Speculation: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXIV: C'est la St. Louis?

[Clown Fiesta]

Is Vatanen similar to Tory Krug?

You mean Bobby Orr?

 

[Ail]

How would you feel about (and I know this is vague, but what choice do we have?)

Girardi to Anaheim for Vatanen +(pick or 'spect)

Callahan to Blues for Stewart + 2nd

Stewart, a pick, and a prospect to Tampa for Martin St. Louis

Rangers acquire 38 year old reigning Art Ross winner, and 22 year old RD with high upside. Hedges bets of "win now" vs. keeping an eye on the future.

That is the scenario I am hoping shakes out. It's a compromise and only works because of the pedigree of MSL. Any other aging rental gets the big no thanks from me. Even Jagr.

 

[Ola]

Vatanen could get there, but you always have to be skeptical about those small offensive-minded d-man. How many of them ever develop their defensive game enough to play a Top 2 role?

Vatanen instead of Girardi would definitely weaken the Rangers defense for the next few years, and these were the years that the Rangers were supposed to make that push for the cup with the core in their prime.

I am a bit confused, how many of them didn't?

I definitely agree with you that Girardi is valuble and that in loosing him we loose a lot of defensive ability, not to mention attitude, chemistry in our locker-room etc. Its a tremendous loss.

And I am not saying that Vatenen will become a Norris Candidate, but there are a lot of smaller offensive minded D's out there that get by just fine. We saw that young kid in Boston for example adopt from College like it was the easiest thing. The smaller D's that has struggled from my point of view has been the one who wasn't good enough offensively, if you can't contribute offensively it is tough to stay in the league. I can't really think of a smaller D that had the offensive game but that couldn't get by defensively.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

But he's not. And he's not going to have all the space he had on the bigger Sochi ice surface. There's not many 5'8" - 5'10" Dmen who succeed in the NHL.

If you look at Dmen under 6ft,

Shattenkirk
Brian Campbell
Andy Greene
Dan Boyle
Tobias Enstrom

All pretty good players, that was just a few of the players I looked at

 

[Ola]

Is Vatanen similar to Tory Krug?

Yes, I think that this is a fair comparision. Kimmo Timmonen is another. Toby Enström.

I think you want to see him really get it done offensively on the point of a PP in the NHL before you lock down how good he is, he has yet to do that in Anaheim, but he is thay type of player...

 

[Stasis]

Welp, I'm gonna spend the day sitting here studying and periodically checking out this insanity. I sure hope we get some news before the game, but I'm not counting on it at this point. I'm counting on nothing except the fact that someone, or multiple someones, currently on the team no longer will be before the deadline.

I'd like MSL. I'd like Vatanen too. I don't see how both happen, nor how that makes us stronger unless there are some additional moves. Cally's replaceable. Girardi is a lot harder to replace, and Vatanen isn't the answer to that. At least not in the short-term. Not right now. Many people here underestimate what G means to the team. To any team.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Girardi resigned at 6 for 6 if not then;

Girardi and Dorsett to Anaheim for Vatanen, Devonte Smith-Pelly, 3rd rounder.

Callahan to Wild for Zucker and a 2nd.

 

[Trxjw]

That and the fact that he's not good enough to help the Ducks this season, which is why the Ducks are looking to make a trade to bring in a defender like Girardi.

So what? If he can help us moving forward, it really doesn't matter what he can do for the Ducks right now. They are the best team in the NHL right now. They can afford to move a piece like Vatanen for a major upgrade in Girardi.

Frankly, Vatanen is an upgrade on John Moore right now.

But he's not. And he's not going to have all the space he had on the bigger Sochi ice surface. There's not many 5'8" - 5'10" Dmen who succeed in the NHL.

His size hasn't been a major factor so far, so I can't envision it being one moving forward. His defensive reads are questionable, but he's smart enough to use his stick instead of his body and quick enough to skate out of corners instead of out muscling people.

 

[TheTakedown]

That is the scenario I am hoping shakes out. It's a compromise and only works because of the pedigree of MSL. Any other aging rental gets the big no thanks from me. Even Jagr.

I would take Jagr if the devs held onto half of his salary

 

[Larrybiv]

I suddenly really like Dreger

Always did.......he's in the know. And intelligent/reasonable.

Girardi resigned at 6 for 6 if not then;

Girardi and Dorsett to Anaheim for Vatanen, Devonte Smith-Pelly, 3rd rounder.

Callahan to Wild for Zucker and a 2nd.

Dan isn't going anywhere, nor does he want to. Losing both is too much of a shakeup, and would disturb our gentle balance on Defense.
Cally to Minnesota? Where did u get that one?
Why would Ducks want Dorsett? Are they too big?

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I'm not saying Vatanen is even in the same stratosphere as Zubov but the size and judgement were issues when he was traded back after 95.

He fits AV's system and his shot is his biggest asset. He has the chance to QB the Rangers PP for the next decade. Pair him with a stay at home. Longterm you can always slightly overpay for a Nikitan or someone on the open market this summer and limit his ES minutes if he's that big of a liability.

 

[Larrybiv]

When push comes to shove.......

Why would we upgrade getting MSL,
then downgrade losing Danny...........and I don't care who the hell they give us!

Just wouldn't make any sense for the here and NOW!

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Dan isn't going anywhere, nor does he want to. Losing both is too much of a shakeup, and would disturb our gentle balance on Defense.
Cally to Minnesota? Where did u get that one?
Why would Ducks want Dorsett? Are they too big?

Minnesota could always use an upgrade and they're looking to add.

