Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXII: To Smurf or not to Smurf

[Cassano]

Fact: Nash can play LW. Dispute it all you want. You're wrong. He's better on the Right. And we do have MZA and MSL, compared to Kreider-Hagelin-Poo on the left. I would suggest the same thing. But I wouldn't say something foolish like Nash can't play LW when he has.

Accept it and move on.

So if Nash can easily play LW, why hasn't he been employed in that position? Especially since the Rangers had Callahan and Gaborik on RW followed by MSL and Zuccarello. It just seems logical to move him to the left the past year and a half, so why haven't they?

 

[haohmaru]

So if Nash can easily play LW, why hasn't he been employed in that position? Especially since the Rangers had Callahan and Gaborik on RW followed by MSL and Zuccarello. It just seems logical to move him to the left the past year and a half, so why haven't they?

Because he's better on RW then LW? Does this need to be explained? It doesn't mean he can't play LW if he has to.

 

[Cassano]

Because he's better on RW then LW? Does this need to be explained? It doesn't mean he can't play LW if he has to.

But he hasn't done so in the past 3 years and on teams that are weak on the left side. 3 different coaches haven't experimented with Nash on LW, so it's a moot point.

That's why the Rangers should've traded for a LWer, because Nash can't or is more effectively useful on RW. Meaning he won't play LW ever.

 

[Cassano]

Oh man, imagine if the Rangers waited it out a bit and traded a 2nd a prospect for Vanek, a LWer, instead of parlaying a set of core players to divisional rivals for Nash, a RWer. Hindsight is 20/20, of course.

Edit: On second hand, hopefully AV can experiment with this.

 

[aufheben]

What do you guys think we could get for Dorsett at the draft? We need to start recouping draft picks. Maybe the Flyers will want him, his lack of a brain will fit in perfectly.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

What do you guys think we could get for Dorsett at the draft? We need to start recouping draft picks. Maybe the Flyers will want him, his lack of a brain will fit in perfectly.

I mean, yeah Dorsett is extraneous.

 

[TheTakedown]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($1.750m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.500m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Brian Boyle ($2.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.300m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Justin Falk ($1.024m) /

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,077,917; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,022,083

- Diaz Replaces Stralman
- 4th line stays intact. I'm OK with overpaying Moore and Boyle by $2M total to keep them together. Carcillo is hardly going to be wanted by other teams, so there's no reason why you can't sign him to his QO
-

Just some capgeek crap I was playing around with. I like the idea of replacing Pouliot with Hagelin and then signing Vanek... I'd prefer to keep Richards though, that's just me. I don't see Stastny making it to FA

 

[poeman]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($1.750m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.500m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Brian Boyle ($2.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.300m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Justin Falk ($1.024m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,077,917; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,022,083

Just some capgeek crap I was playing around with. I like the idea of replacing Pouliot with Hagelin and then signing Vanek... I'd prefer to keep Richards though, that's just me. I don't see Stastny making it to FA

No moves this offseason?

 

[silverfish]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($1.750m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.500m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Brian Boyle ($2.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.300m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Justin Falk ($1.024m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,077,917; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,022,083

Just some capgeek crap I was playing around with. I like the idea of replacing Pouliot with Hagelin and then signing Vanek... I'd prefer to keep Richards though, that's just me. I don't see Stastny making it to FA

Richards won't be a Ranger next year. There is no reason not to buy him out, especially considering cap restructure penalties. He's gone. No matter what.

Well, at least a smart GM would buy him out not matter what. Glen, on the other hand.....

 

[poeman]

Richards won't be a Ranger next year. There is no reason not to buy him out, especially considering cap restructure penalties. He's gone. No matter what.

Well, at least a smart GM would buy him out not matter what. Glen, on the other hand.....

explain the cap restructure penalties to me...

Why cant we cut Richards 2 years from now?

We are in a predicament now with MSL here.

 

[TheTakedown]

No moves this offseason?

Not many, but since you asked, I could see this... Granted, not even sure if this would fit under the cap though!

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Paul Stastny ($6.900m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($1.750m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Thomas Vanek ($6.500m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.000m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Brian Boyle ($1.900m) / Dominic Moore ($1.300m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,681,667; BONUSES: $350,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $418,333

 

[TheTakedown]

explain the cap restructure penalties to me...

Why cant we cut Richards 2 years from now?

