Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXVIII: All the #1C's!

[Cassano]

Would rather trade him for Hemsky than give him 6mil per for 6 yrs.

 

[jskramer83]

He's talking about cap hit at the time of signing, and he's right. Zetterberg's $6M was based on a 56.8M cap aka 10.7% of the cap. He also was signed to a 12 year deal. If we took just the first 6 years of his deal the cap hit would be $7.6M or 13.4% of the cap.

Callahan's cap hit of say, 6.3M would be 8.9% of next years 71M cap.

It's apples and oranges to just say 6M = 6M.

It is a very good point, and yes inflation even applies to NHL Contracts. But the issue really becomes, that that same inflation number will need to be applied to Stepan's Next Contract, Kreider's next contract, Zuccarello's next contract, all of which are going to be deserving of more then Callahan's deal.

I know its un-fair to ask him to take less as this will be likely his last contract, but he is just very replaceable and this is a contract you give to someone that is not replaceable.

 

[Tawnos]

I understand what he's saying and maybe Zetterberg was a bad example, due to the tacked on years, but how about the Sedins, or the Chicago boys?

How about Dustin Brown? This contract, regardless of any which way you look at it, is in line with players who are significantly better then Callahan.

And how anyone can warrant that we should give callahan nearly 1/10th of our available cap space, is beyond me.

...

He can ask for what he wants, it's a business, I get that, but he's not worth a dime over 5 for this organization and even at that, I'd prefer the cap space to retain and upgrade our roster. He's a declining player that wants a retirement contract. The Rangers need to stop giving those out.

Sedins signed their contracts this year. Kane and Toews, regardless of RFA status, could have held out and didn't, instead they signed decent term contracts at more then fair cap hits, same goes for Tavares. I understand the difference between RFA and UFA, but a player of that caliber can still force their hand and STILL took UFA years off the table, as did McD.

I see the market out there for UFA's, I understand it, I saw what Clarkson and Clowe got. Does that mean they are worth it? Comparing albotross mistakes is as relevent as comparing Hossa's 8 years at 1 million bucks to Callahan.

Part of the problem is that Clarkson's contract is viewed as an overpayment. In years, it definitely is. In dollars, it really isn't.

The Sedins signed a short term contract that kicks in at 34. Different situation than a players first stab at UFA at 28/29. In their first UFA contract, they made 27% more than Callahan would @ $6m, adjusted for inflation.

Dustin Brown's deal is a good comparable, but again, if you really want apples to apples, you have to look at what he's making in the same term as Cally is discussing. Brown makes an average of $6.5m over the first 6 years. These players have constantly been compared to each other, usually with Callahan being considered the lesser of the two. $500k-$1m less would seem about right and $6m falls within that.

Importance to the team is entirely meaningless, since it completely ignores where the leverage lies in a negotiation.

 

[Ardi44]

Part of the problem is that Clarkson's contract is viewed as an overpayment. In years, it definitely is. In dollars, it really isn't.

The Sedins signed a short term contract at 34. Different situation than a players first stab at UFA at 28/29.

Dustin Brown's deal is a good comparable, but again, if you really want apples to apples, you have to look at what he's making in the same term as Cally is discussing. Brown makes an average of $6.5m over the first 6 years. These players have constantly been compared to each other, usually with Callahan being considered the lesser of the two. $500k-$1m less would seem about right and $6m falls within that.

Importance to the team is entirely meaningless, since it completely ignores where the leverage lies in a negotiation.

Very objective, non knee-jerk reaction to all of this. Something this board sorely lacks.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

It is a very good point, and yes inflation even applies to NHL Contracts. But the issue really becomes, that that same inflation number will need to be applied to Stepan's Next Contract, Kreider's next contract, Zuccarello's next contract, all of which are going to be deserving of more then Callahan's deal.

I know its un-fair to ask him to take less as this will be likely his last contract, but he is just very replaceable and this is a contract you give to someone that is not replaceable.

Hey, I'm not in favor of giving it to him. And you are spot on with the other players.

But it's also ridiculous that some are saying, well Pat Kane only makes $6M!

 

[Blueblood 2]

Trade deadline is also Ash Wednesday. Cally and Sather will soon be nailed to the cross and only Bartlett will rise again!

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Clarkson isn't overpaid in dollars, just years? Right. Do you honestly believe such BS? He's massively overpaid, in dollars. No one would care if he was signed 7 years at 4M.

 

[Trxjw]

C'mon, who couldn't see this coming? Hey, Sather gave all those awful deals to other players, so it's cool for him to give an awful one to the Captain, right?

Rangers are linked to Hemsky every year. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the contingency plan in the highly unlikely event that Callahan gets dealt. Get some young pieces for Cally, and fill the gap with a cheap rental who has some upside. Just like the Sharks did last year with Clowe.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

C'mon, who couldn't see this coming? Hey, Sather gave all those awful deals to other players, so it's cool for him to give an awful one to the Captain, right?

Rangers are linked to Hemsky every year. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the contingency plan in the highly unlikely event that Callahan gets dealt. Get some young pieces for Cally, and fill the gap with a cheap rental who has some upside. Just like the Sharks did last year with Clowe.

