Rumor: Trade Rumors and Proposals: Will Chia get us an Xmas gift?

[scb23]

If Jones isn't on the table, Preds fans won't be happy with the calibre of center coming back. They just don't have the pieces otherwise.

Agreed. Any offer without Jones min would be equivalent to us offering Lander for Jones.

 

[McDrai]

Yeh every team has those fans. Can paint the whole fan base with the same brush.
Josi is red hot right... toughest minutes and production wise only behind Hall and Drai in Edmonton.
He is also just hitting his prime.

Would the Oilers fans be the worst if ONE of them prefers Draisatil over Weber or Crosby?

As a whole though, most of them complain about not having a #1 center but aren't willing to give up one of their top 3 defencemen.

I like Draisaitl but I would definitely trade him for a Weber or Crosby

 

[LTIR]

As a whole though, most of them complain about not having a #1 center but aren't willing to give up one of their top 3 defencemen.

I like Draisaitl but I would definitely trade him for a Weber or Crosby

Most Oilers fan complain about not having a top pairing D but arent willing to give up one of their top 3 forwards

 

[LTIR]

Lander Forsberg showed good chemistry at the worlds in the offseason so he could be part of a bigger package with NSH.

 

[McDrai]

Most Oilers fan complain about not having a top pairing D but arent willing to give up one of their top 3 forwards

Well Mcdavid is off the list but I'd trade anyone else for a true top pairing defenseman who can play big minutes. It is a massive need for this team

 

[belair]

If it's not Jones, then it'd be Weber. Nashville fans are dreaming that they can get their long-awaited top line center for spare parts.

I agree that a return of Jones and Wilson makes a bit of sense if you move some money around. And with both he and Nuge struggling offensively, it kind of makes sense.

 

[frag2]

As a whole though, most of them complain about not having a #1 center but aren't willing to give up one of their top 3 defencemen.

I like Draisaitl but I would definitely trade him for a Weber or Crosby

You'd be surprised how many here think Crosby isn't worth Nuge or even Yak during his McDavid run

 

[Draiskull]

Well Mcdavid is off the list but I'd trade anyone else for a true top pairing defenseman who can play big minutes. It is a massive need for this team

Hall for one of Ristolainen\Myers\Letang ?

The point is that the Oilers and the Preds for the past few years have felt that they have plenty other trade chips to fix the roster to not have to trade away the big 3.

 

[HotToddy75]

From all I've read on advanced stats, and talking to hockey management types, the economics of the game have yet to reward the 'building block' defensemen who anchor a teams' back end. This is especially true of guys who don't produce high end points.

Similar to how higher end centres tend to never leave the organization that drafted them until free agency, the 'building block' dmen get locked up and rarely move. They are the pieces you must have.

It's these types of dmen that the Oilers covet and cannot acquire through trade. Lately it seems that only Nurse, Sekera and Klefbom are of this type. Many teams have 6 - 8 of them.

The beauty of the 'building block' guys is that once you have them in a group of 4 or 5, you can hide flawed dmen (which the Oilers can't right now), or you can make a star of an offensive type dman who has poor defensive skills.

I see Pittsburgh this year as falling below the threshold of building blocks, now they can't create offense. Philly was that way the last couple seasons. I see Nashville always having 6 or more and always a steady performer.

It all comes down to the stat that in most seasons, the top 16 teams who enter the playoffs, are also the top 16 teams who spend on defensemen. They've been aquired and are being paid.

Chiarelli's challenge is to either cobble together the building blocks from Davidson and Fayne, or to convert a forward to a building block and try to get beyond that tipping point.

I'm curious if Petry was a victim of being just shy of what the Oilers thought they needed for him to be that building block and they feared signing him long term only to regret it later. Was it that he had decent fancy stats but too many fatal flaws? Not sure on that one.

What terrifies me is that the building block cupboard appears altogether bare in the AHL.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Hall for one of Ristolainen\Myers\Letang ?

The point is that the Oilers and the Preds for the past few years have felt that they have plenty other trade chips to fix the roster to not have to trade away the big 3.

Ristolainen is head and shoulders more valuable than the other two.

Hall for Myers is horribly bad, and I don't want any part of Letang with his injury history.

