Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Trade Deadline edition

[Captain Mountain]

It's called having a guy with a 130+ IQ score, a man who has excelled in higher education and a prestigious law firm making important decisions vs having a guy with a sub 100 IQ in Bergevin, a high school dropout, run a multi-faceted operation.

I think that the management group is too homogeneous (all career hockey guys, not enough data, business, legal people). That said, all the IQ talk seems very r/iamverysmart.

Bergevin's IQ isn't as big an issue as that he doesn't appear to know what he or his team don't know and hasn't bothered to bring in people that do know that.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

You would never get that return for either player. TBL would fleece Bergevin AGAIN on a Weber deal and you'd probably end up with a 1st round pick only while having to take in 15+% of his salary for the next 7 years.

Realistically, I would trade Weber to Toronto for a 1st round pick and Nylander, who can play C. A team like Toronto is way more desperate for a Weber than TBL. That or trade him to Dallas for Klingberg and a 1st.

St-Louis wouldn't trade Thompson and Kyrou isn't as good as Robert Thomas. I would go for Thomas + a 1st for Patches.

Plekanec needs to be gone. Whether it's a 2nd or two 3rds, doesn't matter. He has to go.

I think a good GM would get that for Weber sure. Whether you paired him with Hedman, or kept them separate, you’d be basically creating a dynasty for about 4-5 years with a ton of talent still in the pipeline and prospect pool while only giving up one roster player that’s easily replaced. But as we share similar viewpoints of Bargain Bin’s abilities I doubt he’d make that deal.

As far as Kyrou goes, I think he’s honestly going to be a better player than Thomas down the road and could also be a Center or a very high end winger. Blues seem higher on Thomas anyway so that’s why I wanted Kyrou. Throw in a big winger with talent and a 1st and I think it’s more than fair value.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Drouin has played over 200 games in the NHL and has a pt/game average of 0.57. How that is anything more than a 2nd line LW at best is beyond me. Sergachev is a first year rookie D-man who has more points than the guy Bergevin traded for to be our offensive star. A first year D-man with 28 points in 50 games.

Last year, he had a pace of 60 pts.
This year, he's had several injuries + playing center for the 1st time in the nhl + playing on one of the worst teams in the league.
On the hand, Sergachev has been heavily sheltered + he's been paired with Stralman + he's racking up points by playing with Kucherov and Stamkos + he's playing on the best team in the league.

If you think their situation are even close to being the same, I don't know what to say...


Also you're talking about Drouin vs Sergachev, whereas the argument was about sergachev being "a future norris winner".
He's got some high end potential (just like Drouin), but to call him a future norris winner right now is absurd.
He got scratched the last few games because he was terrible defensively.

If you think he's a future norris winner just because of his offense, then he will have a ton of competition.
Just by looking at players near his age: Ghostibehere, Rielly, Klingberg, Werenski, Provorov, Hanafin, McAvoy, etc.
And we're not even talking about the current top D's like Karlsson, Hedman, etc.

He wasn't a superstar playing top line minutes with Kucherov last year, couldn't produce with Stamkos the year before, has a bad attitude and while I wouldn't doubt his production would be better on the wing/he has immense talent I do doubt his will to be a consistent producer. He reminds me of Alex Tanguay.

You realize the only time he played with kucherov was on the powerplay?
Drouin played on the 3rd line with Killorn, Filppula and Boyle.

 

[Andrei79]

I think that the management group is too homogeneous (all career hockey guys, not enough data, business, legal people). That said, all the IQ talk seems very r/iamverysmart.

Bergevin's IQ isn't as big an issue as that he doesn't appear to know what he or his team don't know and hasn't bothered to bring in people that do know that.

IQ measures IQ, not intelligence nor any of the other habits or abilities that predict success (however you define it), much less hockey related success.

It's rather funny to think Brisebois is somehow in the top 2.5% of the population though. Higher actually, according to that poster.

