Rumor: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXV: It's a Marty Party [*Mod Warning post #132]

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Clearly Boston was in the midst of a massive rebuild when they traded Kessel, as was San Jose at the deadline last year.:sarcasm:

I feel like people see things in black or white with no in between. Teams can trade away older or expiring assets for futures such as young players, prospects, and picks and still remain competitive and perhaps become even more successful than they were before.

Exactly. Thank you for stating it so succinctly.
 
I don't think we will win a cup with MSL this year or next and I think it definitely hurts the future to lose JTM so I wouldn't do that. I don't think Sather will give up Miller or McI. I think anything else is on the table prospect/pick wise. That's just what I think Sather and the organization will cling to.

Why cant we win the cup with MSL? Because all i hear is your opinion. The rangers have a more healthy (and even when healthy) a better defense than both pittsburgh and boston. They have a clear better goalie than pittsburghs situation. They role 4 lines. MSL doesnt give us a legitimate chance?? In the words you guys like to use...Pls.
 
Maybe I read this wrong but essentially it seems you think "People want to trade Cally b/c they think we are in a rebuild bc we had a crappy first half of the season" But most people want cally to go simply bc we are realistically looking at the likelihood of re-signing him to his exhorbitant contract request. If he was being even remotely reasonable no one would be asking to move him. This is evident in the Girardi thread where his requested contract is VERY reasonable and almost no one actually wants Girardi gone.

I understand why most people want to let Callahan go. The thing is the current Rangers aren't in a position to rebuild. The trade scenario's of getting strictly prospects for Callahan are what I take issue with.

We can sit here and say Callahan has crazy demands but they aren't crazy.....You know why? A team will pay him what he wants. The market is what it is. Is the market crazy? Perhaps but Callahan is asking for what he's worth. Would I pay him what he's asking for? No, but a team will. That doesn't make his demands exorbitant.

Losing Callahan for nothing would suck but the Rangers aren't close to trading him yet. If they were he wouldn't be practicing or playing. Fans need to brace themselves for the scenario that a team doesn't meet the Rangers demands and Callahan isn't traded.

The Rangers can keep Callahan for the playoff run and trade his rights at the draft. I know the instant gratification fans will hate that but I don't care. The Rangers should not give Callahan away. They should be looking to improve the team not the organization..
 
Why cant we win the cup with MSL? Because all i hear is your opinion. The rangers have a more healthy (and even when healthy) a better defense than both pittsburgh and boston. They have a clear better goalie than pittsburghs situation. They role 4 lines. MSL doesnt give us a legitimate chance?? In the words you guys like to use...Pls.

I didn't say we can't just that I don't think we will based on nothing more than my own fear of getting my hopes up. So you were correct in thinking that all you were hearing was my opinion definitely not fact. I actually am very giddy about the trade bc in my real fanatic heart I want to say "OMG WE GOT THE CUP THIS IS GONNA BE SO AMAZING!!!!" I just don't wanna be hurt anymore...lol
 
If an elite player is on the market for a cutrate price (we don't know, really, but if) and we pass him up for Jesper Fast and a couple of second round draft picks, we are rebuilding. At least we're not taking the next couple years very seriously.

It's not rebuilding, it's simply being smart and looking at the bigger picture. I'm in favor of trading for MSL, but when his contract is up, and Fast is an NHL regular on the Lighting, and we AGAIN give up a 2nd round pick, it WILL start to have negative effects. We already have the 27th worst pool in the NHL.
 
Yeah, the East is wide open...except for Pittsburgh and Boston.

I think Pittsburgh still has the same flaws they had last year. And the year before.

Their defensemen are kind of so-so as a group and Fleury is a melt down waiting to happen. If the Pens can't power their way past an opponent with Crosby, Malkin, and Neil blowing everyone away, they'll struggle again IMO.

Boston is Boston...I think they can be beaten but they can also beat anyone. They very nearly lost to Toronto in the first round last year, and lost to Washington in the first round the year before that.
 
Why cant we win the cup with MSL? Because all i hear is your opinion. The rangers have a more healthy (and even when healthy) a better defense than both pittsburgh and boston. They have a clear better goalie than pittsburghs situation. They role 4 lines. MSL doesnt give us a legitimate chance?? In the words you guys like to use...Pls.

Because our #1C not only ISN'T even a #1C, he plays like a #3C in the playoffs. We're lacking at center and offense from defensemen.

Crosby/Malkin, Krejci/Bergeron against Stepan/Richards...
 
I understand why most people want to let Callahan go. The thing is the current Rangers aren't in a position to rebuild. The trade scenario's of getting strictly prospects for Callahan are what I take issue with.