We are in a predicament now with MSL here.

basically, every year that he plays and we benefit from a cap hit that is lower than the average salary pay out per year, we pay a penalty based on that... Richards total Salary was $60M/9Y, which comes out to $6.67M/year, BUT, RIchards Salary drop off is tremendous after the first 6 years. Since that is a problem, we see that we get hit with a penalty because of the last few years. Notice that the first 2 years he receives $18M in bonuses. That's what messes this up:

2011-12 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $10,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2012-13 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $8,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2013-14 $9,000,000 $9,000,000 $0 $2,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2014-15 $8,500,000 $8,500,000 $0 $2,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2015-16 $8,500,000 $8,500,000 $0 $2,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2016-17 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 $0 $4,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2017-18 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2018-19 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2019-20 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 $6,666,667

Now, what one had said (and I elaborated) was that perhaps Richards could form, some sort of Gentlemans agreement with Slats, something like:

"I'll play as long as I am healthy for NYR, since my buddy MSL is here. Once I am deemed worthless to this team, we'll terminate my contract, since in the last 3 years of my contract, I'll only be making $1M each year which I can easily surpass if you cut me, and I get resigned as a 3rd/4th line center for several more Million $"

 

[silverfish]

explain the cap restructure penalties to me...

Why cant we cut Richards 2 years from now?

We are in a predicament now with MSL here.

I wish I could. I used to know a lot more about all the hockey rules and the CBA but that information has seemingly been replaced in my brain by things for work

Something about penalizing teams that used long-term contracts with bogus salaries in the last few years of the contract for cap circumvention. These teams will be penalized if the player retires before his contract expires. The Devils were penalized for Kovalchuk, but not by much because he retired so early.

We need to buy out Richards with the compliance buyout this off-season, so his buyout does not count against the cap.

Capgeek recapture retirement penalty calculator
Capgeek buyout calculator

If we buyout Richards when MSL's contract expires, according to capgeek, we will suffer a pretty monumental cap hit.

2015-16: -$600,000
2016-17: $900,000
2017-18: $6,900,000
2018-19: $6,900,000
2019-20: $6,900,000
2020-21: $1,233,333
2021-22: $1,233,333
2022-23: $1,233,333
2023-24: $1,233,333
2024-25: $1,233,333

Hope this helps at least a little bit. To save the Rangers from themselves and cap hell, we need to compliance buyout Richards.

 

[goalsequalvictory]

basically, every year that he plays and we benefit from a cap hit that is lower than the average salary pay out per year, we pay a penalty based on that... Richards total Salary was $60M/9Y, which comes out to $6.67M/year, BUT, RIchards Salary drop off is tremendous after the first 6 years. Since that is a problem, we see that we get hit with a penalty because of the last few years. Notice that the first 2 years he receives $18M in bonuses. That's what messes this up:

2011-12 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $10,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2012-13 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $8,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2013-14 $9,000,000 $9,000,000 $0 $2,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2014-15 $8,500,000 $8,500,000 $0 $2,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2015-16 $8,500,000 $8,500,000 $0 $2,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2016-17 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 $0 $4,000,000 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2017-18 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2018-19 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 $6,666,667
2019-20 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 $6,666,667

Now, what one had said (and I elaborated) was that perhaps Richards could form, some sort of Gentlemans agreement with Slats, something like:

"I'll play as long as I am healthy for NYR, since my buddy MSL is here. Once I am deemed worthless to this team, we'll terminate my contract, since in the last 3 years of my contract, I'll only be making $1M each year which I can easily surpass if you cut me, and I get resigned as a 3rd/4th line center for several more Million $"

I'd bet the NHL wouldn't be too happy with that gentleman's agreement... I'd be shocked if that wouldn't get charged a recapture penalty.

 

[poeman]

I wish I could. I used to know a lot more about all the hockey rules and the CBA but that information has seemingly been replaced in my brain by things for work

Something about penalizing teams that used long-term contracts with bogus salaries in the last few years of the contract for cap circumvention. These teams will be penalized if the player retires before his contract expires. The Devils were penalized for Kovalchuk, but not by much because he retired so early.

We need to buy out Richards with the compliance buyout this off-season, so his buyout does not count against the cap.

Capgeek recapture retirement penalty calculator
Capgeek buyout calculator

If we buyout Richards when MSL's contract expires, according to capgeek, we will suffer a pretty monumental cap hit.

