Thirty One
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I really hate the logic that leads to: "If the team is bad, that player can't be all that good."
There's lots of reasons a team does well or poorly.
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I really hate the logic that leads to: "If the team is bad, that player can't be all that good."
There's lots of reasons a team does well or poorly.
haveandare
Registered User
Thirty One
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Fitzy
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I really hate the logic that leads to: "If the team is bad, that player can't be all that good."
There's lots of reasons a team does well or poorly.
It's true. But if you look at the justifications for why Staal would improve the NY Rangers, it's largely based on the assumption that having him here would make the players he played with better. That's a big assumption, and one that failed already with Brad Richards and Scott Gomez.
I'd like to have Staal here, but I'm not sure this is the right fit.
The Rangers didn't have a first and second round pick in 2013. They won't have a second round pick in 2014. That pick becomes a first if the Rangers reach the ECF. OK. They don't have a #1 in 2015. All of these trades involving the Staal's or any big player usually require a #1 pick and/or a top prospect and a young roster player or all three of those components. Richards and Carter trades from Philly. Staal went to Carolina for Sutter,8th pick overall(Pouliot)and Dumoulin. The Rangers already mortgaged the future. All of these teams want Stepan. Ron Francis will want Stepan. VAN wanted a top young center(Stepan),top prospect(preferably a forward)and #1 pick for Kesler.
I couldn't agree more.
I've wanted to make moves in the past to get a good team. Because with a good team, a good plan on the ice, a good development system, and a good scouting crew -- things start to come together. We should reap the benefits of that now, not dump all picks.
Emptyvoid
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- Apr 11, 2009
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Unfortunately, I don't think the Rangers are going to get a proven #1 center anytime soon.
They would either need to trade for one that is nearing or above 30 (E. Staal, Spezza, etc) and we would only be gutting our youth and depth to get them. Along with the fact we don't have a good history of big name players coming here and producing.
Similarly, we don't have the assets to trade for young #1s. Take someone like Seguin or Benn for example? The best we could offer is Stepan + Staal and I'm not sure if that would be enough and I'm not sure if we actually come out better out of that trade.
Our best bet, I feel, is two things. Look for young unproven center with high potential (think Burmistrov or Kyle Turris a few years ago) OR stick with what we got down the center position (Stepan, Brassard, JT Miller, Lindberg) and support them with good wingers and a good transition game starting from the back end.
But for god sakes what ever ****ing plan management chooses, they need to stick to it.
They would either need to trade for one that is nearing or above 30 (E. Staal, Spezza, etc) and we would only be gutting our youth and depth to get them. Along with the fact we don't have a good history of big name players coming here and producing.
Similarly, we don't have the assets to trade for young #1s. Take someone like Seguin or Benn for example? The best we could offer is Stepan + Staal and I'm not sure if that would be enough and I'm not sure if we actually come out better out of that trade.
Our best bet, I feel, is two things. Look for young unproven center with high potential (think Burmistrov or Kyle Turris a few years ago) OR stick with what we got down the center position (Stepan, Brassard, JT Miller, Lindberg) and support them with good wingers and a good transition game starting from the back end.
But for god sakes what ever ****ing plan management chooses, they need to stick to it.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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Yeah, have to agree with you on the #1C... We'd have to find a 1C/2C tweener center to work along with Step. If we have 2 Centerman producing 60+ points, we're in fine shape. Similar to Boston with Krejci + Bergeron.
Some thoughts for the roster next year....
I'm with those that want to infuse youth, but please, one youth at a time...
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.000m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Martin St. Louis ($5.625m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($2.900m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m)
Derek Dorsett ($1.633m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.900m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.500m)
John Moore ($1.600m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,215,000; BONUSES: $350,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $6,885,000
I think roster especially solidifies our bottom 6, which I would be happy about. As for the top 6, only minor tweaks would need to be made.
