Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXIII: Clever Title Pending

[Trxjw]

The Rangers missed the boat on ROR already. He's a key piece for the Avs and he'll be kept.

Once again, the Rangers lack an impact center, PP QB, and grit in the top-9. Same story, new summer.

 

[Raspewtin]

Have we drafted anyone since the lockout in the first round outside of Staal ('05 draft on) that has become an integral part of the team?

05 - Staal
06 - Sanguinetti
07 - Cherepanov (RIP)
08 - Del Zotto
09 - Kreider
10 - McIlrath
11 - Miller
12 - Skjei
13 - __________

Kreider is slowly becoming that guy. Well, he was that guy 'til the injury. Book is still out on Miller and McIlrath. Skjei can be a top-2 pairing LHD if he pans out. Still, not even close to enough.

That makes me want to throw up, and doesn't make me miss the 1st rounders we've sent away for MSL

I don't understand?

Sanguinetti busted, nothing to say here. BUT he turned into Fast, who's at least played NHL games.

Cherepanov needs no explanation.

Del Zotto was a very important part of this team when he was here. He had to play 23+ minutes a game when Staal went down last year, and played excellent. And when he stopped fitting, he got traded for something of value.

Kreider is obviously an integral part at this point. Look how ****** this team is in so many facets without him.

McIlrath is on his way.

Miller, despite your hilarious agenda against him, has great potential to fill a glaring need in this roster, a top 6 center with speed and size.

Skjei is 19 and is supposedly one of the best d-men in college hockey. Was he supposed to make an immediate impact?

These firsts seem fine to me. Only one pick was a legit mistake. McIlrath can be debated forever, not opening that can of worms.

Is EVERY first supposed to pan out to be greatness?

 

[silverfish]

The Rangers missed the boat on ROR already. He's a key piece for the Avs and he'll be kept.

Once again, the Rangers lack an impact center, PP QB, and grit in the top-9. Same story, new summer.

Avs are absolutely loaded at center. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that ROR could be had. Unlikely, sure. Couldn't hurt to make a play though

 

[Raspewtin]

The Rangers missed the boat on ROR already. He's a key piece for the Avs and he'll be kept.

Once again, the Rangers lack an impact center, PP QB, and grit in the top-9. Same story, new summer.

ROR wasn't a boat I'd have gone on.

Sherman wanted too much. Didn't he want Del Zotto + Stepan + 1st?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

ROR wasn't a boat I'd have gone on.

Sherman wanted too much. Didn't he want Del Zotto + Stepan + 1st?

I believe that was the rumor. Which means he may have taken less. Likely would have taken less. And sometimes I really do wonder how lopsided that even is, 1.5 years later.

I agree the ship has sailed. But they really, really need to identify similar young players (centers) who are either pigeonholed (no PP time for example) or on the verge of breaking out. And make a ballsy move.

 

[Raspewtin]

I believe that was the rumor. Which means he may have taken less. Likely would have taken less. And sometimes I really do wonder how lopsided that even is, 1.5 years later.

I agree the ship has sailed. But they really, really need to identify similar young players (centers) who are either pigeonholed (no PP time for example) or on the verge of breaking out. And make a ballsy move.

What makes this so difficult is that many teams that have these players, do the smart thing and trade the player blocking the ready prospect. And when they don't, it's probably because a truly elite player is blocking them. Like Adam Clendening getting blocked by Nick Leddy, Johnny Oduya, and Brent Seabrook in Chicago (for the record, I'd love to make a play for Clendening). Is there a reason to bring him into the lineup there?

Blues traded Stewart so Jaskin, the younger and more cost-controlled player, could come in and take his spot. It's what good teams do, which is why this finding players about to break out thing is harder than it looks, in my opinion.

But this team misses the boat on a lot of young elite talent being traded. It's so frustrating.

