Rumor: Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread | Current Rumor: Cam Talbot

[Burnt Biscuits]

Edit: And Franson? Really? That's who you want to replace Schultz with? You're basically paying 2+ million more for a lateral move. Franson is just as bad defensively and is no better offensively.

Franson isn't high on my acquisition list either, but he did have better numbers offensively his 5 on 5 points per 60 was 0.89 this season to Schultz's 0.77, which is pretty close over the course of a year that'd be about 2 points more at even strength. On the powerplay though is where Franson makes his money he had a 5.29 Pts/per 60 to Schultz's 2.95 Pts/per 60 if heavily utilized in a PP role, Franson should get about 10 more points a year on the powerplay.

I also agree with the comment about his shot, Franson's shot is enough of threat that he does get respect and people will play him closer to neutralize it, which does benefit the rest of the powerplay and the potential options made available.

 

[ivanthebad*]

Pouliot, Fayne, Hendricks, Gordon, Ference, plus about $20 million in cap space to add to that.

They're not young pups anymore aside from McDavid, the other four of them (five actually with Schultz) need to step up their game's. It's time. They've had plenty of experience now, it's time to stop babying them.

There is no excuse to not have a higher commitment at their age to off-season strength training, for having more battle and compete in their game, for making higher intelligence hockey plays ... they know this league now and they should know better than repeating mistakes they were making as rookies half a decade ago.

Other than Fayne and Poo the rest play 10 mins a game. Poo also has not been on a team for more than a year but I have praised him to no end. I gave you an example in Calgary where 4 players played top minutes. Suggesting bottom minutes guys is not an arguement. You gave me 2. That is not the recipe for success, especially not in Calgarys case. You are not competive with bottom guys who play minimal minutes.

Suggesting that Hall,RNH, Ebs, Yak make no mistakes without veteran leadership? Have they actually learned from vets? What can they preach abou wining or leadersip at their age? They only know how to lose. It's not their fault mind you, but to suggest they have some seasoned qualities is ridiculous

 

[Spawn]

Franson isn't high on my acquisition list either, but he did have better numbers offensively his 5 on 5 points per 60 was 0.89 this season to Schultz's 0.77, which is pretty close over the course of a year that'd be about 2 points more at even strength. On the powerplay though is where Franson makes his money he had a 5.29 Pts/per 60 to Schultz's 2.95 Pts/per 60 if heavily utilized in a PP role, Franson should get about 10 more points a year on the powerplay.

I also agree with the comment about his shot, Franson's shot is enough of threat that he does get respect and people will play him closer to neutralize it, which does benefit the rest of the powerplay and the potential options made available.

Is that hypothetical (Franson averages 2 points a season more than Schultz the past 3 years) 10 points a year worth an extra 2+ million per year over a long term deal?

In a vaccuum maybe you take Franson over Schultz. Maybe. They are both fairly flawed players with bad defensive games and mediocre offensive games. Franson has a better shot, Schultz is a better skater and better at activating on the rush. But even if you give the nod to Franson right now. He's older (will be 28 to start next season vs 25 for Schultz), unlikely to get any better and will cost substantially more in both term and dollars.

Schultz at 3.6 for 1 or 2 years >>>>>> Franson at 5.5+ for 6+ years

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Is that hypothetical (Franson averages 2 points a season more than Schultz the past 3 years) 10 points a year worth an extra 2+ million per year over a long term deal?

In a vaccuum maybe you take Franson over Schultz. Maybe. They are both fairly flawed players with bad defensive games and mediocre offensive games. Franson has a better shot, Schultz is a better skater and better at activating on the rush. But even if you give the nod to Franson right now. He's older (will be 28 to start next season vs 25 for Schultz), unlikely to get any better and will cost substantially more in both term and dollars.

Schultz at 3.6 for 1 or 2 years >>>>>> Franson at 5.5+ for 6+ years

I said Franson isn't high on my acquisition list for a reason, I'm not looking to get into a debate defending him, I just believe in giving an honest assessment of a player and if they have an advantage over another player that advantage should be acknowledged, Franson is the superior offensive player because of his work on the Powerplay and he has a better shot and he is bigger, these are advantages he has. For the record I would prefer Schultz at $3.6 on a 1-2 year deal to Franson at $5.5+ million on a long term deal, but that doesn't mean I don't consider not signing Schultz at all a better option then either choice.