All this essentially does is:
1. give small raises to the entire roster
2. Buyout Brad Richards
3. Replace Brad Richards with JT Miller (which basically gives us the youth we need right now + a $5M+ cap savings
4. replace Stralman with Diaz, placing him on Staal's pairing
5. Not listed, but you could slot Carcillo instead of Dorsett and send Dorsett away for a 3rd round pick.
6. One of Pouliot or Hagelin will need to play their off-wing, which is fine because, see 7...
7. Pouliot and Hagelin are the most replaceable guys on the roster right now (Hagelin more than Poo at the moment, but both are 15 goal, 25-30 point guys). You'd have the option of using one of them for a trade for a right handed right winger...
8. Lastly, with $3-7M available in cap space with this roster, I would be interested in pursuing someone like Matt Moulson, Marian Gaborik, or Thomas Vanek (in that order due to contract demands). They could be acquired for nothing, and I can see someone like Matt Moulson playing well in this system.
9. Not something to really consider right away, but if Haggerty proves to be a solid palyer, you could ship away both Hagelin AND pouliot, pull in a top 6 winger, 2C, and run with that
I agree with most of this, but I dont think Boyle comes back. I think he will make too much money as a UFA, similar to Prust. Also keep in mind that Lindberg, Fast, McIlrath and Allen will be pushing for roster spots too along with JTM. Theres also the long shot chance that Duclair makes it next year. It will be an interesting offseason for sure.
Sather will probably lowball him. I love Zucc and if you go back to the beginning of the season when everyone was trashing him, I was defending him. That said, I would be a bit cautious handing him a big contract after just 1 season. Hopefully Slats locks him up at a steal of a contract like he did with McD.
Emptyvoid
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2009
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Yea I'm just looking around the league for possible offensive defenseman to be had. There are a few options out there, but not a whole lot.
I wonder what it'd take for Kieth Yandle and I wonder how he would look next to Staal. That's a lot of money on our defense though...
Really hope Diaz can be a player for us.
I think McD is just fine. He produces and looking back at some of his goals/assists, hes pretty clutch. Diaz looked really good the other day, hopefully he keeps it up.
Emptyvoid
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2009
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McD is absolutely fantastic, don't get me wrong.
But at most he can only play half the game. I think it's important to have another good puck moving defenseman for at least another 18-20 mins.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
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If Boyle does not come back, then you can just re-sign carcillo for his QO (like just over $1M), and run a 4th line of Carcillo-Moore-Dorsett... but I get a feeling that Boyle MAY take a discount to stick around.... Don't know why, but I think he likes playing for this team. On top of that, is it really worth saving $500k on someone like Boyle? There are not that many Dominic Moore's out there who can play a competent, consistent, 4th line game. Boyle is one of them, and if you can get him for less than $2.1-2.2M, you do it. That's only a $400-500k raise on what he makes right now...
The other issue I have is that you're telling me there will be 5 prospects pushing for spots... The reality is that 1, maybe 2 of them at most, will actually be contenders for roster spots:
- McIlrath needs another season on the wolf pack. Guy needs to be a legitimate, and consistent 2nd pair guy before we give him a shot. It's not worth the risk for someone with that little of experience before we stick him in our stacked D, which on the 3rd pairing (where McIlrath would be) is not worth the inconsistency.
- Lindberg is really, simply, nothing special. I haven;t seen much of him, but nothing about him is striking me as a great player. People here paint him as a 4th line guy... We don't need another 4th line guy, we have a competent 4th line.
- Allen, yes a solid defenseman, but where does he fit? Again, is it worth saving $1M in cap space to stick a guy with next to zero NHL experience into the mix? It sounds good on paper, but on the ice, the product is going to be much different.
- Fast is on fire, but let's hope he CONTINUES to stay on fire. if not, he won't make this roster, he'll be Lindberg's equivalent
As for actual contenders:
- Duclair is a definite possibility... as long as that goal scoring carries nearly seamlessly from the Q to the AHL... If it does, then he's a perfect candidate
- Miller is the only replacement in house for Brad Richards, so if Richards goes, and we decide to go with Stepan/Brassard for the #1C and #2C spots (which I really do not want to do, as Brass is a 40-45 point guy, and we need 60 points out of a #2C), Miller is the cheapest, easiest, and most acquirable option
I know that they all wont make it, but Lindberg found his offensive touch in the SEL and was the league MVP IIRC. He could become a very good 3C. Fast hopefully will become Callahan-esque. Allen can play both sides and hopefully will be a great signing. McIlrath probably needs more time, but he will get a good look in camp. Miller will almost definitely make it. Duclair is still a long shot, hes young and needs to put on some weight. hopefully he surprises.