 

[bucks_oil]

From all I've read on advanced stats, and talking to hockey management types, the economics of the game have yet to reward the 'building block' defensemen who anchor a teams' back end. This is especially true of guys who don't produce high end points.

Similar to how higher end centres tend to never leave the organization that drafted them until free agency, the 'building block' dmen get locked up and rarely move. They are the pieces you must have.

It's these types of dmen that the Oilers covet and cannot acquire through trade. Lately it seems that only Nurse, Sekera and Klefbom are of this type. Many teams have 6 - 8 of them.

The beauty of the 'building block' guys is that once you have them in a group of 4 or 5, you can hide flawed dmen (which the Oilers can't right now), or you can make a star of an offensive type dman who has poor defensive skills.

I see Pittsburgh this year as falling below the threshold of building blocks, now they can't create offense. Philly was that way the last couple seasons. I see Nashville always having 6 or more and always a steady performer.

It all comes down to the stat that in most seasons, the top 16 teams who enter the playoffs, are also the top 16 teams who spend on defensemen. They've been aquired and are being paid.

Chiarelli's challenge is to either cobble together the building blocks from Davidson and Fayne, or to convert a forward to a building block and try to get beyond that tipping point.

I'm curious if Petry was a victim of being just shy of what the Oilers thought they needed for him to be that building block and they feared signing him long term only to regret it later. Was it that he had decent fancy stats but too many fatal flaws? Not sure on that one.

What terrifies me is that the building block cupboard appears altogether bare in the AHL.

Good post...

My subjective opinion of Petry is that he was *not* going to be worth the money he was asking for given the salary construct of our team. We'd have needed to move one of the "core" forwards and STILL pay a top-end D so that Petry could anchor the second pairing. MacT wasn't willing to move one of Nuge/Ebs/Hall pre-McDavid and I don't blame him.

Petry's issue, and I realize this is also subjective, was that he didn't really make his partner better because he couldn't read the play when not directly involved. His one-on-one defensive skills were top notch, but if you asked him to pick up a guy in the slot... or rather to efficiently identify the correct guy in the slot (and direct the C to the other one), he just couldn't do it.

Say what you will, but MacT was an ELITE defensive centerman in the league, and Lowe was an ELITE defensive Dman in the league... both with high hockey IQ. BOTH of them would know who to pick up in the slot AND how to direct their less intelligent teammates to pick up the other one. I don't believe they were ever going to be willing to pay a guy like Petry (high skills, low IQ) what he felt he deserved.

And then maybe it got personal, so Petry's demands went up (and that, yes, you could fault MacT and Lowe for poor asset management if you believed it)

 

[McOilbleeder]

Is it possible to have success with such a young group of defensemen? Nurse, Klefbom, Davidson, Reinhart, Jones. Even with the veteran Sekera, that would have to be the youngest defense in the league. I'm really on the fence regarding a RNH for Jones trade, but I have not seen Jones play enough to have a strong opinion on him. For those who have seen him a lot, is he very physically assertive?

I think that is a big issue for me when looking at RNH for Jones trade.

Before people freak out, lets get this out of the way. Seth Jones is a ****ing stud. The guy has every tool to be a cornerstone #1 D-man in the league. You want hockey IQ, physical play, a shot, bloodlines, whatever, he has it.

My issue is are we willing to risk year 2 of McDavid's ELC as a developmental year for that. Ignoring RNH's ability (or lack thereof depending on which side you're on), we'd go into next season with McDavid and Draisaitl as our #1 and #2 C's. Our top-6 on D will involve half the guys playing less than 200 NHL games. That's also assuming Jones is ready for a bigger role considering he's not playing one of the leagues best defenses.

We've done this before guys, take any of the past 5 seasons. Thrown in players into big situations before they were ready. It has turned out to result in the playoffs a grand total of zero times. More youth is going to result in another developmental year. Something that is unacceptable at this stage.

 

[Young Lions*]

Most Oilers fan complain about not having a top pairing D but arent willing to give up one of their top 3 forwards

Well the only trade being bandied about that seems reasonable involves trading a top three forward (RNH) for Nashville's #4D (Jones). If you want a real #1D you're probably talking Hall or a package deal with RNH plus Nurse at least.

 

[scb23]

I think that is a big issue for me when looking at RNH for Jones trade.