 

[Soundwave]

Is that hypothetical (Franson averages 2 points a season more than Schultz the past 3 years) 10 points a year worth an extra 2+ million per year over a long term deal?

In a vaccuum maybe you take Franson over Schultz. Maybe. They are both fairly flawed players with bad defensive games and mediocre offensive games. Franson has a better shot, Schultz is a better skater and better at activating on the rush. But even if you give the nod to Franson right now. He's older (will be 28 to start next season vs 25 for Schultz), unlikely to get any better and will cost substantially more in both term and dollars.

Schultz at 3.6 for 1 or 2 years >>>>>> Franson at 5.5+ for 6+ years

Agreed.

 

[oiler4ever]

isn't NHL buyout period deadline today? or is it tomorrow

 

[Soundwave]

Other than Fayne and Poo the rest play 10 mins a game. Poo also has not been on a team for more than a year but I have praised him to no end. I gave you an example in Calgary where 4 players played top minutes. Suggesting bottom minutes guys is not an arguement. You gave me 2. That is not the recipe for success, especially not in Calgarys case. You are not competive with bottom guys who play minimal minutes.

Suggesting that Hall,RNH, Ebs, Yak make no mistakes without veteran leadership? Have they actually learned from vets? What can they preach abou wining or leadersip at their age? They only know how to lose. It's not their fault mind you, but to suggest they have some seasoned qualities is ridiculous

If only they someone to "coach" them out of their bad habits some how. But we all knows that's crazy talk.

 

[Paralyzer008]

isn't NHL buyout period deadline today? or is it tomorrow

You can start buying players out June 18 (tomorrow) until June 30.

 

[oiler4ever]

You can start buying players out June 18 (tomorrow) until June 30.

thank you

 

[CornKicker]

You can start buying players out June 18 (tomorrow) until June 30.

and my assumption would be that teams try to exhaust all trade possibilities before buying someone outright. so we should see majority of buyouts if there is any closer to the 30th.

 

[CupofOil]

veterans like Thornton are often used to put a playoff team over the top to win a cup, but they also have use for a team like ours. His mentorship would be invaluable to our young forwards, and he would make the team better which helps everyone.

The only question is if Thornton would even waive to come here. He probably wants a cup. The odds are probably less than 50% that he would come here but it's worth asking. I bet SJ would be open to selling him to create a bit of a youth movement.

But why waste top assets on another center and an old one at that who won't even be here when the team is contending when there is such a glaring need for defenseman and goalies?

IMO, it would be beyond ridiculous to deal 16th overall++ for a 36 year old Thornton for mentorship primarily. If they want to bring in a mentor, I'm sure there are many many cheaper options that they can go to.

Also, the PP units are already overstocked as is with halfboard wizards. Do they really need another top playmaker on the PP?
I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense to go down this road IMO and why would he want to come here anyway? It's Cup or bust for him at this point I'm sure.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

and my assumption would be that teams try to exhaust all trade possibilities before buying someone outright. so we should see majority of buyouts if there is any closer to the 30th.

Depends, if a team wants to add at the draft, you can't really wait. Besides, exhausting the trade possibilities won't likely take too long.

I suspect we'll see a few buyouts before the draft.

 

[Halibut]

But why waste top assets on another center and an old one at that who won't even be here when the team is contending when there is such a glaring need for defenseman and goalies?

IMO, it would be beyond ridiculous to deal 16th overall++ for a 36 year old Thornton for mentorship primarily. If they want to bring in a mentor, I'm sure there are many many cheaper options that they can go to.

Also, the PP units are already overstocked as is with halfboard wizards. Do they really need another top playmaker on the PP?
I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense to go down this road IMO and why would he want to come here anyway? It's Cup or bust for him at this point I'm sure.

I'm not a big fan of the Thornton talk either and I dont think it's a realistic option. Cant see him agreeing to waive his NTC to come here and I cant see SJ giving him away for nothing.

Having said that getting a legit #1 center like him opens up some possibilities for other moves. With Thornton, RNH, McDavid, Draisaitl, Lander, Gordon as our center depth we're free to send at least one valuable piece out. I think a RNH for Seth Jones or Dougie Hamilton deal becomes completely reasonable for us. Our young centers are sheltered for a few seasons, our defence gets better, our team is better balanced. I think for cap reasons alone bringing in Thornton and his almost $7 million cap hit means one of our elite pieces have to move out and center looks to be our deepest forward position all of a sudden.