Lindberg got a very long look in camp this year and Fast made the team. They are legitimate contenders.
Dactyl you are almost right, Lindberg was the play off MVP a couple of years ago when his team won.
But as the team looks now, where does he fit in even after Brad is bought out? No spots at center available unless the management decide not to resign Brassard but that ain't gonna happen unless the find an upgrade somehow somewhere or let both Boyle and Moore go which would be silly since they both are doing a great job right now and can't be that expensive to birng back. All I can see is on the wing at the fourth line, anyone knows how he does on the wing or has he any experience on the position?
But as the team looks now, where does he fit in even after Brad is bought out? No spots at center available unless the management decide not to resign Brassard but that ain't gonna happen unless the find an upgrade somehow somewhere or let both Boyle and Moore go which would be silly since they both are doing a great job right now and can't be that expensive to birng back. All I can see is on the wing at the fourth line, anyone knows how he does on the wing or has he any experience on the position?
If Boyle walks for more money, Lindberg could be 4C. Hes a face off beast (which we couldve used tonight). Carcillo/Dorsett-Lindberg-Mooreis a good 4th line IMO. The scouting report on Lindberg last year was Boyle with more offensive potential. If he grows into a good 2 way player and can handle 3rd line minutes Brassard could be moved to wing or traded. Im just thinking of who could make the team next year. Im not convinced of Boyle and Carcillo being here after this year. we will see.
haveandare
Registered User
I think you are way too pessimistic of Lindberg. He would probably be the best faceoff guy on the team, and he has moved from his top of a #3C to SHOULD be a 3C. And Fast should be able to be as good as Hagelin if not better from the RW.
With the speculation that Jim Rutherford will be retiring in Carolina; things down there could be shaken up a bit. Instead of Marc going that way, maybe Eric and Jordan will be coming this way.
Inferno
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TheTakedown
Puck is Life
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It can work if Carolina is willing to hang onto 10-15% of salary for Eric Staal. I don't know if we have the assets to get Eric though, unless Management in Carolina is really willing to bend over backwards for the Staal family. Now, if Jordan wants to come here, and Caroline wants to let him go, it may not be a terrible idea... but he's a 3C, and quite frankly, Brass has the chemistry working for him, which I think in itself, cuts off any possibility of Jordan ever having a roster spot here at this point in time
I can, however, nearly guarantee you that Marc Staal is NOT going anywhere
Once again, too much youth, too many "possibilities", too many "maybe this guy can try that side", or "switch this player to this position", and "he'll get a good look"...
I promise you, out of all of those players, 1, maybe 2, make the roster next year... The only one forseeably ready for ANY NHL ACTION is JT Miller, and that's only because he's pretty much developed as much as possible, on top of the fact that he'll be placed in a position to excel, as a 3C...
Meanwhile, you're expecting Fast to come in, and immediately play better than Hagelin, by being GIVEN a spot on the roster, same with Lindberg being GIVEN Boyle's spot... Do you really think these guys are going to work in this system with zero nhl experience?
Fast only made the team because Callahan and Hagelin were injured... As soon as those two returned, Fast was immediately sent down, and has not been pulled up since. There's no reason to be this high on him just yet...
Lastly, you cannot, I repeat, cannot, at this stage in this teams condition, considering what's locked up (D corps, goaltended), take blind shots at prospects that "might" work out. Look at the oilers... It does not work...
If Fast wants a spot, Fast can work his ass off every single ****ing day, until he's beastly better than Hagelin, Pouliot, or Zucc...
Miller is next up for promotion, and that hangs in the balance of whether or not Richards is bought out.
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