Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXII: To Smurf or not to Smurf

[Made Dan]

Take a look at Staal in the playoffs, then come back.

The last time I would've had the chance to do that, Zherdev led this team in points.

 

[pld459666]

Brassard - 3.2
Klein - 2.9
McIlrath
Kristo

For E. Staal

Buy out Richards and the above trade adds just 2.1 million.

Just a thought

 

[pld459666]

It's tough to win when you have no help. Columbus has been a **** show forever. Its just recently theyve been a decent team in a very weak conference.

I refuse to persecute him for being on a crappy team.

I'm not sure I know of many 300+ goal scorers under the age of 30 who are "supplementary"

I just feel like when nash is on his game, he's up there with the elite of the elite.

Ive never felt like that when watching Staal on his game.

*shrugs*

you're not going to convince me.

I'm not going to convince you (all)

Let's just agree to disagree.

I'm done here.

don't disagree with the post in total, but the bolded part doesn't happen NEARLY enough which in my opinion will keep him from ever being discussed as an elite player.

 

[Championship*]

Brassard - 3.2
Klein - 2.9
McIlrath
Kristo

For E. Staal

Buy out Richards and the above trade adds just 2.1 million.

Just a thought

That's not gonna be enough I don't think. They will want Miller.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The last time I would've had the chance to do that, Zherdev led this team in points.

He's still has two long, successful playoff runs, a Stanley Cup, a 100+ point season, and a lot more than Nash has ever accomplished, while playing a more important position and being a more well rounded player.

 

[Tawnos]

He's still has two long, successful playoff runs, a Stanley Cup, a 100+ point season, and a lot more than Nash has ever accomplished, while playing a more important position and being a more well rounded player.

Take out the 100 point season. Nash has a Rocket Richard trophy, which does count for something, you know.

I know that Staal was the best player, in terms of offense, on that 2005-06 team, but that group had savvy coming out of their collective wazoo. Brind'Amour, Weight, Recchi, Whitney, Stillman, Kaberle, Ward, Hedican, Wesley. All 31 or older. Staal was great, but that was a great collection of wily vets. 12 SCF appearances among the vets on that team. While he was the leading scorer, most people think of that as Brind'Amour's team.

Now, the year where they were the Cardiac Canes? Yeah, Brinds, Whitney and Kaberle were still around. But that was Eric's team.

The problem is that the failures are starting to outweigh the successes with him. It puts it all off-color. In Nash's case, there aren't any successes to outweigh.

 

[Emptyvoid]

I still maintain that even if they're nearly identical in terms of their inconsistencies/offense/inability to lead, then E. Staal is worth the extra 400k caphit simply because he plays center.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

now some fans want Eric Staal.. let's put together a team of older overpaid players, yea that has worked before. how can Ranger fans be so ****ing dumb?? it cant be because their GM is dumb, can it?? lets trade for Eric Staal, sign Dan Boyle and sign Ray Whitney to a 4 year contract...

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

now some fans want Eric Staal.. let's put together a team of older overpaid players, yea that has worked before. how can Ranger fans be so ****ing dumb?? it cant be because their GM is dumb, can it?? lets trade for Eric Staal, sign Dan Boyle and sign Ray Whitney to a 4 year contract...

I don't think you should be calling anyone else dumb, champ.

 

[TheTakedown]

now some fans want Eric Staal.. let's put together a team of older overpaid players, yea that has worked before. how can Ranger fans be so ****ing dumb?? it cant be because their GM is dumb, can it?? lets trade for Eric Staal, sign Dan Boyle and sign Ray Whitney to a 4 year contract...

overpaid? sure, but he sure can do his job as a #1C... as I said earlier, you have some leverage with negotiations with him since he would probably consider joining Marc in NYR... Furthermore the guy has potent offensive skill that can take him far on this team (which isn't a bad team in all honesty), and lastly, this is New York... it's the lap of luxury (that could work out for the better or worse, you never know)...

He's not old. Many of the people on HF are advocating for signing Stastny, who is a whopping 1 year younger than Eric Staal..

 

[Made Dan]

He's still has two long, successful playoff runs, a Stanley Cup, a 100+ point season, and a lot more than Nash has ever accomplished, while playing a more important position and being a more well rounded player.

