Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2019-20 Part II

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OD99

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
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You mean the Sharks team that has won 7 of 10 and is now 3 points out of a playoff spot?
Unless you know of a different Sharks team in the NHL?

I also mean the team that has won 7 of 10 to reach .500 for first time this season and remain out of a playoff spot while all the teams above them have struggled for the past few weeks to reinforce my point that winning is hard.

What was your point?
 

Sensfan4life

Registered User
Nov 2, 2019
262
125
Unless you know of a different Sharks team in the NHL?

I also mean the team that has won 7 of 10 to reach .500 for first time this season and remain out of a playoff spot while all the teams above them have struggled for the past few weeks to reinforce my point that winning is hard.

What was your point?
That the Sharks team was returning to form and would be in a playoff spot shortly. Just like they have been for the past decade.
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
16,403
10,630
The Leafs are in a playoff spot.

The Sharks had a rough start and will be there shortly after winning 7 of 8.

Talent matters.

Sorry that you interpret people making counter points as "being a bit of a dick". Maybe consider just making your point and and allowing others to do the same.
Leafs are not in a playoff spot, but unfortunately likely will get there.

Sharks are benefitting from the easiest month of their schedule and are still on the outside looking in. I have said from before the season their ceiling is 6th in division and 10th in conference. Old roster which has been injury free other than 1 game missed by Hertl. They will slow down and their schedule gets more difficult.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,142
9,720
There seems to be this perception here that NHL players are easily replaced. They're not

Earlier this year i posted that our D this year is a significant upgrade on last year. And it is. We've got Lajoie and Jaros in the minors who between them played well over 100 games for us last year. They are down there because what we have up here is better. DeMelo is part of that. The truth is we can trade him at the TDL but we've no guarantee that what we receive in return ever plays an NHL game nor do we have a guarantee that what we bring upfrom the minors can play his minutes with the same effectiveness.

And it isn't just DeMelo. We have other guys that are relatively young that are contributing but there seems to be a rush to move them out the door

This board will go ballistic if we dont move Hainsey at the TDL. imo he's doing a great job for us. He wont be around in 2 years time and possibly won't be around next year but he seems to be a stabilizing old man influence and i don't know why we need to rush to dump that influence for a return that the odds say never plays an NHL game

The team is doing better than expected for a variety of reasons. I dont quite get why we are in a rush to move out players that can help us in the 2 to 5 year down the road range
 

Sensfan4life

Registered User
Nov 2, 2019
262
125
Leafs are not in a playoff spot, but unfortunately likely will get there.

Sharks are benefitting from the easiest month of their schedule and are still on the outside looking in. I have said from before the season their ceiling is 6th in division and 10th in conference. Old roster which has been injury free other than 1 game missed by Hertl. They will slow down and their schedule gets more difficult.
The Sharks have the worst PDO in the league. Your projection for them reeks of confirmation bias.
 

Comely

Registered User
Nov 26, 2007
2,248
291
Cambridge
The Sharks have the worst PDO in the league. Your projection for them reeks of confirmation bias.
The problem with using PDO for the sharks is that their goalies suck, even if they were shooting way above average they will have terrible PDO until they get new goalies. PDO isnt just about luck. I think they could make the playoffs regardless I mean they did last year with the same terrible goaltending.

They were 27th in PDO last year for the same reason.
 

Sensfan4life

Registered User
Nov 2, 2019
262
125
The problem with using PDO for the sharks is that their goalies suck, even if they were shooting way above average they will have terrible PDO until they get new goalies. PDO isnt just about luck. I think they could make the playoffs regardless I mean they did last year with the same terrible goaltending.

They were 27th in PDO last year for the same reason.

Last season 0.987
This season. 0.959
 

Comely

Registered User
Nov 26, 2007
2,248
291
Cambridge
Last season 0.987
This season. 0.959
And thier best shooter from last year is gone, Pav was 5th for shots on the team with a 20% shooting percentage. If everyone else on the team replicates their shooting percentage from last year their PDO will still go down
 

Sensfan4life

Registered User
Nov 2, 2019
262
125
And thier best shooter from last year is gone, Pav was 5th for shots on the team with a 20% shooting percentage. If everyone else on the team replicates their shooting percentage from last year their PDO will still go down
If EK's shooting % returns to his career norm, then this will help offset the loss of Pavelski.

Their PDO is highly unlikely to be .959 by season end.
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
16,403
10,630
If EK's shooting % returns to his career norm, then this will help offset the loss of Pavelski.