Could totally see it.

Unbelievable that the GM could have watched the last 2 games and the plan would be to get even softer.

Yet, totally believable in this Ranger world we live in.

 

[Tawnos]

Clarkson isn't overpaid in dollars, just years? Right. Do you honestly believe such BS? He's massively overpaid, in dollars. No one would care if he was signed 7 years at 4M.

Well, I wouldn't have signed him to those dollars because I was skeptical of his ability to replicate the same success in a different situation. But from a purely numbers point-of-view, a 25-30 goal scorer with grit should get $5m on the open market.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

C'mon, who couldn't see this coming? Hey, Sather gave all those awful deals to other players, so it's cool for him to give an awful one to the Captain, right?

Rangers are linked to Hemsky every year. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the contingency plan in the highly unlikely event that Callahan gets dealt. Get some young pieces for Cally, and fill the gap with a cheap rental who has some upside. Just like the Sharks did last year with Clowe.

No need with Miller & Fast in the system, but if they do that and come out ahead in net young pieces, then it is the far, far, far, far, far, far lesser of two evils.

 

[AHB*]

Part of the problem is that Clarkson's contract is viewed as an overpayment. In years, it definitely is. In dollars, it really isn't.

The Sedins signed a short term contract that kicks in at 34. Different situation than a players first stab at UFA at 28/29. In their first UFA contract, they made 27% more than Callahan would @ $6m, adjusted for inflation.

Dustin Brown's deal is a good comparable, but again, if you really want apples to apples, you have to look at what he's making in the same term as Cally is discussing. Brown makes an average of $6.5m over the first 6 years. These players have constantly been compared to each other, usually with Callahan being considered the lesser of the two. $500k-$1m less would seem about right and $6m falls within that.

Importance to the team is entirely meaningless, since it completely ignores where the leverage lies in a negotiation.

But they made more money because they are better players. They are also STILL Better players and are now goign to be making, potentially less then Callahan, under the same exact circumstances.

I don't value a player based on his past contracts, I value them based on it moving forward. Just because Callahan didn't get a prior contract that was equal to the Sedins doesn't change the value.

I'd rather sign a Sedin at 34, for 6 years at 6 million, then sign Callahan for that. (Hypothetical, Obviously).


Maybe the Kane/Toews aren't the best examples, but I'm just extremely bothered by the fact that his cap hit will fall in line with players of that caliber. Just because of the circumstances, in my opinion, it doesn't make it any more acceptable.

The pre-recapture conracts, I understand and validly accept your point. I'm just pissed and probably spewing things that don't make as much sense as they should.

I disagree on the Clarkson dollars point.

As for this whole situation, Callahan has been one of my favorite Rangers for years, it pains me to look at him in this light and it's so unfortunate that we have to feel this way about a guy who has given it his all. But this team will continue into mediocrity by giving him 6 million per over 6.

 

[AHB*]

Clarkson only had one 20+ goal season, I don't know that I'd consider him a 25-30 goal scorer.

That's like saying Brian Boyle is a 20 goal scorer.

 

[Fongule]

Trade him already, for once sather stand your ground!

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Toronto is already regretting the Clarkson deal. LA will certainly regret the Brown deal (if they don't already). I don't want the Rangers joining that party.

At least Brown has the leverage that he captained a team to a championship.

We've lost with Callahan, we can lose without him.

 

[Tawnos]

But they made more money because they are better players. They are also STILL Better players and are now goign to be making, potentially less then Callahan, under the same exact circumstances.

I don't value a player based on his past contracts, I value them based on it moving forward. Just because Callahan didn't get a prior contract that was equal to the Sedins doesn't change the value.

I'd rather sign a Sedin at 34, for 6 years at 6 million, then sign Callahan for that. (Hypotehtical, obviously, but they could have chosen to hit FA and probably got 8 Mil each).

...

But this team will continue into mediocrity by giving him 6 million per over 6.

First of all, the Sedins new deal pays them $7m per. Second of all, if you want to ignore all of that kind of stuff, fine. Just be aware that it's out of step with how NHL GMs and agents do it.

As for the last line... the hyperbole is killing me. $6m is not albatross status. I want to be clear about something. I'm not advocating the Rangers signing Cally for $6m. I think that money would be better spent elsewhere, preferably on a LW, given the way the team is currently constituted. My issue is resigning Callahan at all. But this idea that him at $6m is somehow crippling is just a little bit silly.

Clarkson only had one 20+ goal season, I don't know that I'd consider him a 25-30 goal scorer.

That's like saying Brian Boyle is a 20 goal scorer.

I'm prorating last year, which GMs around the league certainly did too.

 

[NYR Sting]

But this team will continue into mediocrity by giving him 6 million per over 6.

This is such a fallacy. Yes, $6 million per season is an overpayment, and yes, he probably won't be very good by the end of that contract, but this is still such total nonsense. Callahan's contract will have practically no effect on whether or not the Rangers will remain mired in mediocrity.

The Rangers continued inability to draft and develop elite young talent, particularly playmaking centers, will be their downfall. This team isn't solving any of its biggest problems through free agency.