 

[voyageur]

You look at a team like Ottawa that didn't lose much from the team that was one win away from the Cup, really just Methot, and where they are now, and you understand how fine the line is between top and bottom.

Health is always a factor.

The Canadiens changed a lot this year. An abrupt change isn't a healthy way to build a winner. Retooling the core is.

For me it starts with Pacioretty. You have a forward who is not versatile. And that hampers the team a bit.

Trading him for a C/RW like Kempe out of L.A would help.

Having players that can play multiple positions is what most coaches want. We lost our top C here in Winnipeg, and our captain just stepped in, team did not lose a beat.

I would keep Plekanec unless you fill his absence with somebody who can do the job. Say trade him to one team and add a Pageau/Z. Smith on the other end. But only if he would re-sign at half his salary for a year, giving the GM cap space, with Carey taking in $4 m more, to obtain a top centre. That's the commitment I would ask from him if he wants to play his 1000th game in Montreal.

But with Kempe alone you could keep the development going forward.

Say:

Galchenyuk-Drouin-Sherbak
Lehkonen-Kempe-Gallagher (C)
Hudon-Plekanec (Rep.)-Byron
Deslauriers-And competition for reserve spots behind Danault-Shaw

The team still has structure to build on. And develop. No developing centres coming next year. So the cap space is important.

If Weber comes back it makes Jordie Benn expendable in my eyes, and maybe Bergevin can find a good replacement in the shuffle.

If both Bergevin and Julien get fired, there are at least building blocks to work with.

 

[sampollock]

NHL insider Bob McKenzie appeared on TSN690 and isn't even sure there's a strong one.
“Short answer is I don’t know,” admitted McKenzie. “We haven’t seen any rentals move here....... And I guess sometimes it’s just the basic law of supply and demand. But it sure seems like there are a lot of potential rentals out there, especially scoring wingers more so than checking or depth centers. I mean, Edmonton has got Mark Letestu, who could be in the same sort of conversation as a guy like Tomas Plekanec.

 

[417]

NHL insider Bob McKenzie appeared on TSN690 and isn't even sure there's a strong one.
“Short answer is I don’t know,” admitted McKenzie. “We haven’t seen any rentals move here....... And I guess sometimes it’s just the basic law of supply and demand. But it sure seems like there are a lot of potential rentals out there, especially scoring wingers more so than checking or depth centers. I mean, Edmonton has got Mark Letestu, who could be in the same sort of conversation as a guy like Tomas Plekanec.

Anyone thinking the Habs are going to get a 1st or 2nd rounder for Plekanec.

Think again

 

[417]

You look at a team like Ottawa that didn't lose much from the team that was one win away from the Cup, really just Methot, and where they are now, and you understand how fine the line is between top and bottom.

Health is always a factor.

The Canadiens changed a lot this year. An abrupt change isn't a healthy way to build a winner. Retooling the core is.

For me it starts with Pacioretty. You have a forward who is not versatile. And that hampers the team a bit.

Trading him for a C/RW like Kempe out of L.A would help.

Having players that can play multiple positions is what most coaches want. We lost our top C here in Winnipeg, and our captain just stepped in, team did not lose a beat.

I would keep Plekanec unless you fill his absence with somebody who can do the job. Say trade him to one team and add a Pageau/Z. Smith on the other end. But only if he would re-sign at half his salary for a year, giving the GM cap space, with Carey taking in $4 m more, to obtain a top centre. That's the commitment I would ask from him if he wants to play his 1000th game in Montreal.

But with Kempe alone you could keep the development going forward.

Say:

Galchenyuk-Drouin-Sherbak
Lehkonen-Kempe-Gallagher (C)
Hudon-Plekanec (Rep.)-Byron
Deslauriers-And competition for reserve spots behind Danault-Shaw

The team still has structure to build on. And develop. No developing centres coming next year. So the cap space is important.

If Weber comes back it makes Jordie Benn expendable in my eyes, and maybe Bergevin can find a good replacement in the shuffle.

If both Bergevin and Julien get fired, there are at least building blocks to work with.

