someone on a ELC or to flip a cap dump in the package?

Puljujarvi seems happy to play in Sm-Liiga until this is resolved. His leverage is that the longer he holds out, the less likely Edm is to get full value. If it goes past Dec 1, I don't think he can play this year.

Yeah but Edmonton holds his rights for another ~4/5 years no? They could essentially freight train his NHL career if they so choose. If JP is happy to play out his career (or minimally his prime) in the SM-Liiga than he surely holds all the leverage, but assuming he wants to return to the NHL the Oilers hold some leverage over him too.

If all the Oilers can get is futures I'm not sure why there would be a rush to deal him before December 1st. They could simply wait for the off-season and move him at the draft. The benefit of moving him now would be (imo) to be able to add a roster forward to help with their playoff push. You're also right they are tight to the cap, but they currently have 14 F and 7 D on the big club, they could open up additional cap space by sending players down and/or moving out small cap dumps (Gagner, Manning, Brodziak, Archibald).

Interesting to see that Garrioch was reporting it, but personally, I don't get the logic from the Oilers perspective (unless they are using futures gained in a JP trade to flip in a couple months at the deadline).

 

[HSF]

Yeah but Edmonton holds his rights for another ~4/5 years no? They could essentially freight train his NHL career if they so choose. If JP is happy to play out his career (or minimally his prime) in the SM-Liiga than he surely holds all the leverage, but assuming he wants to return to the NHL the Oilers hold some leverage over him too.

If all the Oilers can get is futures I'm not sure why there would be a rush to deal him before December 1st. They could simply wait for the off-season and move him at the draft. The benefit of moving him now would be (imo) to be able to add a roster forward to help with their playoff push. You're also right they are tight to the cap, but they currently have 14 F and 7 D on the big club, they could open up additional cap space by sending players down and/or moving out small cap dumps (Gagner, Manning, Brodziak, Archibald).

Interesting to see that Garrioch was reporting it, but personally, I don't get the logic from the Oilers perspective (unless they are using futures gained in a JP trade to flip in a couple months at the deadline).

The logic being that its time to move on from a relationship that isn't working.

In a real life professional environment if whatever reason something isn't working out you move on and get what you can. Like you said maybe the draft is the place but I think his value is higher now due there still being half the season left.

Oilers gain nothing and hurt their rep by purposely trying to sabotage his career by telling him to stay in Finland. They are better off getting a 2nd + and then trying to use that to improve their current roster

Lastly he is playing well rn coming off of surgery so you don't want to wait it out and have him get injured or slow down

 

[Hale The Villain]

Something like:

Tierney, DAL 2nd/OTT 3rd, Sturtz for Puljujarvi, Benning

or

Tierney, OTT 4th, Sturtz for Puljujarvi, Manning

...is probably fair. Checks a lot of boxes for both teams. Give them the option to get a higher pick if they give up Benning, or take the lower round pick to get out of Manning's contract. Sturtz is to balance out contracts, assuming we bring over Puljujarvi this year and not after the season is over.

 

[stempniaksen]

The logic being that its time to move on from a relationship that isn't working.

In a real life professional environment if whatever reason something isn't working out you move on and get what you can. Like you said maybe the draft is the place but I think his value is higher now due there still being half the season left.

Oilers gain nothing and hurt their rep by purposely trying to sabotage his career by telling him to stay in Finland. They are better off getting a 2nd + and then trying to use that to improve their current roster

Lastly he is playing well rn coming off of surgery so you don't want to wait it out and have him get injured or slow down

Fair enough. I'm not saying they'll hold on to him and purposefully sabotage his career or anything.

If I was Ken Holland and I was trying to decide between a futures deal and a deal that could provide some (much needed) immediate help to my roster it would be the easiest decision in the world. That's not to say teams will be lining up to give the Oilers a quality player, but the Sens could put themselves in a nice position by offering up Tierney, Pageau, C.Brown (i.e any "vet" that isn't part of the long term plan).

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Why is Ottawa adding a pick?

 

[stempniaksen]

Why is Ottawa adding a pick?

Because of your namesake?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Why is Ottawa adding a pick?

Because Tierney's value probably isn't higher than a 2nd, and Puljujarvi's reported asking price is a 2nd + prospect.

What quality of prospect was/is Holland asking for? I don't think we know, but if I had to guess it would be someone Abramov, Balcers or Formenton. If it were an afterthought prospect like Chlapik, Lajoie, Gruden, etc... I'm sure the deal would have already happened.

You can make the argument it's not worth paying that for Puljujarvi, but I think it'd be a worthy gamble for us. We made a similar one with Turris that paid off handsomely. Could be a great buy-low acquisition if he starts to live up to his potential.

 

[slamigo]

You can make the argument it's not worth paying that for Puljujarvi, but I think it'd be a worthy gamble for us. We made a similar one with Turris that paid off handsomely. Could be a great buy-low acquisition if he starts to live up to his potential.

