Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2019-20 Part II

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BatherSeason

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In those scenarios a 1st is way more valuable than the player being traded. In Brannstrom's scenario, his value was much higher than a Vegas 1st
Either way, we acquired Brannstrom, who is a prospect, and a second for an extended Mark Stone. If that's all our GM can get for one of the best forwards in the game, how does anyone have any faith that Dorion can get very close to the same value for Pageau?
 

GCK

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Either way, we acquired Brannstrom, who is a prospect, and a second for an extended Mark Stone. If that's all our GM can get for one of the best forwards in the game, how does anyone have any faith that Dorion can get very close to the same value for Pageau?
To be fair Stone did say that other than Ottawa, Vegas was the only team he would sign an extension with so it’s not like there was a lot of competition.
 

BatherSeason

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To be fair Stone did say that other than Ottawa, Vegas was the only team he would sign an extension with so it’s not like there was a lot of competition.
I am being fair. My main point is that anyone who thinks that Pageau is going to garner a similar return to Stone is over valuing Pageau a tad, while overestimating Pierre Dorion's trading ability. That's the point I am trying to make
 

GCK

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I am being fair. My main point is that anyone who thinks that Pageau is going to garner a similar return to Stone is over valuing Pageau a tad, while overestimating Pierre Dorion's trading ability. That's the point I am trying to make
Got it.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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In those scenarios a 1st is way more valuable than the player being traded. In Brannstrom's scenario, his value was much higher than a Vegas 1st
Agree with higher because of the level of risk but it remains to be seen how much higher. Will he end up the more valuable player than all the first rounders taken 17 - 31. Probably not. A handful of those picks could realistically end up being better players.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Andrew Ladd on waivers.

Ladd for Ryan makes sense for both sides. Ottawa clearly wants to move on from Ryan. Ryan has a higher cap hit, but maybe the Islanders prefer that Ryan has one less year remaining than Ladd. Ladd is also only owed 1M prorated salary this season, and 12M after that. Ryan is owed 20.5M (assuming Ottawa has paid the bonus).
 

Qward

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Andrew Ladd on waivers.

Ladd for Ryan makes sense for both sides. Ottawa clearly wants to move on from Ryan. Ryan has a higher cap hit, but maybe the Islanders prefer that Ryan has one less year remaining than Ladd. Ladd is also only owed 1M prorated salary this season, and 12M after that. Ryan is owed 20.5M (assuming Ottawa has paid the bonus).
Isnt Ladd on a conditioning stint?
 

Qward

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Colin White was out from Oct 21 to Nov 9th. That is shorter than 30 days. Meaning that he would have to be waived in order to be assigned to the AHL for conditioning. White was waiver exempt so they could send him down without fear of him being claimed.

Ladd was out longer than 30 days meaning he is waiver exempt as long as he agrees to the re-assignment. He cannot be there longer than 14 days.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Isnt Ladd on a conditioning stint?

I got a Score notification that he was being placed on waivers. Maybe it was incorrect or I misread.

If true, it might be the prelude to a trade. Ladd has a NTC, but he probably waives to come here I'd the alternative is spending 3.5 years in the AHL.
 

GCK

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Andrew Ladd on waivers.

Ladd for Ryan makes sense for both sides. Ottawa clearly wants to move on from Ryan. Ryan has a higher cap hit, but maybe the Islanders prefer that Ryan has one less year remaining than Ladd. Ladd is also only owed 1M prorated salary this season, and 12M after that. Ryan is owed 20.5M (assuming Ottawa has paid the bonus).
Hard no for me. The Sens can see the light at the end of the Ryan contract tunnel, no sense extending it.

if you want to get creative then working on the assumption Kovalchuk will walk away after his bonus is paid in December:

After Dec 15 -
Kovalchuk to Ottawa
Ryan 50% retained to LA and LA buys out Ryan in the summer.
Ryan’s caphit then becomes 1.8M 1.8M 900K 900K for both LA and Ottawa. I’m sure Dorian might need to add a B prospect as a sweetener such as Jon Gruden.
 

aragorn

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I hope the Sens realize what a commodity Pageau is and re-sign him soon. He's earned the captaincy IMO and is exactly what our young guys need in terms of mentor. I've said it before, you can't develop all these kids without capable veterans. Even one year with Mark Stone, helped Tkatchuk develop on and off the ice. I would give him the same contract as White.

I think Tkachuk learned everything he needed to know on & off the ice from his father & brother. H may have learned about the city & team stuff from Mark.

We need better picks, not more picks. :)
I would hope that having more picks can translate into trading up for better players.
 
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danielpalfredsson

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Hard no for me. The Sens can see the light at the end of the Ryan contract tunnel, no sense extending it.

if you want to get creative then working on the assumption Kovalchuk will walk away after his bonus is paid in December:

After Dec 15 -
Kovalchuk to Ottawa
Ryan 50% retained to LA and LA buys out Ryan in the summer.
Ryan’s caphit then becomes 1.8M 1.8M 900K 900K for both LA and Ottawa. I’m sure Dorian might need to add a B prospect as a sweetener such as Jon Gruden.

Why though?

Within the next 3.5 seasons, are we actually going to spend within 5.5M of the cap? (Of course, not counting our LTIR contracts that artificially inflate our cap number)

If the answer is no, then we should do this trade. We save cash. We move on from Ryan. Ryan might be the better player right now, or he might not - but it doesn't matter. Neither player is going to make much of a difference and at least with Ladd the team gets to move on from Ryan and save cash.
 