Before people freak out, lets get this out of the way. Seth Jones is a ****ing stud. The guy has every tool to be a cornerstone #1 D-man in the league. You want hockey IQ, physical play, a shot, bloodlines, whatever, he has it.

My issue is are we willing to risk year 2 of McDavid's ELC as a developmental year for that. Ignoring RNH's ability (or lack thereof depending on which side you're on), we'd go into next season with McDavid and Draisaitl as our #1 and #2 C's. Our top-6 on D will involve half the guys playing less than 200 NHL games. That's also assuming Jones is ready for a bigger role considering he's not playing one of the leagues best defenses.

We've done this before guys, take any of the past 5 seasons. Thrown in players into big situations before they were ready. It has turned out to result in the playoffs a grand total of zero times. More youth is going to result in another developmental year. Something that is unacceptable at this stage.

Completely agree. And these young guys need mentorship. It'd be hard to turn down that trade because I think Jones will be a great player, but you also have to consider the holes we would still have and where he would slot in. RNH out and Jones in would mean:

- We're still short a top pairing guy
- and we'd have a new hole at C (call him soft all you want, Nuge eats up a lot of tough minutes).

 

[Young Lions*]

I think that is a big issue for me when looking at RNH for Jones trade.

Before people freak out, lets get this out of the way. Seth Jones is a ****ing stud. The guy has every tool to be a cornerstone #1 D-man in the league. You want hockey IQ, physical play, a shot, bloodlines, whatever, he has it.

My issue is are we willing to risk year 2 of McDavid's ELC as a developmental year for that. Ignoring RNH's ability (or lack thereof depending on which side you're on), we'd go into next season with McDavid and Draisaitl as our #1 and #2 C's. Our top-6 on D will involve half the guys playing less than 200 NHL games. That's also assuming Jones is ready for a bigger role considering he's not playing one of the leagues best defenses.

We've done this before guys, take any of the past 5 seasons. Thrown in players into big situations before they were ready. It has turned out to result in the playoffs a grand total of zero times. More youth is going to result in another developmental year. Something that is unacceptable at this stage.

Agree. I like Jones, would love to have him on the team, but unless you can swing a deal for, say, Hamonic as well, you're throwing another kid to the wolves.

Let's not forget he's an RFA and will be likely commanding Doug Hamilton money on his next deal.

Oh and if you trade RNH and then your top 3 centres will have about 238 NHL GP. Basically, it's kicking the can down the road another 2-3 years.

 

[Draiskull]

Agree. I like Jones, would love to have him on the team, but unless you can swing a deal for, say, Hamonic as well, you're throwing another kid to the wolves.

Let's not forget he's an RFA and will be likely commanding Doug Hamilton money on his next deal.

Oh and if you trade RNH and then your top 3 centres will have about 238 NHL GP. Basically, it's kicking the can down the road another 2-3 years.

And the thing with acquiring Hamonic is that if we get him first there is no way we should be trading RNH for Jones.

Klefbom-Hamonic , Nurse-Sekera would be good enough.

 

[CupofOil]

Agree. I like Jones, would love to have him on the team, but unless you can swing a deal for, say, Hamonic as well, you're throwing another kid to the wolves.

Let's not forget he's an RFA and will be likely commanding Doug Hamilton money on his next deal.

Oh and if you trade RNH and then your top 3 centres will have about 238 NHL GP. Basically, it's kicking the can down the road another 2-3 years.

Agree on all points.

I know it looks pretty on paper to do an RNH for Jones deal but the fact remains that Jones is ill-equipped to handle tough minutes and the Oilers don't have the veterans to shelter him.

Think of it this way. They would be rolling with an 18-19-22-21 and 20 year old as 5 of their top 6 centers/Dmen with virtually no support beyond that so even though there's a possibility of hitting a homerun in trading for Jones, you might have to wait years for it to come to fruition.
There's also the fact that he's an American which is always sketchy for Canadian teams when it comes to long term commitment.

The Oilers have to get an experienced Dman back for RNH even if he has less upside. I know it's not a sexy deal but if the Isles offered up Hamonic for RNH as a base, the Oilers have to strongly consider it with perhaps an add from the Oilers (a centerman ideally). Dmen like Hamonic rarely become available and while there are some flaws there, he's the type of Dman physically, agewise and contractwise that is almost the ideal fit for the Oilers at current need.