But if you really want to go down this route, the Girardi contract will have more of a negative impact. You have an elite goaltender making a ton of money. You have an incredibly deep and strong defensive 6. You have good defensive forwards up and down the roster. You're all talking about what a role player Callahan is. Girardi is the definition of role player. He is slow and immobile, he provides very little offensively, and he excels primarily at blocking shots and clearing the front of the net. Call me crazy, but he's more than expendable with what Lundqvist is making and the strength of their defense. And how about $7.8 million for Rick Nash? 29 points in 45 games, while Callahan has 25 points in 45 games this season.
The former currently makes almost twice as much as the latter.

Again, however, the Rangers stint in mediocrity won't because of these contracts. It'll be because they are never willing to do what is necessary to make the ultimate improvement to their roster.

 

[pld459666]

3rd liner making 6 per is making my stomach churn. The fact that this is going to happen for 5-6 years makes it worse.

Zuccs is watching this VERY closely.

Rangers front office, the whole lot of them, are complete idiots.

 

[Blueblood 2]

This could be Sather's best orchestration ever. He has worked himself into a position where he can let his Captain walk for a bag of pucks and most fans would agree. Absolutely remarkable to believe this, just a month ago. What a magician!

 

[RGY]

A penny over $6 million is too much because $6 million is too much as it is. He should be getting $5.5

 

[Callagraves]

I seriously don't know what people think we're trading a UFA Callahan for.

We're not getting MSL. It's a pipe dream. Get over it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This is such a fallacy. Yes, $6 million per season is an overpayment, and yes, he probably won't be very good by the end of that contract, but this is still such total nonsense. Callahan's contract will have practically no effect on whether or not the Rangers will remain mired in mediocrity.

The Rangers continued inability to draft and develop elite young talent, particularly playmaking centers, will be their downfall. This team isn't solving any of its biggest problems through free agency.

But if you really want to go down this route, the Girardi contract will have more of a negative impact. You have an elite goaltender making a ton of money. You have an incredibly deep and strong defensive 6. You have good defensive forwards up and down the roster. You're all talking about what a role player Callahan is. Girardi is the definition of role player. He is slow and immobile, he provides very little offensively, and he excels primarily at blocking shots and clearing the front of the net. Call me crazy, but he's more than expendable with what Lundqvist is making and the strength of their defense. And how about $7.8 million for Rick Nash? 29 points in 45 games, while Callahan has 25 points in 45 games this season.
The former currently makes almost twice as much as the latter.

Again, however, the Rangers stint in mediocrity won't because of these contracts. It'll be because they are never willing to do what is necessary to make the ultimate improvement to their roster.

Agreed. Im not a fan of the terms, but lets not act like this contract alone will hamstring the Rangers from being a contender for years to come.

Sather will do that with a series of other moves.

 

[AHB*]

This is such a fallacy. Yes, $6 million per season is an overpayment, and yes, he probably won't be very good by the end of that contract, but this is still such total nonsense. Callahan's contract will have practically no effect on whether or not the Rangers will remain mired in mediocrity.

The Rangers continued inability to draft and develop elite young talent, particularly playmaking centers, will be their downfall. This team isn't solving any of its biggest problems through free agency.

But if you really want to go down this route, the Girardi contract will have more of a negative impact. You have an elite goaltender making a ton of money. You have an incredibly deep and strong defensive 6. You have good defensive forwards up and down the roster. You're all talking about what a role player Callahan is. Girardi is the definition of role player. He is slow and immobile, he provides very little offensively, and he excels primarily at blocking shots and clearing the front of the net. Call me crazy, but he's more than expendable with what Lundqvist is making and the strength of their defense. And how about $7.8 million for Rick Nash? 29 points in 45 games, while Callahan has 25 points in 45 games this season.
The former currently makes almost twice as much as the latter.

Again, however, the Rangers stint in mediocrity won't because of these contracts. It'll be because they are never willing to do what is necessary to make the ultimate improvement to their roster.

Really, because the Rangers stint in mediocrity has been due to these idiotic contracts since the cap came into effect. Callahan is another in this long list, only difference is, he is homegrown.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Ugh, he's going to re-sign. FML.

We needed to make a deal w/STL before they moved pieces for the Buffalo trade. Now, we're stuck with Callahan at what is likely to be $6.25ish for 6 years.

I don't want to hate Callahan, but his play has gone off a cliff the past 2 years. He no longer hits like he used to, and turns the puck over all the time these days.

We're about to pay at least $6M for a glorified meat-shield.

If Callahan gets this contract, he gets the same treatment as Lundqvist. No slack and increased scrutiny. You want your overpayment? Fine, but be prepared to be torn to shreds when you underperform, Captain Cash-in-hand.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Really, because the Rangers stint in mediocrity has been due to these idiotic contracts since the cap came into effect. Callahan is another in this long list, only difference is, he is homegrown.

Thats an awfully simplistic view.

The constant mediocrity is due to the dependency of having to hand out these big contracts to every player that hits the market.

The reality of why this team is mired in mediocrity is actually much deeper and scarier than big money mistakes.