 

[joestevens29]

Depends, if a team wants to add at the draft, you can't really wait. Besides, exhausting the trade possibilities won't likely take too long.

I suspect we'll see a few buyouts before the draft.

Haven't we saw in the past a guy get waived and then dealt/boughtout days after?

I have to think that a lot of GM's have been talking already anyway so it wouldn't shock me to see deals or buyouts in the next couple days.

 

[McRobbiezyg]

And in addition, they have to go through waivers so we might see people on waivers today to be bought out tomorrow.. I imagine teams have been in discussions to trade players during playoffs so they already know which players they plan on buying out.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm not a big fan of the Thornton talk either and I dont think it's a realistic option. Cant see him agreeing to waive his NTC to come here and I cant see SJ giving him away for nothing.

Having said that getting a legit #1 center like him opens up some possibilities for other moves. With Thornton, RNH, McDavid, Draisaitl, Lander, Gordon as our center depth we're free to send at least one valuable piece out. I think a RNH for Seth Jones or Dougie Hamilton deal becomes completely reasonable for us. Our young centers are sheltered for a few seasons, our defence gets better, our team is better balanced. I think for cap reasons alone bringing in Thornton and his almost $7 million cap hit means one of our elite pieces have to move out and center looks to be our deepest forward position all of a sudden.

Thornton doesn't make RNH expendable though.
There are risks to such a scenario besides the fact that they are giving up their best expendable asset for a 36 year old center.
For example, his game falls off badly in the next couple of years and then Draisaitl proves not to be worthy of the vacated #2C role at least not to the level that RNH played.
Draisaitl is the only one who MIGHT make RNH expendable in a couple of years but that needs to play out over time.

The team is not ready to make a move like this IMO. Contending teams bring in a final piece like Thornton, not a team like the Oilers that lets be honest, is still in a developing stage as much as we'd like for them to contend next season.

 

[Young Lions*]

I'm not a big fan of the Thornton talk either and I dont think it's a realistic option. Cant see him agreeing to waive his NTC to come here and I cant see SJ giving him away for nothing.

Having said that getting a legit #1 center like him opens up some possibilities for other moves. With Thornton, RNH, McDavid, Draisaitl, Lander, Gordon as our center depth we're free to send at least one valuable piece out. I think a RNH for Seth Jones or Dougie Hamilton deal becomes completely reasonable for us. Our young centers are sheltered for a few seasons, our defence gets better, our team is better balanced. I think for cap reasons alone bringing in Thornton and his almost $7 million cap hit means one of our elite pieces have to move out and center looks to be our deepest forward position all of a sudden.

Moving out RNH to make room for a guy who has, at best, four years left is insane regardless of the return.

 

[Halibut]

Thornton doesn't make RNH expendable though.
There are risks to such a scenario besides the fact that they are giving up their best expendable asset for a 36 year old center.
For example, his game falls off badly in the next couple of years and then Draisaitl proves not to be worthy of the vacated #2C role at least not to the level that RNH played.
Draisaitl is the only one who MIGHT make RNH expendable in a couple of years but that needs to play out over time.

The team is not ready to make a move like this IMO. Contending teams bring in a final piece like Thornton, not a team like the Oilers that lets be honest, is still in a developing stage as much as we'd like for them to contend next season.

Just to be clear I'd never include RNH in a trade for Thornton. We'd have to be picking him up for something cheap like the #16 pick and Yakupov. If we did this I'm sorry but RNH is incredibly expendable. There's some risk long term like you say if McDavid or Draisaitl fail to develop but the upside of getting a young #1 d-man is more than worth it.

There will never be a time when the team is ready to make such a move. If you wait 2 years everyone is older and there is less need for a Thornton to shelter the young guys and less upside from him. If the opportunity is there now you have to explore it, if it's not then maybe something else comes along but maybe not. We cant keep waiting for things to just happen.

 

[Young Lions*]

Just to be clear I'd never include RNH in a trade for Thornton. We'd have to be picking him up for something cheap like the #16 pick and Yakupov. If we did this I'm sorry but RNH is incredibly expendable. There's some risk long term like you say if McDavid or Draisaitl fail to develop but the upside of getting a young #1 d-man is more than worth it.

Just no.

There will never be a time when the team is ready to make such a move. If you wait 2 years everyone is older and there is less need for a Thornton to shelter the young guys and less upside from him. If the opportunity is there now you have to explore it, if it's not then maybe something else comes along but maybe not. We cant keep waiting for things to just happen.