 

[Trxjw]

Avs are absolutely loaded at center. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that ROR could be had. Unlikely, sure. Couldn't hurt to make a play though

They're loaded at center, but not all of those guys listed as centers are playing there. ROR, Duchene and MacKinnon all play center and wing equally well. In fact, ROR has spent a ton of time as Duchene's LW and they have fantastic chemistry.

ROR wasn't a boat I'd have gone on.

Sherman wanted too much. Didn't he want Del Zotto + Stepan + 1st?

Depends on what rumors you want to believe. Del Zotto was the key piece, but I've heard from a few people that it was never Del Zotto AND Stepan. I heard the Rangers backed off when Miller's name was brought up in addition to Del Zotto.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

They're loaded at center, but not all of those guys listed as centers are playing there. ROR, Duchene and MacKinnon all play center and wing equally well. In fact, ROR has spent a ton of time as Duchene's LW and they have fantastic chemistry..

Clearly too versatile for the Rangers to seriously implore.

He needed to be a right wing demanding a trade to NYR.

 

[Kakko]

Hey look, we're having the 'our 1st round picks suck' conversation for the millionth time

 

[silverfish]

Okay, let's do this.

I don't understand?

Sanguinetti busted, nothing to say here. BUT he turned into Fast, who's at least played NHL games.

Need I have to say anything about your justification here? Sanguinetti busted, he was a bad pick. Good on Sather for turning nothing into possibly something.

Cherepanov needs no explanation.

Agreed. May he rest peacefully.

Del Zotto was a very important part of this team when he was here. He had to play 23+ minutes a game when Staal went down last year, and played excellent. And when he stopped fitting, he got traded for something of value.

For all intents and purposes, Del Zotto busted here. He had a good rookie season, a terrible sophomore season. Followed up by a good junior year, poor again in his senior year. And now, fifth year in the league, he can't put it together consistently. Again, good on Sather for turning nothing for the Rangers into something for the Rangers. I like Klein.

Kreider is obviously an integral part at this point. Look how ****** this team is in so many facets without him.

Which I've said. I'm excited for Kreider to hit the next level in his development.

McIlrath is on his way.

Is he? I hope so.

Miller, despite your hilarious agenda against him, has great potential to fill a glaring need in this roster, a top 6 center with speed and size.

My 'hilarious agenda' against Miller serves mostly as a point and counterpoint to the 'hilarious' overrating of Miller on this board. Potential is nice. You know who else had potential? Sanguinetti, Jessiman, Rick Kozak, Jozef Balej, Michael Del Zotto, etc... etc... etc...

I had a post a while back showing factual evidence that Miller in the lineup was a detriment to the Rangers and his linemates. I can't find it right now. I think it's in an old Recall/Assigned JT Miller thread. I searched through my posts, but it's not in my last 20 pages of posts

I need to spend less time on HF. Maybe I should focus at work?

Nah.

Skjei is 19 and is supposedly one of the best d-men in college hockey. Was he supposed to make an immediate impact?

Of course not. Where did I claim that? I cited Skjei's potential, and I am excited about the player he may become. But moving further on the line past the potential that Skjei has, I've seen more of Skjei that excites me than I have of Miller, I can tell you that much.

These firsts seem fine to me. Only one pick was a legit mistake. McIlrath can be debated forever, not opening that can of worms.

Is EVERY first supposed to pan out to be greatness?

Of course not. But surely (at this point) we should be batting higher than 2 out of 9. And the way some posters talk about losing the picks for MSL, I'm sure many posters (NOT ME) expect them to.

 

[zuckera1]

Why not?



And that is with re-signing pretty much everyone and allowing only (1) rookie to make the team. I get the feeling that we may see more like 2-3 with the way Fast, Miller, Allen, McIlrath and Lindberg played this season. Outside chances to Kristo and Hrivik/Bourque. That's an easy way to save some money.

Here's the kicker to your post: you have Miller at 3C rather than a UFA signing (Legwand/Grabovski). We're not a contender next year with Miller at 3C.