We can sit here and say Callahan has crazy demands but they aren't crazy.....You know why? A team will pay him what he wants. The market is what it is. Is the market crazy? Perhaps but Callahan is asking for what he's worth. Would I pay him what he's asking for? No, but a team will. That doesn't make his demands exorbitant.

Losing Callahan for nothing would suck but the Rangers aren't close to trading him yet. If they were he wouldn't be practicing or playing. Fans need to brace themselves for the scenario that a team doesn't meet the Rangers demands and Callahan isn't traded.

The Rangers can keep Callahan for the playoff run and trade his rights at the draft. I know the instant gratification fans will hate that but I don't care. The Rangers should not give Callahan away. They should be looking to improve the team not the organization..

You have to maximize the return. No matter what that is. If the difference is Chris Stewart + 2nd or a team's 1st + very high end center prospect I take the 2nd offer. You can use other assets to upgrade elsewhere.
 
I didn't say we can't just that I don't think we will based on nothing more than my own fear of getting my hopes up. So you were correct in thinking that all you were hearing was my opinion definitely not fact. I actually am very giddy about the trade bc in my real fanatic heart I want to say "OMG WE GOT THE CUP THIS IS GONNA BE SO AMAZING!!!!"

But what do you think about the argument points?

Look at what our defense did to a very talented Hawks team last night. Everyone talks about the quality of the West and they are right. The Rangers showed last night what a suffocating defense can do to a quality offensive team.
 
I think Pittsburgh still has the same flaws they had last year. And the year before.

Their defensemen are kind of so-so as a group and Fleury is a melt down waiting to happen. If the Pens can't power their way past an opponent with Crosby, Malkin, and Neil blowing everyone away, they'll struggle again IMO.

Boston is Boston...I think they can be beaten but they can also beat anyone. They very nearly lost to Toronto in the first round last year, and lost to Washington in the first round the year before that.

I think they look at add a high end d-man at this deadline. They have a lot of pieces available. that teams would like.
 
I understand why most people want to let Callahan go. The thing is the current Rangers aren't in a position to rebuild. The trade scenario's of getting strictly prospects for Callahan are what I take issue with.

We can sit here and say Callahan has crazy demands but they aren't crazy.....You know why? A team will pay him what he wants. The market is what it is. Is the market crazy? Perhaps but Callahan is asking for what he's worth. Would I pay him what he's asking for? No, but a team will. That doesn't make his demands exorbitant.

Losing Callahan for nothing would suck but the Rangers aren't close to trading him yet. If they were he wouldn't be practicing or playing. Fans need to brace themselves for the scenario that a team doesn't meet the Rangers demands and Callahan isn't traded.

The Rangers can keep Callahan for the playoff run and trade his rights at the draft. I know the instant gratification fans will hate that but I don't care. The Rangers should not give Callahan away. They should be looking to improve the team not the organization..

The fifth round pick at the draft is not going to "improve this organization" anywhere near as much as a return now would.

Callahan is our third most important RW. We have JT and Fast ready to take over. They wouldn't be as good as Cally right away, but they'll be suitable replacements.
 
I understand why most people want to let Callahan go. The thing is the current Rangers aren't in a position to rebuild. The trade scenario's of getting strictly prospects for Callahan are what I take issue with.

We can sit here and say Callahan has crazy demands but they aren't crazy.....You know why? A team will pay him what he wants. The market is what it is. Is the market crazy? Perhaps but Callahan is asking for what he's worth. Would I pay him what he's asking for? No, but a team will. That doesn't make his demands exorbitant.

Losing Callahan for nothing would suck but the Rangers aren't close to trading him yet. If they were he wouldn't be practicing or playing. Fans need to brace themselves for the scenario that a team doesn't meet the Rangers demands and Callahan isn't traded.

The Rangers can keep Callahan for the playoff run and trade his rights at the draft. I know the instant gratification fans will hate that but I don't care. The Rangers should not give Callahan away. They should be looking to improve the team not the organization..

It's about getting the right prospects too. Let's say we trade Callahan for a guy like Hertl? It's different than getting a pick or some random prospect y'know. The smart teams identify the prospects who are worth letting go or trading for and nab em so that they can contribute within a season going forward. If a team trades for JT Miller (like TB) I think TB in that case is making a very wise move. yea he's a prospect but he's RIGHT on the verge of being a significant contributor.