Ottawa is becoming the Island of Misfit Toys. Lol
But I am interested in Puljujarvi. Skill doesn't lie. If he can be properly coached and motivated, he could be a heck of a player.

 

[Alex1234]

We don't need JP imo

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Ottawa is becoming the Island of Misfit Toys. Lol
But I am interested in Puljujarvi. Skill doesn't lie. If he can be properly coached and motivated, he could be a heck of a player.

I know, I love it. After seeing how well players that were castoffs from other teams did in Vegas' inaugural year, I'm surprised more GMs aren't making these kinds of trades. High ceiling, youngish players stuck in a roster logjam on another team that are struggling with bottom 6 minutes. No better motivator than being given ice time and opportunity on a fresh team with a chip on your shoulder to prove yourself.

Duclair, Connor Brown and Namestnikov all came here from teams that didn't trust them/give them top 6 minutes and they all flourished here (so far) in expanded roles. As a rebuilding team, it's great to have the option of re-signing these guys or flipping them for picks at the deadline, and I'm hoping Dorion has a few more of these types of trade up his sleeve

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Coyle gets 6 years @ 5.25M from Boston.

I think it takes something similar to re-sign Pageau here. That's IF he wants to stay.

If we trade Pageau, and if he produces at a 60+ point click, AND if he is part of a big playoff run - I could see someone giving him 6+ million as a UFA. He probably gets closer to 5 though.

 

[GCK]

Something like:

Tierney, DAL 2nd/OTT 3rd, Sturtz for Puljujarvi, Benning

or

Tierney, OTT 4th, Sturtz for Puljujarvi, Manning

...is probably fair. Checks a lot of boxes for both teams. Give them the option to get a higher pick if they give up Benning, or take the lower round pick to get out of Manning's contract. Sturtz is to balance out contracts, assuming we bring over Puljujarvi this year and not after the season is over.

How does that make sense for Ottawa. Sens lose more assets and wind up with higher payroll

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Hey guys just checking out your Pulju discussion. I think most of you guys are pretty realistic about the situation. That Garrioch tweet is from awhile ago and with their success this season I think the ask has likely shifted to a 3C or player who can help now. The cap is a problem but they do have Brodziak on LTIR and could send down guys like Gagner and Manning to free up another 2M. Holland really doesn't need to force a deal, he's got nothing but time, especially with the team playing well but I do think he'd rather resolve this sooner rather then later.

I'm wondering if Duclair might be made available between now and the deadline and what a package of Tierney + Duclair would look like. Pieces I think the Oilers would be comfortable trading in a package like this would be some collection of Puljujarvi, Benning, Lagesson, Jones, 2nds, 3rds. The Oilers would likely need to send at least one of Gagner or Manning back but they are both expiring and somewhat serviceable players that could likely be flipped at the deadline for late round picks.

 

[Artanis]

Hey guys just checking out your Pulju discussion. I think most of you guys are pretty realistic about the situation. That Garrioch tweet is from awhile ago and with their success this season I think the ask has likely shifted to a 3C or player who can help now. The cap is a problem but they do have Brodziak on LTIR and could send down guys like Gagner and Manning to free up another 2M. Holland really doesn't need to force a deal, he's got nothing but time, especially with the team playing well but I do think he'd rather resolve this sooner rather then later.

I'm wondering if Duclair might be made available between now and the deadline and what a package of Tierney + Duclair would look like. Pieces I think the Oilers would be comfortable trading in a package like this would be some collection of Puljujarvi, Benning, Lagesson, Jones, 2nds, 3rds. The Oilers would likely need to send at least one of Gagner or Manning back but they are both expiring and somewhat serviceable players that could likely be flipped at the deadline for late round picks.

Duclair isn't going anywhere.

 

[GCK]

Hey guys just checking out your Pulju discussion. I think most of you guys are pretty realistic about the situation. That Garrioch tweet is from awhile ago and with their success this season I think the ask has likely shifted to a 3C or player who can help now. The cap is a problem but they do have Brodziak on LTIR and could send down guys like Gagner and Manning to free up another 2M. Holland really doesn't need to force a deal, he's got nothing but time, especially with the team playing well but I do think he'd rather resolve this sooner rather then later.

I'm wondering if Duclair might be made available between now and the deadline and what a package of Tierney + Duclair would look like. Pieces I think the Oilers would be comfortable trading in a package like this would be some collection of Puljujarvi, Benning, Lagesson, Jones, 2nds, 3rds. The Oilers would likely need to send at least one of Gagner or Manning back but they are both expiring and somewhat serviceable players that could likely be flipped at the deadline for late round picks.

Honestly both Puljujarvi and Duclair have big question marks about them. A 1 for 1 might work.