He's certainly the more accomplished player, but I wouldn't say it attests to his current ability. I think they're pretty comparable players at the moment. Obviously Eric plays the more important position, though.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

He's certainly the more accomplished player, but I wouldn't say it attests to his current ability. I think they're pretty comparable players at the moment. Obviously Eric plays the more important position, though.

They're definitely comparable, but arguing that Nash is a "much much much better player" than Staal is asinine.

 

[Emptyvoid]

I don't think many people think that a trade for E. Staal is going to happen, we were merely discussing the merits of the player.

Carolina is trying to cut salary, doesn't make sense to take on Nash's contract in that context. And we aren't in a position to give up cheap assets for E. Staal either.

But regarding the players themselves, I really don't understand how it's an argument. I think at worst that the two are roughly equal. E. Staal plays a more valuable position however. That alone makes him more worthwhile than Nash.

 

[Emptyvoid]

I'm curious what it would take to pry Spezza from Ottawa....

Edit: Wow, he's 30 years old already.

 

[stan the caddy]

I'd rather Carolina have Marc than the Rangers trade a bunch of assets for Eric.

 

[Emptyvoid]

Take out the 100 point season. Nash has a Rocket Richard trophy, which does count for something, you know.

I know that Staal was the best player, in terms of offense, on that 2005-06 team, but that group had savvy coming out of their collective wazoo. Brind'Amour, Weight, Recchi, Whitney, Stillman, Kaberle, Ward, Hedican, Wesley. All 31 or older. Staal was great, but that was a great collection of wily vets. 12 SCF appearances among the vets on that team. While he was the leading scorer, most people think of that as Brind'Amour's team.


Now, the year where they were the Cardiac Canes? Yeah, Brinds, Whitney and Kaberle were still around. But that was Eric's team.

The problem is that the failures are starting to outweigh the successes with him. It puts it all off-color. In Nash's case, there aren't any successes to outweigh.

Wait a second, why is it ok to take out E. Staal's 100 pt season (in a very point inflated year, definitely) but take Rick Nash's rocket richard in full consideration? He had 41 goals and 16! assists.

When was the last time a rocket richard winner (lets not forget, he co-won that trophy with Kovy that year) had that low of an assist total? I feel the 100 pt season, inflated totals and all, is more impressive than his 56 pt Rocket Richard season.

Regarding the Canes.... it seems to me that defense and recently healthy goaltending are major obstacles for them to overcome.

 

[BBKers]

Not advocating the trade - just looking at cap implications
Say we send Brassard, Dorsett, Lindberg and a 3rd for E Staal and a 5th/6th?
Is this even close (although it offers quite a bit of relief space for Carolina) in value needed?
We would wind up with something like:

FORWARDS
Mats Zuccarello ($3.300m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Brian Boyle ($2.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.200m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.200m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Conor Allen or Dylan McIllrath (~$0.925m)
John Moore ($1.600m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Justin Falk or Rafael Diaz (~$1.200m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000
CAP PAYROLL: $68,761,667
BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,338,333

COULD THIS TEAM CONTEND?

 

[stan the caddy]

Not advocating the trade - just looking at cap implications
Say we send Brassard, Dorsett, Lindberg and a 3rd for E Staal and a 5th/6th?
Is this even close (although it offers quite a bit of relief space for Carolina) in value needed?
We would wind up with something like:

FORWARDS
Mats Zuccarello ($3.300m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Brian Boyle ($2.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.200m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.200m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Conor Allen or Dylan McIllrath (~$0.925m)
John Moore ($1.600m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Justin Falk or Rafael Diaz (~$1.200m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000
CAP PAYROLL: $68,761,667
BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,338,333

COULD THIS TEAM CONTEND?

Brassard's decent but you're not giving much there. Dorsett is fighting Carcillo for starts. I like Lindberg as a prospect but there are 100+ Lindberg's in farm systems around the league.

Staal would most likely disappoint in NY but you still have to pay to get him here.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Dorsett, Lindberg and a mid-round pick wouldn't even be in the conversation of things Carolina would want for him. We were the only team in the bidding for Nash and MSL; CBJ and TBL were able to negotiate fair-ish deals. Elite talent is expensive.