People have been saying this about him.for 5yrs...

We've had him this entire time, what has that gotten the Habs?

Why is it so important for some folks that he's "replaced"?

Is Philip Danault not capable of doing the same job with less defense but more offense?

Why is this idea that we need a Plekanec clone before we deal Plekanec, always pop up?

Again...we got folks here ready to give away Pacioretty or Weber.

But Plekanec, we have to wait until a clone has been developed??? What are you afraid of happening if he's not replaced?

That the Habs miss the playoffs?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Would you trade Petry to the Lightning for futures? Looks like they are interested in a Right handed shooting defenseman. Not sure if I would and if I did, not sure what I would ask for.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Anyone thinking the Habs are going to get a 1st or 2nd rounder for Plekanec.

Think again

I think we can get a 2nd. It's the trade deadline after all.

 

[Andrei79]

Anyone thinking the Habs are going to get a 1st or 2nd rounder for Plekanec.

Think again

I have to admit, I'm having a hard time putting the right value on him. I think he's well liked around the league and I could see Pittsburgh, Sheahan or not, pay a decent price to get him.

I think he's going to get us a mid-low 2nd.

 

[417]

I have to admit, I'm having a hard time putting the right value on him. I think he's well liked around the league and I could see Pittsburgh, Sheahan or not, pay a decent price to get him.

I think he's going to get us a mid-low 2nd.

I don't think he has near the same reputation outside of Montreal, as he has within it.

I really don't think teams have that big of an appetite for a purely one way defensive player.

Of course, I could be totally wrong, not to long ago the Kings traded a conditional 5th to the Habs for Torrey Mitchell

The Pens traded a 3rd + Scott Wilson for Riley Sheehan + 5th

I certainly think Plekanec is better than both Sheehan/Mitchell...

 

[Adriatic]

You look at a team like Ottawa that didn't lose much from the team that was one win away from the Cup, really just Methot, and where they are now, and you understand how fine the line is between top and bottom.

Health is always a factor.

Tampa is a good example. Last year they don't even make the playoffs, this year they are world beaters. The line is so fine in the nhl between success and failure that's why for the most part teams are always either 1 or 2 moves away from the top or the bottom. If done right, retooling can be done fairly quickly. Last year Habs sign Radulov they finish first in division, this year they don't resign Radulov and Markov and it seems they can barely compete.

 

[Andrei79]

I don't think he has near the same reputation outside of Montreal, as he has within it.

I really don't think teams have that big of an appetite for a purely one way defensive player.

Who would be a comparable ?

Even at 35, he's more skilled and productive than Marcus Kruger. As an almost purely defensive center, that would be who's the closest I can think of.

Kruger was let go by the Knights for a 5th, but Plekanec is a better player, doesn't have another year on the cap and I don't see any center available for the deadline. Can't see him not getting at least a 3rd.

 

[417]

Who would be a comparable ?

Even at 35, he's more skilled and productive than Marcus Kruger. As an almost purely defensive center, that would be who's the closest I can think of.

Kruger was let go by the Knights for a 5th, but Plekanec is a better player, doesn't have another year on the cap and I don't see any center available for the deadline. Can't see him not getting at least a 3rd.

Thing is...The Hurricanes use Kruger like the Habs should be using Plekanec.

Kruger averages 10:50 per game, on their 4th line, he's at 56% faceoff

Plekanec averages 16:21 per game, essentially playing top 6 minutes at 52% faceoff

A team interested in Plekanec, isn't going to be using him for 16:21 per game...his icetime is going to resemble closer to what Kruger plays (10:50 TOI/G).

It's really hard to pinpoint Plekanec's worth because his usage is completely out of wack in Montreal...ultimately, I guess it's about 2nd or 3rd round pick.

 

[WhatWhat]

On Dallas, there's this Radulov guy who's pretty good .

Dallas could use Patches, but they could also use Weber.

As far as Dallas (and not Texas) roster players go: Esa Lindell would be my target. He'd fill a huge hole on LD, then Faksa. Any of these two would be great. Honka I've barely noticed when I watched the stars, but he was a good AHL player and had some hype.