 

[Raspewtin]

For all intents and purposes, Del Zotto busted here. He had a good rookie season, a terrible sophomore season. Followed up by a good junior year, poor again in his senior year. And now, fifth year in the league, he can't put it together consistently. Again, good on Sather for turning nothing for the Rangers into something for the Rangers. I like Klein.


My 'hilarious agenda' against Miller serves mostly as a point and counterpoint to the 'hilarious' overrating of Miller on this board. Potential is nice. You know who else had potential? Sanguinetti, Jessiman, Rick Kozak, Jozef Balej, Michael Del Zotto, etc... etc... etc...

I had a post a while back showing factual evidence that Miller in the lineup was a detriment to the Rangers and his linemates. I can't find it right now. I think it's in an old Recall/Assigned JT Miller thread. I searched through my posts, but it's not in my last 20 pages of posts

I need to spend less time on HF. Maybe I should focus at work?

Nah.



Of course not. Where did I claim that? I cited Skjei's potential, and I am excited about the player he may become. But moving further on the line past the potential that Skjei has, I've seen more of Skjei that excites me than I have of Miller, I can tell you that much.



Of course not. But surely (at this point) we should be batting higher than 2 out of 9. And the way some posters talk about losing the picks for MSL, I'm sure many posters (NOT ME) expect them to.

I think we have different definitions of bust. A d-man that played 4 seasons here and scoring above 35 points twice is not a bust. Disappointed, yeah. And he got turned into something of value, which is all you can ask.

HF > Work AINEC

Not getting into a Miller debate, but we should remember he just turned 21. I think he's going to be very good. But that's not the point.

With regards to Skjei I wasn't implying that you thought he should have an immediate impact. Why I did write that though, is that your post implies Skjei is just another long line of first round disappointments. After all, that's why you wrote the post no?

And like someone already said, Miller, McIlrath, and Skjei are all still in the system. Del Zotto and Kreider are NHL players, whereas DZ was a good one for us. If we'd have given up on these players, traded them, or they were making no progress, the 2/9 comment would work better.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Here's the kicker to your post: you have Miller at 3C rather than a UFA signing (Legwand/Grabovski). We're not a contender next year with Miller at 3C.

We're not a "contender" next year with Legwand/Grabovski at 3C, either.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

We're not a contender next year

Probably could just leave it at that.

 

[zuckera1]

We're not a "contender" next year with Legwand/Grabovski at 3C, either.

Maybe not but we're in a better position to contend with one of them instead of Miller at 3C.

 

[Raspewtin]

Maybe not but we're in a better position to contend with one of them instead of Miller at 3C.

I wouldn't even say that.

How expensive would they be? Prob 4+ million each. Giving us even LESS wiggle room somehow to improve the roster.

 

[silverfish]

I think we have different definitions of bust. A d-man that played 4 seasons here and scoring above 35 points twice is not a bust. Disappointed, yeah. And he got turned into something of value, which is all you can ask.

HF > Work AINEC

Not getting into a Miller debate, but we should remember he just turned 21. I think he's going to be very good. But that's not the point.

With regards to Skjei I wasn't implying that you thought he should have an immediate impact. Why I did write that though, is that your post implies Skjei is just another long line of first round disappointments. After all, that's why you wrote the post no?

And like someone already said, Miller, McIlrath, and Skjei are all still in the system. Del Zotto and Kreider are NHL players, whereas DZ was a good one for us. If we'd have given up on these players, traded them, or they were making no progress, the 2/9 comment would work better.

Definitely different definitions of a bust, we can end the argument here for sure.

I hope to eat crow on Miller more than anything in the world, truly, just stating my opinion on him.

I included Skjei because I thought it only fair to include all of our first round draft picks, regardless of year drafted and/or situation - just to get a full picture. I believe Skjei will make it 3/9 for us

Again, disagree on DZ being a good player for us. I'm looking for more than 2 good years at the NHL level from a first-round pick, but I do see where you're coming from. I hope in the coming years, that 2/9 grows in a positive direction, despite my negativity towards the number as it stands today.