 

[BarDownBobo]

Completely agree. And these young guys need mentorship. It'd be hard to turn down that trade because I think Jones will be a great player, but you also have to consider the holes we would still have and where he would slot in. RNH out and Jones in would mean:

- We're still short a top pairing guy
- and we'd have a new hole at C (call him soft all you want, Nuge eats up a lot of tough minutes).

I really think if you layed out your D as Sekera-Nurse, Klefbom-Jones and Davidson-xxxxxx you'd be OK for next year. Sekera and Nurse have already been doing a great job going against other teams top pairs for the most part, and with another 50 games this year for Nurse to learn the NHL game and for the two of them to gain chemistry I don't see any reason they can't play in that role next season. And it's not like Jones is a complete rookie coming in, he's closing in on 200 games in the NHL. It's a risk for sure, but at this point in the rebuild I think it's a risk that's worth taking.

 

[Young Lions*]

The Oilers have to get an experienced Dman back for RNH even if he has less upside. I know it's not a sexy deal but if the Isles offered up Hamonic for RNH as a base, the Oilers have to strongly consider it with perhaps an add from the Oilers (a centerman ideally). Dmen like Hamonic rarely become available and while there are some flaws there, he's the type of Dman physically, agewise and contractwise that is almost the ideal fit for the Oilers at current need.

RNH for Hamonic and Grabovski/Kulemin+ works on paper but I'm not sure the Isles need the help up the middle. If Snow is dead set on getting a D back, I don't see a fit there unless we can slip him a mickey and show him a DVD of highlights from Schultz's AHL campaign a few years back.

And the thing with acquiring Hamonic is that if we get him first there is no way we should be trading RNH for Jones.

Klefbom-Hamonic , Nurse-Sekera would be good enough.

Yup, good point.

 

[Dave]

I don't generally get into trade discussion because I can't really provide proper insight to value etc, but has this board discussed byfuglien as an option for the oilers? I know he'd be a rental at this point, but if they could get a sign and trade or go after him in free agency so long as they could afford it.

is there a consensus at all on him from an oilers perspective?

 

[Quinteoilers]

Get a good look at the Oilers future Dman tonight-Big Buff. Trades are to hard to make, with the salary cap world now and the media scrutiny.
There is a lot of money coming off the books this summer. (Nikitin/Ference/Scrivens) Fayne traded
plus I can't see Pouliot staying he is always hurt and doesn't generate anything on his own.

That leaves a lot of money for Chia to throw at Lucic.
A 2nd line of Lucic-McDavid-Eberle would be a handful for any opposing team to handle.

 

[oilers4life5]

I think you guys are missing the reason we do this trade. It is too hard to acquire a #1 dman but this trade gives us an opportunity to acquire a guy that plays second pair today and has potential to be a #1 right shot d. We have seen that a #1 D is the most valuable player in the game. Our previous pain should not determine how we move forward today. It would suck to lose Nuge and short term might set us back but you have to give to get. I could see Nurse or Klefbom / Jones pair being our Keith/Seabrook for the next 10-15 years.

Nuge + Schultz for Jones + ??

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

RNH, Schultz, Reinhart, 1st for Weber, Low prospect

Klefbom - Weber
Nurse - Sekera
Davidson - Gryba/Fayne

 

[s7ark]

I don't generally get into trade discussion because I can't really provide proper insight to value etc, but has this board discussed byfuglien as an option for the oilers? I know he'd be a rental at this point, but if they could get a sign and trade or go after him in free agency so long as they could afford it.

is there a consensus at all on him from an oilers perspective?

I have been hoping for Buff for a while. Big, mean, vet RD that can put up points. I don't care if they have to overpay to get him. That's how UFA works. If the contract is bad in 4-5 years I don't care. Retain salary and move it then. If the Oilers are close to the playoffs near the deadline I hope they toss Winnipeg a 1st + prospect for him and work their ***** off to sign him.

I'd much prefer to trade a 1st+ for Buff near the deadline instead of moving RNH for a young undeveloped Jones.

 

[Tarus]

So Paile wants the likes of Ryjo and RNH but unwilling to trade back Weber, Josi, or Jones. Too bad then.

Yep

No one is trading a guy perceived as able to play top center minutes for Nashville's bit parts.