Boud

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I think Tkachuk learned everything he needed to know on & off the ice from his father & brother. H may have learned about the city & team stuff from Mark.

That is pretty much certainly completely false.

A young winger coming into the league didn't learn anything about hockey from playing a year and living with one of the best wingers in the league.. go figure.
 
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The Devilish Buffoon

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I am being fair. My main point is that anyone who thinks that Pageau is going to garner a similar return to Stone is over valuing Pageau a tad, while overestimating Pierre Dorion's trading ability. That's the point I am trying to make

Why didnt you address the fact that they are much closer to the return Dzingel got than the return Stone got? Your making a claim based on a faulty premise and ignoring a far more accurate premise because it weakens your claim lol

Andrew Ladd on waivers.

Ladd for Ryan makes sense for both sides. Ottawa clearly wants to move on from Ryan. Ryan has a higher cap hit, but maybe the Islanders prefer that Ryan has one less year remaining than Ladd. Ladd is also only owed 1M prorated salary this season, and 12M after that. Ryan is owed 20.5M (assuming Ottawa has paid the bonus).

Yes, in a second. Ladd would fit our identity better and save us money.
 

GCK

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Why though?

Within the next 3.5 seasons, are we actually going to spend within 5.5M of the cap? (Of course, not counting our LTIR contracts that artificially inflate our cap number)

If the answer is no, then we should do this trade. We save cash. We move on from Ryan. Ryan might be the better player right now, or he might not - but it doesn't matter. Neither player is going to make much of a difference and at least with Ladd the team gets to move on from Ryan and save cash.
It’s not only about cap. If Ladd was to waive his NTC he would likely want guarantees of not being sent to the minors or else why waive. Now in three years when a lot of the kids are no longer waiver exempt we may need that 23rd roster spot flexibility. This is why term is as important as AAV.
 

TheDebater

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Mar 10, 2016
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Stone did return a first. Brannstrom is a first round pick.

Nice twist but you know he meant a 1st round PICK and a prospect (regardless of where they were drafted). That is like claiming we got two 1st round picks from San Jose for Karlsson because Norris was a former 1st.
 

SensFactor

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I think Tkachuk learned everything he needed to know on & off the ice from his father & brother. H may have learned about the city & team stuff from Mark.


I would hope that having more picks can translate into trading up for better players.
This is complete and utter bogus. His father and brother aren't on the ice to guide him in the NHL when he makes a mistake, has a bad night or teaches him locker room leadership. His teammates are and especially veterans who have been there and done that. I give you that they would have helped his development up to the NHL but that's where it ends. Losing Pageau would be a mistake. Hope he gets signed.
 

aragorn

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This is complete and utter bogus. His father and brother aren't on the ice to guide him in the NHL when he makes a mistake, has a bad night or teaches him locker room leadership. His teammates are and especially veterans who have been there and done that. I give you that they would have helped his development up to the NHL but that's where it ends. Losing Pageau would be a mistake. Hope he gets signed.
He made the NHL at 18 yrs of age before ever meeting Stone, give him, his borther & his father some credit for the guy being as good as he was when he was drafted. Not to mention all of the coaches along the way, sure Mark helped him some in the one 2/3s of a season they were together, but so would have the coaches & other players on the team as well. It seems to me that Mark was getting too much credit for Tkachuk's success when the player deserves more of the credit to me.

I also think it depends on your perspective on this rebuild whether you think Pageau should be traded or not.
 

stempniaksen

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Oct 12, 2008
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He made the NHL at 18 yrs of age before ever meeting Stone, give him, his borther & his father some credit for the guy being as good as he was when he was drafted. Not to mention all of the coaches along the way, sure Mark helped him some in the one 2/3s of a season they were together, but so would have the coaches & other players on the team as well. It seems to me that Mark was getting too much credit for Tkachuk's success when the player deserves more of the credit to me.

I also think it depends on your perspective on this rebuild whether you think Pageau should be traded or not.

Technically he met Stone before he made the NHL, if you wanna get technical.

I'm not trying to discount the impact that Matt and Keith (among others) have had on Brady, but I think it's also important to have veteran voices in the locker room who can help guide him (among others). It doesn't need to be an either/or scenario, but having someone going through the same grind, on the same team, in the same city who can be a veteran leader can only help BT. If Pageau can have the same impact on BT moving forward as Stone had during that 2/3rds of last season then it's a win for everyone.
 
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bert

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Why though?

Within the next 3.5 seasons, are we actually going to spend within 5.5M of the cap? (Of course, not counting our LTIR contracts that artificially inflate our cap number)

If the answer is no, then we should do this trade. We save cash. We move on from Ryan. Ryan might be the better player right now, or he might not - but it doesn't matter. Neither player is going to make much of a difference and at least with Ladd the team gets to move on from Ryan and save cash.
Why do you care if the team saves cash? I am far more concerned with the cap hit in 3 years when Ottawa has to start paying players. By then there is hopefully new ownership. All this deal does is help Melnyk hold on to the team longer. I see 0 benefit from the hockey side of things.

Melnyk has proven he wont spend the extra money on the team over and over again why would that change?....
 
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