 

[zuckera1]

I wouldn't even say that.

How expensive would they be? Prob 4+ million each. Giving us even LESS wiggle room somehow to improve the roster.

There's not a lot of wiggle room regardless.

Both of them are more likely to match Richards' production of 51 points this year than Miller.

 

[Trxjw]

Clearly too versatile for the Rangers to seriously implore.

He needed to be a right wing demanding a trade to NYR.

Now all we need is a #1C, PPQB, and 20 goal power-forward to demand trades here as well.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'd love to have a concise and clear cut reason as to why importing top-end talent doesn't work for NYR, but I dont. It just simply doesn't.

How does one explain 3 (formerly) top tier NHL players in Richards, Nash, and St. Louis coming here and ******** the bed? Its unbelievable.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Now all we need is a #1C, PPQB, and 20 goal power-forward to demand trades here as well.

Paul Stastny, Sheldon Souray, Dustin Penner.

#signemup

 

[Bluenote13]

I'd love to have a concise and clear cut reason as to why importing top-end talent doesn't work for NYR, but I dont. It just simply doesn't.

How does one explain 3 (formerly) top tier NHL players in Richards, Nash, and St. Louis coming here and ******** the bed? Its unbelievable.

Because it starts with the GM. Is he a hungry young man on his way somewhere like Neil Smith was in the early 90's, or is our GM living good off past glories from long ago ?

 

[Trxjw]

I'd love to have a concise and clear cut reason as to why importing top-end talent doesn't work for NYR, but I dont. It just simply doesn't.

How does one explain 3 (formerly) top tier NHL players in Richards, Nash, and St. Louis coming here and ******** the bed? Its unbelievable.

Most teams have little luck building their team around players who were someone else's elite talent. I think the last team to do that was Anaheim, but even then, we're talking about generational talents like Pronger, Selanne, and Niedermayer.

 

[OverTheCap]

I'd love to have a concise and clear cut reason as to why importing top-end talent doesn't work for NYR, but I dont. It just simply doesn't.

How does one explain 3 (formerly) top tier NHL players in Richards, Nash, and St. Louis coming here and ******** the bed? Its unbelievable.

It's probably one of those mysteries that will never be solved, but I have a few of my own theories.

(1) Players are coming here for the wrong reasons - big money, living in the city, being close to family, etc. Winning a cup in NY isn't their primary focus. And it doesn't help that these players are often nearing the end of their prime years or past their prime.

(2) There's something different about a bunch of players who are coming up together through the system and forging a bond rather than a bunch of individuals who are coming here from other teams. The players from within the organization develop chemistry and camaraderie over time while the outsiders need time to adjust and acclimate to their teammates. It seems like the roster is always in flux which isn't an ideal environment for anyone.

(3) The players simply don't fit in with the way the roster is constructed - they may be a redundant piece or don't adequately fulfill the need they were sought to address. Sather is looking for the best players, not the right players.

 

[Trxjw]

It's probably one of those mysteries that will never be solved, but I have a few of my own theories.

(1) Players are coming here for the wrong reasons - big money, living in the city, being close to family, etc. Winning a cup in NY isn't their primary focus. And it doesn't help that these players are often nearing the end of their prime years or past their prime.

(2) There's something different about a bunch of players who are coming up together through the system and forging a bond rather than a bunch of individuals who are coming here from other teams. The players from within the organization develop chemistry and camaraderie over time while the outsiders need time to adjust and acclimate to their teammates. It seems like the roster is always in flux which isn't an ideal environment for anyone.

(3) The players simply don't fit in with the way the roster is constructed - they may be a redundant piece or don't adequately fulfill the need they were sought to address. Sather is looking for the best players, not the right players.

Very well said. Agreed on all counts.