Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Trade Deadline edition
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blarneylad
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- Feb 1, 2009
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Ah gotcha.
Hard to envision vegas going all in this year and sacrificing future before they build it.
I could see them taking a major step back next season. Losing a building block would hurt even more.
But in Habs side I would want an add on top of Glass. Again making it unrealistic
Bilgerat10
Registered User
Oh please, historically, Pacioretty will get you 30+ goals a season--but he is streaky and disappears for stretches at a time. So yes, he is consistently streaky. Lets not deify him--2 or 3 opposing players draped on his back? He is a perimeter player and rarely goes into the dirty areas. He is a black hole on the power play and he does disappear in the playoffs. Which is what it is. Radulov played with the same limitations that Pacioretty had last year -- and got his groove by mid-season and was at times dominant last year and, unlike Pacioretty, he showed up in the playoffs. And Radulov, who is indeed a premier player, wanted to come back. However, MB jerked him around (see Markov) -- so he walked. So don't be offended if someone doesn't see Pacioretty the same way you do.
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The Great Weal
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Sterling Archer
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- Sep 26, 2006
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There’s so much wrong in your post that I don’t even want to bother. Look up who spends the most time in front of the net in the nhl and you’ll see Patches there around the 5 spot. Look who’s standing in the slot or in the crease during the PP when it’s working well and you’ll see him there. Look who’s a league leader in goals and who’s led his team in goals scored and points for 7 or 8 seasons now. You may have an axe to grind for whatever reason but Patches is an excellent player and deserves more than “fans” like you who think he’s a terrible hockey player because he doesn’t do the things you want him to do.
Ask yourself this. If he’s so terrible, why is the expected return for him so high??
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On Vegas people are making good points about why they should hesitate about going all in, and instead keeping their youth.
For sure it is an understatement they have exceeded any expectations and ought to be well pleased with what they have done. Incredible.
They have 2 centres that could finish with 30 and 40 goals respectively. And they are both in their prime.
But should they be satisfied ?
Let's face it, the goal is to win the Cup
These guys have kept it up throughout the year, it's not as if they are crawling into a play off spot. Depending on the day they are in the top 3 in the league.
They have something going. Something really special. For all they know this could be the best they will have for the next 10 years. Any other team would be looking to add if it thought it needed a piece to go for the Cup. I don't see any reason for them not to do that.
For sure it is an understatement they have exceeded any expectations and ought to be well pleased with what they have done. Incredible.
They have 2 centres that could finish with 30 and 40 goals respectively. And they are both in their prime.
But should they be satisfied ?
Let's face it, the goal is to win the Cup
These guys have kept it up throughout the year, it's not as if they are crawling into a play off spot. Depending on the day they are in the top 3 in the league.
They have something going. Something really special. For all they know this could be the best they will have for the next 10 years. Any other team would be looking to add if it thought it needed a piece to go for the Cup. I don't see any reason for them not to do that.
Bilgerat10
Registered User
At no point do I say that Max is a "bad player" -- and I have acknowledged that he is good for 30+ goals. The notion that you think I think he's a "terrible player" is an inference that you are making. What precipitated this discussion is my reference to the fact that Max has a habit of disappearing when it counts. Clutch, he ain't. Regarding the power play, 5 goals over a hot weekend has catapulted the Habs into the top 10 power play overall in the NHL. However, the PP has been problematic and in the tank for the last few seasons and a half. And Max is no centerpiece on the PP--historically, it has been PK, then Weber--and now, Drouin. For the most part Max was playing off the RW wall almost exclusively whenever he was on the PP, not in the slot or in the front of the net. That is where Gally goes. The current success with the PP sees Chucky playing off the RW wall right now in Max's place and I would suggest that has been a difference maker with the current success on the PP. Historically, Max's PP stats has been pretty mediocre for the amount of ice time he has gotten on the PP--and during that time the Habs have had a mediocre PP.
To suggest that his value is cemented by whatever "expected return" he may get in a trade is a false equivalency and entirely speculative--it's like saying, "My goat is worth four ducks. See!" ... and you have yet to go to market to make the transaction.
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le_sean
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- Oct 21, 2006
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Vegas seems to have built a team completely based on chemistry because on paper they are nothing special. Bringing in a big player might mess up with that. I’d continue with the unexpected team and see how far I go before making a huge move. Do it in the summer.
WinterLion
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Sterling Archer
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Well thanks for the "good for 30 goals," as if it's some humdrum thing that happens to everyone every year. You do realize that only a handful of players in the NHL can do that year in and year out for several years, right? That in and of itself is a huge accomplishment which is why he's the most highly regarded player at the trade deadline.