Their PDO is highly unlikely to be .959 by season end.
Have you compared the Shooting Percentage of this roster this year vs. last year. Pavelski ran at 20% and Donskoi ran at 12.8%. The team is also running at an unsustainable 90% PK. At 82 times Shorthanded that's 8 PPG against fewer than last years percentage would indicate. I'll stick with my assessment that this roster is far inferior to previous Sharks roster, especially with 4 key players declining due to age and/or injury.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
16,390
11,511
Yukon
There seems to be this perception here that NHL players are easily replaced. They're not

Earlier this year i posted that our D this year is a significant upgrade on last year. And it is. We've got Lajoie and Jaros in the minors who between them played well over 100 games for us last year. They are down there because what we have up here is better. DeMelo is part of that. The truth is we can trade him at the TDL but we've no guarantee that what we receive in return ever plays an NHL game nor do we have a guarantee that what we bring upfrom the minors can play his minutes with the same effectiveness.

And it isn't just DeMelo. We have other guys that are relatively young that are contributing but there seems to be a rush to move them out the door

This board will go ballistic if we dont move Hainsey at the TDL. imo he's doing a great job for us. He wont be around in 2 years time and possibly won't be around next year but he seems to be a stabilizing old man influence and i don't know why we need to rush to dump that influence for a return that the odds say never plays an NHL game

The team is doing better than expected for a variety of reasons. I dont quite get why we are in a rush to move out players that can help us in the 2 to 5 year down the road range
It all needs to be taken in the context of the Ottawa Senators. Hanging on to vets over scrap picks to finish out the year is one thing, but some of these guys have contract pressure points requiring significant commitments and giving money and term to secondary contributors when they're under such a tight budget is not how some people want to see the team built. They need to walk a very fine line not to burn through their budget again, and each time the conversation comes up its, we can't lose x he does y, but you have to cut bait with some to preserve their ability to commit to actual core players down the line here. Spending well below the cap, they won't have the luxury of filling each hole with the player they want there and elc's and cheap vets need to be used for a lot of the role players and that needs to be accounted for now, not expecting it to just work out fine later on.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
55,538
33,139
If EK's shooting % returns to his career norm, then this will help offset the loss of Pavelski.

Their PDO is highly unlikely to be .959 by season end.

While I agree it's likely to go up, there's a bit of a glass ceiling on it until the find a better option in nets. Even giving them the leagues best On-ice sh% from last year wouldn't bring their PDO above 100

As for EK improving his Sh%, sure I guess wrt his personal shooting %, but his on-ice Sh% is actually well above his career norm, and could easily see some regression.

It's not like SJ is having issues with their Sh%, it's right around average. I don't see it going up enough to offset their terrible goaltending.
 

OD99

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
5,053
4,229
That the Sharks team was returning to form and would be in a playoff spot shortly. Just like they have been for the past decade.
Ok fair enough. You want to comment on something unrelated to my OP, fill your boots.

I never mentioned playoffs.

Making the playoffs for 10 years doesn't mean they automatically make it 11.

Even all that said, the most recent Sharks/Oilers game was faaaaast and both teams were able to apply a lot of pressure on opposing D.

Sucks the Knights couldn't knock the Sharks off but they have another tough game against the Isles tomorrow.

Her is hoping you are wrong and Sharks end up outside looking in.
 

bert

Registered User
Nov 11, 2002
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Did you just quote yourself and argue with your own point Bert? :)
No i quoted my post in response to others that quoted a previous post in which i had already answered the questions they had brought up. I explained that, in the post you quoted.
 

Comely

Registered User
Nov 26, 2007
2,248
291
Cambridge
Have you compared the Shooting Percentage of this roster this year vs. last year. Pavelski ran at 20% and Donskoi ran at 12.8%. The team is also running at an unsustainable 90% PK. At 82 times Shorthanded that's 8 PPG against fewer than last years percentage would indicate. I'll stick with my assessment that this roster is far inferior to previous Sharks roster, especially with 4 key players declining due to age and/or injury.

Oh there PDO is going to go higher then it is right now, but that does not guarantee more wins nor will their PDO ever be good. Things will average out and they will probably have a PDO around 98 by the end of the season and they will finish right on the bubble, either barely in or barely out of the playoffs. Or at least that is how I would project things out sometimes crazy things happen that are completely unsupported by any numbers.
 

bert

Registered User
Nov 11, 2002
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Visit site
Leafs are not in a playoff spot, but unfortunately likely will get there.