 

[RangerBoy]

It will be interesting to see what Sather/Gorton do with this team. The Rangers have some young players in the AHL who aren't big players. Those players will be pushing for roster spots next season. Fast has 15 goals in 42 games. 13 of those 15 goals have been scored since the New Year. He is a right-handed shot. The Rangers need more righties. AV brought that up on Saturday with Diaz in the lineup. The PP needs more righty shots. Not sure how management feels about Kristo. Another righty. The Rangers will need to sign him to a 2 year contract this summer or they could lose him for nothing with a one year contract. Group 6. 25 years old,3 years pro and less than 80 NHL games played. Haggerty is a righty. Miller and Lindberg at center. Both of them should in the mix. The Hawks 3rd and 4th line centers are Shaw and Kruger. The Rangers already have smaller wingers in MSL and Zuccarello. Hagelin is not a big player. They need more size. With Nash and MSL on the roster,where does Zuccarello fit? The Rangers have huge investments in Nash and MSL. Both of them are right wingers. The Rangers have Zuccarello playing the left wing because they have Nash and MSL on the right side. You could have made the argument for Zuccarello the being 2nd line RW with Callahan on the team. Nash and MSL will eat up most of the minutes on the right side. Sather is the highest paid GM in the NHL. Let him figure it out.

 

[Fitzy]

If Miller isn't in the NHL next year we are officially blocking his development. He's ready for this level.

Haggerty won't be hurt by starting in the AHL next year. I haven't seen enough of Fast or Lindberg this year to make a good assessment on them.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

If Miller isn't in the NHL next year we are officially blocking his development. He's ready for this level.

Haggerty won't be hurt by starting in the AHL next year. I haven't seen enough of Fast or Lindberg this year to make a good assessment on them.

Sather should have called up Lindberg to see if he can play in the NHL, and trade Boyle for picks or depth. Lindberg played in the SEL, i think he should have gotten a few games by now..

 

[TheTakedown]

Sather should have called up Lindberg to see if he can play in the NHL, and trade Boyle for picks or depth. Lindberg played in the SEL, i think he should have gotten a few games by now..

He got preseason, and wasn't very impressive. 3rd/4th tweener guy. :/

 

[haveandare]

Staal is an insane idea at this point.

This team cannot, I repeat, CANNOT afford to trade anymore packages of futures for "now" players. They're already seriously flirting with disaster looking down the line. Trading a few prospects for Staal would guarantee that this team is an absolute mess in the not-too-distant future.

The only way that the Staal rumblings effect the Rangers is by making it seem less likely that Marc is drawn to Carolina.

 

[Tawnos]

Wait a second, why is it ok to take out E. Staal's 100 pt season (in a very point inflated year, definitely) but take Rick Nash's rocket richard in full consideration? He had 41 goals and 16! assists.

When was the last time a rocket richard winner (lets not forget, he co-won that trophy with Kovy that year) had that low of an assist total? I feel the 100 pt season, inflated totals and all, is more impressive than his 56 pt Rocket Richard season.

Regarding the Canes.... it seems to me that defense and recently healthy goaltending are major obstacles for them to overcome.

You misunderstood. I meant that you can't say that Staal's 100 point season is an accomplishment that Rick Nash just can't match. Take it out because it doesn't make Staal the better player, to me they even out. And that's not even mentioning that Staal did it in an aberration of a season, in terms of goals for leaguewide, while Nash's came in the last season of the dead puck era. Staal's also came on a team good enough to win the Stanley Cup. Nash's came on a team bad enough that, even with his low assist total, he still led the team in scoring. 4th worst regular season team for Nash vs the 4th best regular season team for Staal.

As far as health and defense, definitely concerns. Last year they got bitten by the injury bug pretty hard all over the roster. Cam Ward also hasn't been completely healthy in either of the last two seasons, even when he was playing, which is why they shut him down completely for a while this year. As far as defense... for some odd reason, Rutherford seems obsessed with bringing in mediocre PMD-types, like Corvo, Gragnani, Pothier, Ian White, T. Kaberle (at that point in his career), and Liles. And these were mostly teams that already had Pitkanen (when he was healthy) and McBain on them. Hell, Sanguinetti even got playing time. He finally made a good move to send out McBain for Sekera, but I don't think Liles was the right target for the Gleason trade. I also don't think Muller's system particularly fits the roster he's got. All sorts of problems there.