There's not much in their prospect pool either. Heiskanen, obviously, then there's a big drop off with Robertson and Hintz. Nothing too exciting. Hintz is the guy I guess they would target on the Texas roster.

If he does trade with the Stars, I just hope MB doesn't settle for Shore.

Just a friendly Stars fan jumping so some of you dont get too excited going down the wrong path. The bolded names are simply unatainable from Dallas. Lindell is our clear cut 2nd best defenseman and is playing like a legit 2D and Faksa is our second best center. If Dallas were to make a move for Patches there is simply no way either of those guys are part of the deal because they are both young and play positions that are much more important than what Patches would play

 

[yianik]

Just a friendly Stars fan jumping so some of you dont get too excited going down the wrong path. The bolded names are simply unatainable from Dallas. Lindell is our clear cut 2nd best defenseman and is playing like a legit 2D and Faksa is our second best center. If Dallas were to make a move for Patches there is simply no way either of those guys are part of the deal because they are both young and play positions that are much more important than what Patches would play

Regards to Rads.

 

[theghost1]

Drouin has played over 200 games in the NHL and has a pt/game average of 0.57. How that is anything more than a 2nd line LW at best is beyond me. Sergachev is a first year rookie D-man who has more points than the guy Bergevin traded for to be our offensive star. A first year D-man with 28 points in 50 games.

We don't know what Drouin is yet look how long it took for players who are now stars like Voracek,Wheeler,to establish themselves look at Drouin's former Halifax teammate MacKinnon he is a superstar now the last 3 seasons he was just mediocre at best.

 

[Sorinth]

Last year, he had a pace of 60 pts.
This year, he's had several injuries + playing center for the 1st time in the nhl + playing on one of the worst teams in the league.
On the hand, Sergachev has been heavily sheltered + he's been paired with Stralman + he's racking up points by playing with Kucherov and Stamkos + he's playing on the best team in the league.

If you think their situation are even close to being the same, I don't know what to say...

It's funny you seem to dimiss Sergachev's production because it's mostly coming from Kucherov and Stamkos, yet that is exactly how Drouin got his 60 point pace last season. He racked up points on the PP in large part because of Kucherov and Stamkos.

 

[The Great Weal]

I can't see Dallas as a fit.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Anyone thinking the Habs are going to get a 1st or 2nd rounder for Plekanec.

Think again

We could easily get a 2nd for him IMO
A 1st I really doubt unless it's a conditional pick and that team goes on to win the Cup

 

[sampollock]

STL still to me seems the home for maxy, they have the youth to send back

 

[Andrei79]

Thing is...The Hurricanes use Kruger like the Habs should be using Plekanec.

Kruger averages 10:50 per game, on their 4th line, he's at 56% faceoff

Plekanec averages 16:21 per game, essentially playing top 6 minutes at 52% faceoff

A team interested in Plekanec, isn't going to be using him for 16:21 per game...his icetime is going to resemble closer to what Kruger plays (10:50 TOI/G).

It's really hard to pinpoint Plekanec's worth because his usage is completely out of wack in Montreal...ultimately, I guess it's about 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Good points, I agree.

 

[EdAVSfan]

We don't know what Drouin is yet look how long it took for players who are now stars like Voracek,Wheeler,to establish themselves look at Drouin's former Halifax teammate MacKinnon he is a superstar now the last 3 seasons he was just mediocre at best.

That’s not accurate at all w/r/t Mackinnon.

 

[Andrei79]

Just a friendly Stars fan jumping so some of you dont get too excited going down the wrong path. The bolded names are simply unatainable from Dallas. Lindell is our clear cut 2nd best defenseman and is playing like a legit 2D and Faksa is our second best center. If Dallas were to make a move for Patches there is simply no way either of those guys are part of the deal because they are both young and play positions that are much more important than what Patches would play

No doubt, getting them would be steals and not likely to happen.