Sharks are benefitting from the easiest month of their schedule and are still on the outside looking in. I have said from before the season their ceiling is 6th in division and 10th in conference. Old roster which has been injury free other than 1 game missed by Hertl. They will slow down and their schedule gets more difficult.
Veteran team that had a deep run had a predictably slow start. There are 0 facts that would suggest they are going to have a massive regression from last year when they were a final 4 team. I am as hopeful as anyone they miss the playoffs and finish 6th in the division. The reality is thats not going to happen they are absolutely loaded with talent.

Do you have any proof that you said they wont finish better than 6th in the division? If they make the playoffs will you own it?
 

OD99

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
5,053
4,229
No i quoted my post in response to others that quoted a previous post in which i had already answered the questions they had brought up. I explained that, in the post you quoted.

Ya have to admit I didnt read it...just saw you quote yourself and then comment. Seemed funny at the time.
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
16,403
10,630
Veteran team that had a deep run had a predictably slow start. There are 0 facts that would suggest they are going to have a massive regression from last year when they were a final 4 team. I am as hopeful as anyone they miss the playoffs and finish 6th in the division. The reality is thats not going to happen they are absolutely loaded with talent.

Do you have any proof that you said they wont finish better than 6th in the division? If they make the playoffs will you own it?
Several posts here. I will own it but I don’t think I’ll have to.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
55,538
33,139
There seems to be this perception here that NHL players are easily replaced. They're not

Earlier this year i posted that our D this year is a significant upgrade on last year. And it is. We've got Lajoie and Jaros in the minors who between them played well over 100 games for us last year. They are down there because what we have up here is better. DeMelo is part of that. The truth is we can trade him at the TDL but we've no guarantee that what we receive in return ever plays an NHL game nor do we have a guarantee that what we bring upfrom the minors can play his minutes with the same effectiveness.

And it isn't just DeMelo. We have other guys that are relatively young that are contributing but there seems to be a rush to move them out the door

This board will go ballistic if we dont move Hainsey at the TDL. imo he's doing a great job for us. He wont be around in 2 years time and possibly won't be around next year but he seems to be a stabilizing old man influence and i don't know why we need to rush to dump that influence for a return that the odds say never plays an NHL game

The team is doing better than expected for a variety of reasons. I dont quite get why we are in a rush to move out players that can help us in the 2 to 5 year down the road range

Interesting timing on this, Lajoie just got called up (looks like one of Zaitsev or Goloubef might be out, or maybe Goloubef is being sent down)

We'll see how he does relative to the guys that have been up all year. Hard to judge our D last year vs this year when the system completely changed a we've got far more buy in now. I agree that our D doesn't have any obvious replacement options in Belleville for DeMelo or Hainsey with Wolanin injured. Hainsey is also providing more than just his on ice play imo. But, I do think we have to project forward to next year, and somebody out of Boro, DeMelo and Hainsey is going to get squeezed out.
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
5,306
1,610
Ottawa
It all needs to be taken in the context of the Ottawa Senators. Hanging on to vets over scrap picks to finish out the year is one thing, but some of these guys have contract pressure points requiring significant commitments and giving money and term to secondary contributors when they're under such a tight budget is not how some people want to see the team built. They need to walk a very fine line not to burn through their budget again, and each time the conversation comes up its, we can't lose x he does y, but you have to cut bait with some to preserve their ability to commit to actual core players down the line here. Spending well below the cap, they won't have the luxury of filling each hole with the player they want there and elc's and cheap vets need to be used for a lot of the role players and that needs to be accounted for now, not expecting it to just work out fine later on.

Add in the lack of measurable evaluation that can be placed on things like leadership, good in the room, a good teacher etc... which many of the pieces being argued to be kept seem to have lots of and I think it's fairly easy to see why most want the majority of ufa's outta here asap!
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,142
9,720
Interesting timing on this, Lajoie just got called up (looks like one of Zaitsev or Goloubef might be out, or maybe Goloubef is being sent down)

We'll see how he does relative to the guys that have been up all year. Hard to judge our D last year vs this year when the system completely changed a we've got far more buy in now. I agree that our D doesn't have any obvious replacement options in Belleville for DeMelo or Hainsey with Wolanin injured. Hainsey is also providing more than just his on ice play imo. But, I do think we have to project forward to next year, and somebody out of Boro, DeMelo and Hainsey is going to get squeezed out.

Someone must be injured because i read just yesterday ghat both Lajoie and Jaros were struggling
 
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