Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Trade Deadline edition

[Roke]

Honka isn't of much interest to me, he has never really lit the AHL on fire like top D prospects do .

I don't think you'll get a great C prospect back for 50% retained Pacioretty so I'm hoping for something like Pacioretty to Colorado for their '18 and '19 1sts and Connor Timmins.

Having a crappy defence is how rebuilds in Buffalo and Vancouver got really screwed up (and the pre-McDavid Rebuild I and Rebuild II in Edmonton). Hope to find forwards with your early draft assets but jumpstart the D rebuilding now.

I would love to find a way to get Ramsus Andersson and Kyllington out of Calgary in a non-Pacioretty trade but even if they really love Paul Byron despite waiving him a few years ago and desperately want out from under Brouwer's contract I don't think I see a realistic way of doing it.

 

[groovejuice]

If sergachev is a future norris winner, then Drouin is a future art ross winner...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hintz
- Age 21
- Left winger, 6'-3", 205 lbs.
- 25 pts in 46 AHL games (McCarron had 19 pts in 32 games as a 21 year old)

Honka
- Age 22
- Right handed shooting D, 5'-11", 185 lbs
- 0.54 pts/game in the AHL (201 games)

These guys represent the "warm NHL ready bodies" and I would be ok with that but not as a top prospect. If the Starts don't want to trade Heiskanen, I would not trade Patch to them.

 

[le_sean]

Honka isn't of much interest to me, he has never really lit the AHL on fire like top D prospects do .

I don't think you'll get a great C prospect back for 50% retained Pacioretty so I'm hoping for something like Pacioretty to Colorado for their '18 and '19 1sts and Connor Timmins.

Having a crappy defence is how rebuilds in Buffalo and Vancouver got really screwed up (and the pre-McDavid Rebuild I and Rebuild II in Edmonton). Hope to find forwards with your early draft assets but jumpstart the D rebuilding now.

Actually Honka has had very good seasons in the AHL. Not sure what Timmins has done to be better than him, Honka was just as good in the WHL.

 

[le_sean]

Hintz
- Age 21
- Left winger, 6'-3", 205 lbs.
- 25 pts in 46 AHL games (McCarron had 19 pts in 32 games as a 21 year old)

Honka
- Age 22
- Right handed shooting D, 5'-11", 185 lbs
- 0.54 pts/game in the AHL (201 games)

These guys represent the "warm NHL ready bodies" and I would be ok with that but not as a top prospect. If the Starts don't want to trade Heiskanen, I would not trade Patch to them.

It’s disengenious to compare Hintz to McCarron. He’s a very good prospect. Possibly another Pacioretty with his complete game. He was great in the Finnish league before coming over.

 

[Roke]

Actually Honka has had very good seasons in the AHL. Not sure what Timmins has done to be better than him, Honka was just as good in the WHL.

He really hasn't. Sure, he's piled up the points, but he's never had a big effect on driving play (click through to the see the whole thread):

 

[Runner77]

To St Louis Blues: Max Pacioretty

To Montreal Canadiens: Jordan Kyrou, Tage Thompson, 2018 1st round pick

Blues acquire the Habs Captain and add him to a deep roster for a playoff run this year and next year on a very favourable contract. Habs get a prospect that oozes talent in Kyrou, a big forward with skill in Thompson and a first round pick.

We don't have too many assets like Pacioretty to trade in an attempt to land that elusive top 6C.

Wondering how much of distance there is between Kyrou and Thomas and whether we shouldn't try to go for Thomas even if it means paying more.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s disengenious to compare Hintz to McCarron. Hintz is tied for 1st in goals on his AHL team with 19. Tied with a 31 year old. They both have more than double the goals of 2nd on the team. He’s a very good prospect.

Not saying he is not a good prospect but I would expect a return to be higher. Hintz could easly stall in development and turn into McCarron even if you see him better at age 21 than what McCarron was last year.

I consider Hintz a warm NHL ready body but not a top prospect. No way I trade Patch for B type prospects. That is a very bad move IMO. Habs already have too many of these types of prospects.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

There was a time when Honka was absolutely considered a top prospect and he's still young enough to where he could still make it. He's never had more than a cup of coffee with the main team for whatever reason, even though his AHL stats are decent. I guess the overall game never quite materialized in his case . Points in themselves don't mean much if the rest isn't there. We could do better for Max Pac in any case.

 

[le_sean]

He really hasn't. Sure, he's piled up the points, but he's never had a big effect on driving play (click through to the see the whole thread):

Joe Morrow is a star on the Habs though

Thanks for the info

 

[Habs Halifax]

We don't have too many assets like Pacioretty to trade in an attempt to land that elusive top 6C.

Wondering how much of distance there is between Kyrou and Thomas and whether we shouldn't try to go for Thomas even if it means paying more.