Also I don't agree with the reasoning for why it isn't crazy. I should clarify when I think crazy what I really think is "a move that will have a negative impact". Best example is Redden. Everyone knew he was on the decline and many realized very quickly (if they didn't already know) that it was a crazy contract to give out. Just because one person is willing to do something crazy/negative that doesn't mean it's ok.

I think if Buffalo wants to give callahan 7 years and 7.5 AAV then they are making a mistake. They could absorb that kind of mistake because they are so bad now and for the foreseeable future though. I think it would be wise to identify such a contract as a bad move and avoid it for the Rangers. I could be wrong. Maybe he plays at this level for another 5 years and he justifies his contract. It's totally possible but it just doesn't seem likely. It seems more likely he'll fall off just like Drury did only he'll have more years and money for a team to eat up and regret guaranteeing
 
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UH OH Kyle Jean called up to Hartford from Greenville. Here come the prospect from Hartford trade scenarios LOL
 
But what do you think about the argument points?

Look at what our defense did to a very talented Hawks team last night. Everyone talks about the quality of the West and they are right. The Rangers showed last night what a suffocating defense can do to a quality offensive team.

When i say what the real fanatic in me thinks that's me essentially saying "Oh ******* yea this team looks damn good right now". But it's so damn hard to win it all. That said this team isn't very far away and a MSL could push it over the top. But I also realize we could have finishing issues or something and lose as well.
 
It's not rebuilding, it's simply being smart and looking at the bigger picture. I'm in favor of trading for MSL, but when his contract is up, and Fast is an NHL regular on the Lighting, and we AGAIN give up a 2nd round pick, it WILL start to have negative effects. We already have the 27th worst pool in the NHL.

Pretty much. The best teams all do this type of thing. They have players constantly come through their system replacing guys who are on the outs and they trade those guys on the outs for picks and prospects.

We're not forfeiting the season by trading Callahan for prospects and picks. I don't even know that our team is signficantly weaker. He's not featured on the PP (when Zucc is in the lineup), he isn't PK'ing as much and we have enough guys who can fill that role and frankly, he isn't scoring that much, either.

Is he effective, yea, but the haul he can bring back is more valuable to long term success then it is to the short term.

Personally, I think we have Miller who can fill his role, not to his level but enough to warrant a trade for picks.

It's not rebuilding, or retooling even, in my opinion, it's proper asset management and it's a continuation of the good we have done with our development over the past decade.

We have a good young core, adding pieces to that core that will be here in a few years is important. Look at how Detroit did it for years and how Pitt has done it since Crosby arrived. The models for success are pretty simplistic.

Our main core is young and quite good. Lets strengthen it by adding future players to that, not 38 year olds who we're lucky if we can squeeze three good years from.
 
When i say what the real fanatic in me thinks that's me essentially saying "Oh ******* yea this team looks damn good right now". But it's so damn hard to win it all. That said this team isn't very far away and a MSL could push it over the top. But I also realize we could have finishing issues or something and lose as well.

The same can be said for Pittsburgh, they could have goaltending and defense issues. The Bruins could have defense issues.

Things happen.
 
You have to maximize the return. No matter what that is. If the difference is Chris Stewart + 2nd or a team's 1st + very high end center prospect I take the 2nd offer. You can use other assets to upgrade elsewhere.

Chris Stewart and a 2nd is worth more......

You don't know if that high end center prospect is going to amount to anything. Ya know, more prospects fail than succeed.

Very few prospects are sure things. Do you honestly think the Rangers can get a high end center prospect and a 1st round pick for Callahan? Throw out some names instead of just saying high end center. Otherwise this is a pointless exchange. I don't know what prospect we are even debating.....
 
I'd rather Callahan get traded for some C depth but the deals have to be there...
 
If you expect to have a strength in evey facet of your team then that is being unrealistic.

Unrealistic to think you need offense from defensemen and a top center to win a Cup?

Toews/Keith/Seabrook
Kopitar/Doughty
Krejci/Chara
Toews/Keith/Seabrook
Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Gonchar
Datsyuk/Lidstrom/Rafalski
Getzlaf/Pronger/Niedermayer
Staal/Kaberle/Hedican
 
I'd still rather see a reverse Clowe like deal.

Trade for some futures then turn around and trade lesser futures for the right player to try to complete the team.
 
Unrealistic to think you need offense from defensemen and a top center to win a Cup?

Toews/Keith/Seabrook
Kopitar/Doughty
Krejci/Chara
Toews/Keith/Seabrook
Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Gonchar
Datsyuk/Lidstrom/Rafalski
Getzlaf/Pronger/Niedermayer
Staal/Kaberle/Hedican

They are so good you just had to list them twice? Troll. :laugh:
 
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