Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Trade Deadline edition

[sampollock]

Saad would be a good addition, but habs need to get a centre 1st and foremost

 

[Habs Halifax]

Few things to note:
1. This is an asking price. A lot of asking prices start high as it begins the discussion and the eventual trade ends up being less than what the selling gm was asking for, just something to look out for.
2. This depends on how you define a "top prospect". For example some people may only view the top 15 prospects (whoever they may be in their opinion) as "top prospects" where as others may view the top 50 prospects as "top prospects"
3. The third piece is likely something small like a minor pick or something with little value

To answer your question. If it was the right prospect coming back for Pacioretty (a center would most likely have to do it no shock) then yes I would still do said prospect and a 1st for PacMan.

Lucic return the 13th pick and Jones (who was traded for another 1st.. 30th pick) as a pending UFA for one whole season. Trading Patch and giving the other team an additional playoff run means we should be getting more than the Lucic return IMO. If the Blues called and offered me Thomas and a 2019 1st (they have no 2018 1st), I would definitely ask for another piece and I would target a 2020 2nd or something like that. Thomas is a great prospect but we need as many shots at getting another hit on prospects as there is no guarantees on Thomas.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I fail to see how we could get more at a draft than at the trade deadline when teams are deciding whether to take a run at a cup or not, but that's just me. Max has 2 years left on his sweetheart contract (including this year); and that's a valuable thing imo. Teams that are true contenders are going to have trouble fitting a legit sniper in their lineup but Max's salary makes it intriguing. It would also push those pretender teams into the mix. The more people that are interested the better our return should be.

BUT if we don't get a good enough return - a young C, a 1st round pick, and a top prospect - then I would do as you suggest and trade him at the draft.

But I still think his value for this playoff run + another for a legit contending team would be what I try to sell to the other GM.

Lucic return the 13th pick and Jones who was then flipped for the 30th pick. That was for Lucic for one whole year and then UFA. Not saying we get this return for sure on draft day but you ask me and I answered. Patch for a playoff run and another full season with the shot at re-signing him is a significant add for a cup contender. We need to be careful with the return we get or we keep him.

 

[417]

It's silly to dumb it down like this. It always depends on who the prospect is and how high that first round pick is. Don't play dumb to win an argument you have created yourself.

Example
Package 1
Best center prospect not in NHL 19 year old 6'4
10 oa 1st

Package 2
Solid winger prospect
20th overall
Some 4th liner


What's the best deal? One has more components to it so it must be the best deal.

Look what some of us are saying is that the NHL piece you are adding is taking value away from the main component of the deal. It's a pretty simple concept to understand.

Its not about winning an argument or dumbing anything down.

I'm just highlighting how little some folks are willing to move Pacioretty for.

The NHL piece that should be added shouldn't take value away from the deal, you've convinced yourself of that but I don't think that's the case at all.

If the Blues want Pacioretty for example...then Robert Thomas should not be the main compoment of the deal.

Furthermore, I don't get the examples your providing here...you'll have to elaborate on that.

 

[417]

Lucic return the 13th pick and Jones who was then flipped for the 30th pick. That was for Lucic for one whole year and then UFA. Not saying we get this return for sure on draft day but you ask me and I answered. Patch for a playoff run and another full season with the shot at re-signing him is a significant add for a cup contender. We need to be careful with the return we get or we keep him.

Why not? Why could the Bruins get that for Lucic and not the Habs for Pacioretty?

 

[Ozmodiar]

It's silly to dumb it down like this. It always depends on who the prospect is and how high that first round pick is. Don't play dumb to win an argument you have created yourself.

Example
Package 1
Best center prospect not in NHL 19 year old 6'4
10 oa 1st

Package 2
Solid winger prospect
20th overall
Some 4th liner


What's the best deal? One has more components to it so it must be the best deal.

Look what some of us are saying is that the NHL piece you are adding is taking value away from the main component of the deal. It's a pretty simple concept to understand.