I would target Thomas and/or Kyrou. Blues would need to cough up one of them if I am trading Patch to them. Especially when the 1st would be a 2019 instead of a 2018. I would prefer Thomas as he looks like a real solid middle 2 center. Poehling and Thomas would be our best two center prospects in decades!

 

[Roke]

Joe Morrow is a star on the Habs though

Thanks for the info

Using goal-based stats is pretty damn crude but there's not decent public data from the AHL so it's pretty much all we've got. P.K. Subban absolutely torched the league when he was down there as a 20 year-old. I would probably like the idea of Honka a lot if I hadn't seen Dellow tweet and write about his poor, non-boxcar stat, performances.

Your point about Timmins having comparable WHL stats to Honka makes sense and Timmins may flame out like Honka probably has but you're getting a lottery ticket that maybe his game will grow and develop in a way Honka's hasn't.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Honka isn't of much interest to me, he has never really lit the AHL on fire like top D prospects do .

I don't think you'll get a great C prospect back for 50% retained Pacioretty so I'm hoping for something like Pacioretty to Colorado for their '18 and '19 1sts and Connor Timmins.

Having a crappy defence is how rebuilds in Buffalo and Vancouver got really screwed up (and the pre-McDavid Rebuild I and Rebuild II in Edmonton). Hope to find forwards with your early draft assets but jumpstart the D rebuilding now.

I would love to find a way to get Ramsus Andersson and Kyllington out of Calgary in a non-Pacioretty trade but even if they really love Paul Byron despite waiving him a few years ago and desperately want out from under Brouwer's contract I don't think I see a realistic way of doing it.

At this point, we’re barely a playoff team. Doubt Sakic moves potential lottery picks.

From what Sakic insinuated when Patrick Roy bailed was that they were no longer going to be trading value for rentals.

As for Timmins, with his crazy rise this year, it’s highly more likely the avs look to move Barrie in the offseason or later. I don’t want that, but it’s probably more likely than moving Timmins.

 

[le_sean]

Using goal-based stats is pretty damn crude but there's not decent public data from the AHL so it's pretty much all we've got. P.K. Subban absolutely torched the league when he was down there as a 20 year-old.

Your point about Timmins having comparable WHL stats to Honka makes sense and Timmins may flame out like Honka probably has but you're getting a lottery ticket that maybe his game will grow and develop in a way Honka's hasn't.

I loved Timmins in the WJC. He almost looks like he’s clumsy but has complete control and fantastic instincts. I worry about trading Max for a package that has a RD as the centrepiece. It’s the last of the Habs needs. Not sure if the Avs have anything else. I doubt they give Jost.

 

[Roke]

I loved Timmins in the WJC. He almost looks like he’s clumsy but has complete control and fantastic instincts. I worry about trading Max for a package that has a RD as the centrepiece. Ta the last of the Habs needs. Not sure if the Avs have anything else. I doubt they give Jost.

I see the draft picks as the centrepieces, even if I'd expect them to be in the middle of the first round. With the position the Habs are in there needs to be a rebuild, so taking less value overall just to find one centre doesn't make much sense to me.

With Weber and Petry's age (I'd hope to trade both by June), the holes on LD, Price's age and likely decline if you can't get out of that contract - basically the lack of elite talent up-and-down the lineup that will be good when the Habs' next contending window is open - you need prospects with good upside at all positions.

Holding out for a less valuable centre prospect would just be more Sergachev-for-Drouin style shorttermism. Now if you can get a 1st and a guy with great upside like a Thomas, Vilardi then yeah, you go for that, but with the supply of LWs on the market and teams loving their own guys because of the endowment effect I don't think you'll land a top guy like that.

 

[Andrei79]

We don't have too many assets like Pacioretty to trade in an attempt to land that elusive top 6C.

Wondering how much of distance there is between Kyrou and Thomas and whether we shouldn't try to go for Thomas even if it means paying more.

I like both, I'd be happy either way. I'm a big fan of Kyrou.

 

[jackeymoon]

If sergachev is a future norris winner, then Drouin is a future art ross winner...

Drouin has played over 200 games in the NHL and has a pt/game average of 0.57. How that is anything more than a 2nd line LW at best is beyond me. Sergachev is a first year rookie D-man who has more points than the guy Bergevin traded for to be our offensive star. A first year D-man with 28 points in 50 games.

 

[jackeymoon]

It can't be a total coincidence that while Brisebois was in charge of the Habs farm team, the org. signed undrafted Q players (Desharnais, Desjardins) and since he's been in Tampa, they've been doing the same (Marchessault, Gourde).

It's called having a guy with a 130+ IQ score, a man who has excelled in higher education and a prestigious law firm making important decisions vs having a guy with a sub 100 IQ in Bergevin, a high school dropout, run a multi-faceted operation.

 

[webersshot]

Drouin has played over 200 games in the NHL and has a pt/game average of 0.57. How that is anything more than a 2nd line LW at best is beyond me. Sergachev is a first year rookie D-man who has more points than the guy Bergevin traded for to be our offensive star. A first year D-man with 28 points in 50 games.