We don't need Thornton to shelter the young guys. RNH is already capable of playing top competition and producing. He's younger and far cheaper at this point with his best years still ahead of him. Cut out the middle man and use the assets you'd spend on Thornton of the young D you desire.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Haven't we saw in the past a guy get waived and then dealt/boughtout days after?

I have to think that a lot of GM's have been talking already anyway so it wouldn't shock me to see deals or buyouts in the next couple days.

I mean I'm shocked we haven't seen any trades yet, as I assume the GMs have been talking a lot. I wonder if the NHL wants quietly for teams to "wait" until after the finals and the awards.

 

[SK13]

RE: Thornton.

Is it realistic? No. The issue with Thornton and Wilson is specifically his unwillingness to waive his NTC for ANYONE. He doesn't want to leave the bay area for any organization whatsoever. It seems as though he thinks he can wait out Wilson, and hope his successor doesn't want to move him as badly.

Is there a reason for it? Also no. McDavid won't need to be "sheltered" to produce offense, and you just have to take whatever defensive short-falls there is as part of the package. In truth, he's already well sheltered by RNH and Gordon and should have extremely high offensive zone starts and cherry competition, particularly at home. A big centre is the absolute last thing the Oilers should be spending any assets on. Literally, every other position is currently more important for the Oilers. W, D and G.

I mean I'm shocked we haven't seen any trades yet, as I assume the GMs have been talking a lot. I wonder if the NHL wants quietly for teams to "wait" until after the finals and the awards.

They almost never trade before the Cup is handed out, and on the rare occasion it happens, teams get static from the league.

If the typical pattern holds, one or two things might happen before the draft but the real action occurs from the draft through July ~3rd

 

[Halibut]

We don't need Thornton to shelter the young guys. RNH is already capable of playing top competition and producing. He's younger and far cheaper at this point with his best years still ahead of him. Cut out the middle man and use the assets you'd spend on Thornton of the young D you desire.

Those assets dont get you the elite young D that's why you take advantage of a situation where a Thornton is available for a relatively cheap price. Of course this is going on a hypothetical that probably doesnt exist since like I said originally I dont believe he waives his movement clauses to come here.

I still stand by RNH being expendable if we pick up a veteran #1 center like Thornton. I'd consider moving him now if the right deal came along. He's a good player but this team really needs to change it's makeup if we're ever going to be a contender.

 

[CupofOil]

Just to be clear I'd never include RNH in a trade for Thornton. We'd have to be picking him up for something cheap like the #16 pick and Yakupov. If we did this I'm sorry but RNH is incredibly expendable. There's some risk long term like you say if McDavid or Draisaitl fail to develop but the upside of getting a young #1 d-man is more than worth it.

There will never be a time when the team is ready to make such a move. If you wait 2 years everyone is older and there is less need for a Thornton to shelter the young guys and less upside from him. If the opportunity is there now you have to explore it, if it's not then maybe something else comes along but maybe not. We cant keep waiting for things to just happen.

I understand the want to get a #1 Dman but I just can't buy the idea that Thornton in any way shape or form makes RNH expendable.
Also, Yakupov+16th is hardly a cheap for price for a 36 year old center.

If Draisaitl proves in 2-3 years that he's the real deal then we're having a completely different conversation but as of now, RNH should be virtually untouchable otherwise, you're creating a hole by filling another one.

I just think an old center is waaaaay down the priority list, probably the last thing the Oilers need.
I'd rather bring in an old Chara than an old Thornton if we're talking about exhausting valuable assets for veteran leadership.

 

[joestevens29]

I mean I'm shocked we haven't seen any trades yet, as I assume the GMs have been talking a lot. I wonder if the NHL wants quietly for teams to "wait" until after the finals and the awards.

I looked back June 5th was first trade last year and the 17th was first buyout. 5 buyouts from 17th -20th.

First big trade was 23rd last year, Hartnell for RJ.

Draft was 27th-28th

Essentially 8 buyouts before the draft, although 2 were day of.

Looks like 7 trades before the draft, but 3 were the day of.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I looked back June 5th was first trade last year and the 17th was first buyout. 5 buyouts from 17th -20th.

First big trade was 23rd last year, Hartnell for RJ.

Draft was 27th-28th

Yeah, looks like the they have unwritten rules about stayed quiet for the Finals and the Awards. Makes sense.