Dorsett to me is expendable with Carcillo's chemistry with the fourth line. He can't play top nine minutes. He has a year left of his contract. Treat him the same way as Ville Niemanen at the 06 deadline. Get a 3rd or 4th rounder and take a risk on a high end player. His roster spot can go to a kid next year.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

When push comes to shove.......

Why would we upgrade getting MSL,
then downgrade losing Danny...........and I don't care who the hell they give us!

Just wouldn't make any sense for the here and NOW!

I tend to agree. In a perfect world, I'd rather spin off Callahan for assets and use them for an MSL trade.

But something seems amock with the Girardi negotiations. Maybe he realized he'll get more on the open market. Maybe the Rangers realized he could be the #1 trade chip in the league at this deadline. Maybe one decision precipitated another.

Who knows - but his original demands were pretty consistent with his sticker price -- strange it isnt done.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't know whether Miller will or won't, he probably won't, if this team's history of developing center's is any indication. The problem is, I'm pretty damn sure Kesler won't be putting upt 70+ again, either.

He won't, but he will be a better player than Miller for the next few years. If the Rangers intend to make a push in the next few years, you are going to need to give up some future assets for current assets.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

He won't, but he will be a better player than Miller for the next few years. If the Rangers intend to make a push in the next few years, you are going to need to give up some future assets for current assets.

...and preferably those current assets will be guys like Callahan who are depreciating and have already provided their best days to the Rangers.

Not a 20 year old kid averaging a point per game in the AHL.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'm not saying Vatanen is even in the same stratosphere as Zubov but the size and judgement were issues when he was traded back after 95.

He fits AV's system and his shot is his biggest asset. He has the chance to QB the Rangers PP for the next decade. Pair him with a stay at home. Longterm you can always slightly overpay for a Nikitan or someone on the open market this summer and limit his ES minutes if he's that big of a liability.

I don't think that's the case. From what I've seen in Anaheim, he's capable in his own zone, but can be taken advantage of with big time forwards. I think the longer he's in the NHL the quicker that becomes less of an issue. He seemed to get better each time I saw him.

 

[Ail]

I tend to agree. In a perfect world, I'd rather spin off Callahan for assets and use them for an MSL trade.

But something seems amock with the Girardi negotiations. Maybe he realized he'll get more on the open market. Maybe the Rangers realized he could be the #1 trade chip in the league at this deadline. Maybe one decision precipitated another.

Who knows - but his original demands were pretty consistent with his sticker price -- strange it isnt done.

Yeah honestly the one thing I actually felt was for sure coming out of the break was Girardi inking a new deal.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

He won't, but he will be a better player than Miller for the next few years. If the Rangers intend to make a push in the next few years, you are going to need to give up some future assets for current assets.

Yeah but there is a smart way of doing it. If Kesler is on the decline and Miller is on the rise I'd rather keep the guy coming up and get more use out of him. It's situational, but I firmly believe it's best to keep Miller long term than acquire a declining Kesler.

 

[NYR Viper]

People stress size too much on defense. The Rangers need skill. They have good defensive d-men and more on the way. They have no player who can really push the pace and provide some offense. MDZ was supposed to be that player. Moore looks more like a 2-way guy. Those guys are valuable.

Vatanen is 5'10. So is Timmonen. Karlsson isn't much larger. Krug. These players can skate. Will they get out-muscled from time to time? Sure. But this isn't clutch and grab hockey anymore.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I am a bit confused, how many of them didn't?

I definitely agree with you that Girardi is valuble and that in loosing him we loose a lot of defensive ability, not to mention attitude, chemistry in our locker-room etc. Its a tremendous loss.

And I am not saying that Vatenen will become a Norris Candidate, but there are a lot of smaller offensive minded D's out there that get by just fine. We saw that young kid in Boston for example adopt from College like it was the easiest thing. The smaller D's that has struggled from my point of view has been the one who wasn't good enough offensively, if you can't contribute offensively it is tough to stay in the league. I can't really think of a smaller D that had the offensive game but that couldn't get by defensively.

I'm just saying that the kid doesn't presently have the game to step in and play 23-25 MPG against a line like the Crosby line in the playoffs. You are sacrificing the present for the future with this potential trade. You would be hoping that Vatanen can eventually put it together defensively to become a top 2 defenseman? I don't know what this kid will become, but I don't want to trade Girardi for an unknown just because people say Vatanen has upside. He is no sure thing, and I am not trading Girardi unless I get a sure thing.

 

[Todd Harvey]

Wow, too much craziness floating around;
Rather than what I think this or that tweet means, or betting what they'll actually end up doing, I'll just say what I'd do, based on who seems available;

I'd do Cally + conditional for MSL.

I'd swap a good (not top) prospect and a pick, maybe two, for Curtis Glencross. and Id sign Girardi long term.

Maybe not as exciting as some of whats in the air, but it'd make them real solid.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I have a feeling if Cally is dealt itll be something completely different than MSL or what weve heard from St. Louis. Just a hunch. Girardi will be resigned imo.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

...and preferably those current assets will be guys like Callahan who are depreciating and have already provided their best days to the Rangers.

Not a 20 year old kid averaging a point per game in the AHL.

What can Callahan really fetch in a trade? He can't fetch MSL from all indications. I don't think he is as valuable as we like to think.

 

[Ail]

Wow, too much craziness floating around;
Rather than what I think this or that tweet means, or betting what they'll actually end up doing, I'll just say what I'd do, based on who seems available;

I'd do Cally + conditional for MSL.

I'd swap a good (not top) prospect and a pick, maybe two, for Curtis Glencross. and Id sign Girardi long term.

Maybe not as exciting as some of whats in the air, but it'd make them real solid.

I don't think Calgary makes Glencross available barring massive overpayment.