Hey sergachev is great, but if you cant appreciate the talent that drouin possesses and recognize what a different siutation both of those players are in right now than theres not much more I can say. Put him with a centre and back on the wing where he belongs and everybody will understand the superstar that is jonathan drouin.

 

[Habs100]

If the price for either Kane or Hoffman ends up being a 2nd round pick plus a prospect that we're not high on (like McCarron), I'd trade for them. If this were the price, it would mean their respective values would be at an all time low. We could sell higher in a year or two and in the meantime they'd be a good replacement for Pacioretty.

 

[jackeymoon]

Trades for the rebuild I would attempt:

Trade 1:

To Tampa Bay Lightning: Shea Weber

To Montreal Canadiens: Dan Girardi, Brett Howden, Cal Foote, 2018 1st round pick, and 2019 third round pick.

Lighting get a stud defenseman that instantly make them cup favorites and gives them a top right hand shot defenseman. Habs eat Girardi’s cap hit and contract for a year, and get a top young Center prospect with size and skill in Howden, a solid defense right defenseman prospect in Foote, and a first round pick in a deep draft.

Trade 2:

To St Louis Blues: Max Pacioretty

To Montreal Canadiens: Jordan Kyrou, Tage Thompson, 2018 1st round pick

Blues acquire the Habs Captain and add him to a deep roster for a playoff run this year and next year on a very favourable contract. Habs get a prospect that oozes talent in Kyrou, a big forward with skill in Thompson and a first round pick.

Trade 3: Thomas Plekanec to whichever team will pay a 2nd round pick and possibly more.

Habs would then have top prospects in all areas in the system - Howden, Poehling and possibly Kyrou as centers. Thompson on the wing. Foote on defense with Juulsen. Along with 3 first round picks in the 2018 draft, and 4 second round picks as well, with a ton of cap space to make deals or take on bad contracts for picks while the team rebuilds.

You would never get that return for either player. TBL would fleece Bergevin AGAIN on a Weber deal and you'd probably end up with a 1st round pick only while having to take in 15+% of his salary for the next 7 years.

Realistically, I would trade Weber to Toronto for a 1st round pick and Nylander, who can play C. A team like Toronto is way more desperate for a Weber than TBL. That or trade him to Dallas for Klingberg and a 1st.

St-Louis wouldn't trade Thompson and Kyrou isn't as good as Robert Thomas. I would go for Thomas + a 1st for Patches.

Plekanec needs to be gone. Whether it's a 2nd or two 3rds, doesn't matter. He has to go.

 

[jackeymoon]

Hey sergachev is great, but if you cant appreciate the talent that drouin possesses and recognize what a different siutation both of those players are in right now than theres not much more I can say. Put him with a centre and back on the wing where he belongs and everybody will understand the superstar that is jonathan drouin.

He wasn't a superstar playing top line minutes with Kucherov last year, couldn't produce with Stamkos the year before, has a bad attitude and while I wouldn't doubt his production would be better on the wing/he has immense talent I do doubt his will to be a consistent producer. He reminds me of Alex Tanguay.

 

[webersshot]

It's called having a guy with a 130+ IQ score, a man who has excelled in higher education and a prestigious law firm making important decisions vs having a guy with a sub 100 IQ in Bergevin, a high school dropout, run a multi-faceted operation.

My Iq was 150 when I was 13. Give me the job! give it! lol

 

[Captain Mountain]

I see the draft picks as the centrepieces, even if I'd expect them to be in the middle of the first round. With the position the Habs are in there needs to be a rebuild, so taking less value overall just to find one centre doesn't make much sense to me.

With Weber and Petry's age (I'd hope to trade both by June), the holes on LD, Price's age and likely decline if you can't get out of that contract - basically the lack of elite talent up-and-down the lineup that will be good when the Habs' next contending window is open - you need prospects with good upside at all positions.

Holding out for a less valuable centre prospect would just be more Sergachev-for-Drouin style shorttermism. Now if you can get a 1st and a guy with great upside like a Thomas, Vilardi then yeah, you go for that, but with the supply of LWs on the market and teams loving their own guys because of the endowment effect I don't think you'll land a top guy like that.

It really depends what kind of market exists for the Habs players, but I wouldn't be opposed to a scorched earth rebuild so long as the organization can optimize the value of their trade assets.

There isn't a quick, clear path for the Habs to contend beyond "get Tavares, draft Dahlin, trade Alzner, Shaw, etc. with no retention for positive assets AND somehow bring in a quality #2C and another good top-4 PMD.

If the goal is to win a cup, the current core can't do it and the team doesn't have a window to bring in core pieces that can beyond getting really, really lucky.

 

[Andrei79]

Didn't know all the gifted people either worked for TB or posted here.