Exactly. If Bergevin has identified 2 or 3 of the best center prospects in the league, and a team offers up one of them + 1st, then Bergevin will take it. He won't say 'no' because the team didn't add a complementary piece. lol

 

[417]

Exactly. If Bergevin has identified 2 or 3 of the best center prospects in the league, and a team offers up one of them + 1st, then Bergevin will take it. He won't say 'no' because the team didn't add a complementary piece. lol

I don't disagree with that...but who are these 2 or 3 best center prospects?

I don't think Robert Thomas is that personally.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Agreed...depends who that prospect is. He'd had to be a can't miss, he's going to play in the NHL next year AND make an impact, type of prospect.

If the team wants a player who will make an impact next year, they likely won't trade for a prospect. They'll make a 'hockey trade'.

If they trade for a prospect, they'll choose the player who projects to be the best when he's 24, 25. If that means another year in Junior or the AHL, then so be it. They won't rush him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Saad would be a good addition, but habs need to get a centre 1st and foremost

Saad would be a lateral move where we trade a significant asset to get him. At this stage I support focusing on futures and make a big fish move. It's a big fish or no fish type strategy. If the Blackhawks wanted a package other than 1st round picks, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, etc, I would negotiate.

Attempt #1: Ask them to package something from this... one of our Goalie prospects, Hudon, Shaw, 2nd round picks, Evans, etc. Likely not enough but I tell them you might not like the next offer...

Attempt #2: Galchenyuk & Shaw for Saad, their 2018 1st (no protection) and a 2019 2nd. I would prefer not to trade Galchenyuk but this might be a deal I would do. It would make me think for sure. Two shots at a lottery win or a top 3 pick is a solid move. Even if we don't win, we get two top 10 picks or two top 15 picks and can get a Center and a defenseman from this as well as Saad and an additional 2nd in the next draft. That would set us up well moving forward.

 

[417]

If the team wants a player who will make an impact next year, they likely won't trade for a prospect. They'll make a 'hockey trade'.

If they trade for a prospect, they'll choose the player who projects to be the best when he's 24, 25. If that means another year in Junior or the AHL, then so be it. They won't rush him.

Give me some names...who?

I don't think Robert Thomas, a player we often mention, is world's ahead of Ryan Poehling.

Same level of prospect as far as I'm concerned.

So if all it takes from the Blues to acquire Pacioretty is Thomas +1st (which they don't even have)...

Then the Habs should seriously consider trading Ryan Poehling and their 1st to go out and acquire an established center whose at the level of Pacioretty but who plays center.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why not? Why could the Bruins get that for Lucic and not the Habs for Pacioretty?

Because every trade is negotiated under different circumstances. Heck, we might be able to get a better pick if another team feels the 5th - 10th range is something they can trade on draft day. It's hard to predict what other GM's are thinking and you only know until you talk to them

 

[Ozmodiar]

I don't disagree with that...but who are these 2 or 3 best center prospects?

I don't think Robert Thomas is that personally.

I don't know. Could be Steel, Thomas or Eriksson-Ek.

If MB doesn't value these guys highly, or they're not available, then he'll likely wait until the draft.

... or move on to a winger prospect, or trade for bigger package, or make a hockey trade, or give Patches an extension.
Who knows what that guy is thinking?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Give me some names...who?

I don't think Robert Thomas, a player we often mention, is world's ahead of Ryan Poehling.

Same level of prospect as far as I'm concerned.

So if all it takes from the Blues to acquire Pacioretty is Thomas +1st (which they don't even have)...

Then the Habs should seriously consider trading Ryan Poehling and their 1st to go out and acquire an established center whose at the level of Pacioretty but who plays center.

I agree Thomas is not a much better prospect vs Poehling. He may have a higher offensive ceiling but Poehling is one darn good two way center and I see him NHL ready sooner vs Thomas.