2015-16: -$600,000
2016-17: $900,000
2017-18: $6,900,000
2018-19: $6,900,000
2019-20: $6,900,000
2020-21: $1,233,333
2021-22: $1,233,333
2022-23: $1,233,333
2023-24: $1,233,333
2024-25: $1,233,333

Hope this helps at least a little bit. To save the Rangers from themselves and cap hell, we need to compliance buyout Richards.

DAMN that is one rough cap hit during those 3 years...I hate long term contracts, unless they are young and first liners

 

[Todd Harvey]

explain the cap restructure penalties to me...

Why cant we cut Richards 2 years from now?

We are in a predicament now with MSL here.

Rangers cannot buy Richards out two years from now, best of my knowledge;

The new CBA gave teams a two-year option on buyouts, last year and this one coming.

Forgive me if this was discussed already, I get confused jumping thread-to-thread.

And yeah, the BR-MSL connection does seemingly pose a problem;
not for me, LOL, Id 100% exorcise on Richards.
But they asked Sather yesterday and he said he wished the microphone was a crystal ball, then refused to answer.

 

[TheTakedown]

I'd bet the NHL wouldn't be too happy with that gentleman's agreement... I'd be shocked if that wouldn't get charged a recapture penalty.

Could it be done if it's a mutual agreement though? I can't see why the player and the club can't agree to say "we're cutting ties with you"... If the player agrees, then it's not circumvention, since the player approved it, right>?

 

[goalsequalvictory]

Could it be done if it's a mutual agreement though? I can't see why the player and the club can't agree to say "we're cutting ties with you"... If the player agrees, then it's not circumvention, since the player approved it, right>?

But since the team still got the cap savings compared to the actual salary, you would think that there would still be a penalty? If the actual salary = actual cap hit, it would work, but then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place since he would just retire

 

[TheTakedown]

But since the team still got the cap savings compared to the actual salary, you would think that there would still be a penalty? If the actual salary = actual cap hit, it would work, but then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place since he would just retire

true, but say he's not "retiring", he's "terminating" his contract...

I get what you're saying, there probably would be a penalty... but it's a feasible option...

Richards could also fail to report the last 3 years, at which point the rangers retain full rights to cut him, correct?

 

[stan the caddy]

Sather's options at the deadline

I'm curious to see what the fans would have done in that situation. Keep in mind the value for a rental was very low at the deadline.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Why are these the only options?

There was value in keeping Callahan for a playoff run.

There was value in having more time to negotiate with Callahan. Maybe the fact that he wasn't traded makes him re-evaluate his worth to other teams.

There was value in keeping him for a playoff run and then potentially trying to get a pick from a team who would want that exclusive negotiating window leading up to free agency starting.

 

[stan the caddy]

Why are these the only options?

There was value in keeping Callahan for a playoff run.

There was value in having more time to negotiate with Callahan. Maybe the fact that he wasn't traded makes him re-evaluate his worth to other teams.

There was value in keeping him for a playoff run and then potentially trying to get a pick from a team who would want that exclusive negotiating window leading up to free agency starting.

Should have included keeping him around for the playoffs. Don't know if I can edit that.

 

[GAGLine]

I voted for trade him for small package, but that's not really a fair choice as we don't know what the other offer was on the table. The poll makes it sound like we would be trading him for scraps.

No matter how you slice it, we would have been better off long term by trading for younger players and/or picks, rather than trading away picks for a player who may not be here for more than 1.25 years. We wouldn't have been better off THIS year, but it can't always be about this year, especially when THIS year we are nothing more than a bubble playoff team.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

does Sather watch the playoffs? if Rangers advance, how are they gonna match up against the Blues, Ducks, Hawks, Kings, all bigger teams than the Rangers.


guys like Bickell, Shaw, Bollig, Perry, Backes, Oshie, Nolan, Clifford, King, Getzlaf would have a field day hitting the Rangers and only Carcillo Boyle Dorsett Klein would do something about it and they are not even that intimidating..


i guess the Rangers management thinks that St.Louis and Zuccarello can go through the legs of the larger forwards.. the lack of size and grit is gonna hurt this team in the playoffs, when team push back, can you imagine Richards or Nash sticking up for themselves

 

[Jabroni]

Why are these the only options?

There was value in keeping Callahan for a playoff run.

There was value in having more time to negotiate with Callahan. Maybe the fact that he wasn't traded makes him re-evaluate his worth to other teams.

There was value in keeping him for a playoff run and then potentially trying to get a pick from a team who would want that exclusive negotiating window leading up to free agency starting.

The only thing I can say I would not have re-signed Callahan for what he was asking. Not sure about choosing between the other 2.