 

[417]

I don't know. Could be Steel, Thomas or Eriksson-Ek.

If MB doesn't value these guys highly, or they're not available, then he'll likely wait until the draft.

... or move on to a winger prospect, or trade for bigger package, or make a hockey trade, or give Patches an extension.
Who knows what that guy is thinking?

Eriksson Ek is a guy I'm for sure interested in...

I'd be looking at a package like

Eriksson Ek + Olofsson + 1st round pick

I'd maybe even expand into a bigger deal to get Coyle and the Habs could throw in another player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Eriksson Ek is a guy I'm for sure interested in...

I'd be looking at a package like

Eriksson Ek + Olofsson + 1st round pick

I'd maybe even expand into a bigger deal to get Coyle and the Habs could throw in another player.

Not sure the Wild make this kind of all in move. They regretted the Hanzal move big time last year.

 

[Garnet76]

A team trading for patches this trade deadline also has the opportunity to trade him at next years tradeline if it doesnt work out. That in itself is worth a 1st rd. The problem is there is an abundance of lwers on the market and your trying to get a center which are in very high demand. This puts a questionable GM in a tough spot.

 

[417]

Not sure the Wild make this kind of all in move. They regretted the Hanzal move big time last year.

Not sure how that's the same risk...there's a difference trading for Hanzal and trading for Pacioretty.

 

[Andrei79]

I don't disagree with that...but who are these 2 or 3 best center prospects?

I don't think Robert Thomas is that personally.

Who are though ?

Hischier, Jost, Patrick, Dubois, Barzal are in the NHL. Pettersson now projects as a winger, so does Mittelstadt.

There's a cluster of center prospects you could consider in that top 3, which imo Thomas is part of. But, he's not a blue chipper, so in that sense he gets overrated by Blues fans. I like him a lot, personnally.

 

[Andrei79]

Not sure the Wild make this kind of all in move. They regretted the Hanzal move big time last year.

Pacioretty is a legit 1st line winger though. He's not injury prone either.

 

[Tyson]

Mark Jankowski would be someone I would try and get. Big center who seems to have some upside. Scored his 9th goal last night. Still very young

 

[theghost1]

So a 25 year old power forward who is good for 20-30 goals, 50+ points and entering his prime years is not worth anything in your mind? CASE CLOSED!!!!!! (fingers in your ears yelling) Nananananananaan don't want to hear anything else Nanananana!!

I hate to be the one to tell you this but Saad has better numbers than EVERY other Canadiens forward other than Patches over the past few years yet he's not worthy of anything in your eyes. That just tells me you haven't seen him play at all because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Good comment ..thanks tips.

 

[417]

Who are though ?

Hischier, Jost, Patrick, Dubois, Barzal are in the NHL. Pettersson now projects as a winger, so does Mittelstadt.

There's a cluster of center prospects you could consider in that top 3, which imo Thomas is part of. But, he's not a blue chipper, so in that sense he gets overrated by Blues fans. I like him a lot, personnally.

I suppose if you're convinced Robert Thomas can have the same type of impact the guys bolded are having this year, next year..

Then by all means...I'm not personally convinced he's at that level.

 

[Whitesnake]

Saad would be a stupid addition. A great complementary player to nothing is nothing. But if Bergevin is able, somehow, to get us Vilardi.....I will refrain from calling him an idiot....till his next stupid move.

 

[Andrei79]

I suppose if you're convinced Robert Thomas can have the same type of impact the guys bolded are having this year, next year..

Then by all means...I'm not personally convinced he's at that level.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant it in the sense those players bolded would be the top center prospects for their age and clearly above Thomas. They're blue chippers.

Thomas is in the tier below, but at its fringe as I like his smarts and hands enough that I think he could have a steep development curve in the NHL.

If you're trading Pacioretty to the Blues, one of Kyrou or Thomas has to come back the other way.

 

[Milhouse40]

Some might want to re-evaluate their asking price/proposal for Pacioretty...