As for not being clutch, again, the numbers don't bare that out. He's the best ever in the Canadiens history for game winning goals. How is that possible when he's "not clutch?" You say it's because of the playoffs that he doesn't perform. You're right that he's a streaky scorer as nearly all snipers are. But when you are literally the only option to score goals on a team that struggles to score, it becomes monumentally more difficult when the other teams best shut down players have the sole pupose to shadow and shut him down, knowing that the Habs can't overcome. It's been proven time and time again. The only time we had another scoring option was Cammalleri and look how well that turned out when we had scoring depth! Chucky playing on the 4th line as the only real goal scorer on the team was not a benefit. Look at a guy like Phil Kessel and how playing on a 3rd line allowed him to blow up in the playoffs when the other team was worried about covering Crosby and Malkin. Think Kessel is better and more clutch than Max is? Not a chance.
As for the PP, it was terrible for several reasons. Max on the right side in the one timer is not his natural position but he played it anyways because Chucky was in the doghouse. Now that he's in the slot where he should be with Chucky on the half wall it's starting to click more. It's as much Max's fault that he was put in the wrong spot as it was to have DD on the PP for ages without a point. It's amazing that once he is playing where he should be, things become a lot easier. More a function of coaching than Patches. Max is a guy who scores off the rush and when he's lingering around the net. With almost no PMD to pass him the puck on a fast break and playing with centres like Danault who can't get him the puck when he's in prime scoring position, what do you expect the guy to do? Not that he's without any blame, he's definitely dogged it on several nights this year but I think that's more a result of knowing you're out of the playoffs and the weight of the C being too much for him. Take those away and he's a top NHL forward who's good for 30-40 goals and plays in ALL situations. You can't say that about many players in the league.
le_sean
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- Oct 21, 2006
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They are already better, they managed to get Lias Andersson for Derek Stepan before actually rebuilding.
justafan22
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If the Habs want Jenner, a players I actually think they should get, they don't have to include Pacioretty to get it done.
Imagine the Habs would of had that kind of foresight years ago and moved Plekanec when his value was at its highest...
Bilgerat10
Registered User
Again, I am not trying to be dismissive about Max's offensive contributions and ability to find the net. He is a legit 30-40 goal scorer and he has been hamstrung by not having a number 1 center. And I do believe giving him the C was misplaced and put undue pressure on him in the long run. I also think losing Rads was the game changer coming into this season. Radulov was the perfect complementary winger to Max. He was a high impact, creative puck mover and excellent passer.
Max can find the net from wherever he is on the ice; that--combined with his quick release--gives him an uncanny ability to pile up the shots on goals. He is a big body and has speed. Think about it--how many breakaways did he get when PK was feeding him those outlet passes?
As well, Max is good on the penalty kill and can be defensively responsible--in that way he does play a "complete game."
But he also streaky and has a habit of disappearing when the stakes are high. That dimension of his game has drawn considerable attention, especially with the under-performing teams we've had over the last few years.
And like you, I do blame coaching and management for mismanaging personnel and talent and for creating some of the stress that Max has endured.
We can only conjecture what Max's game would be like, given the same scenario as Kessel--and the sad truth may be that we may not know this with Max in a Habs uniform. This team is a "patchwork"--and has regressed since this past season, even with the addition of Drouin, who I think will suffer the same conditions that Max has endured these past seasons.
Hate to say it--I think MB would be doing Pacioretty a favor by trading him to a team tooling up for a Cup run.
Max can find the net from wherever he is on the ice; that--combined with his quick release--gives him an uncanny ability to pile up the shots on goals. He is a big body and has speed. Think about it--how many breakaways did he get when PK was feeding him those outlet passes?
As well, Max is good on the penalty kill and can be defensively responsible--in that way he does play a "complete game."
But he also streaky and has a habit of disappearing when the stakes are high. That dimension of his game has drawn considerable attention, especially with the under-performing teams we've had over the last few years.
And like you, I do blame coaching and management for mismanaging personnel and talent and for creating some of the stress that Max has endured.
We can only conjecture what Max's game would be like, given the same scenario as Kessel--and the sad truth may be that we may not know this with Max in a Habs uniform. This team is a "patchwork"--and has regressed since this past season, even with the addition of Drouin, who I think will suffer the same conditions that Max has endured these past seasons.
Hate to say it--I think MB would be doing Pacioretty a favor by trading him to a team tooling up for a Cup run.
BigHabs
#11
- Aug 3, 2009
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I just hope Bergevin does the right thing and just sell.
Reports and talk about keeping Plekanec. Doesn't make sense at this point anymore. Instead of just rebuilding its saying Bergevin wants to re-tool. I mean there is a base but this team hasn't been able to score in in many seasons. The defense this year is a disaster.
Just tear it down and keep the young guys.
Scherbak
Hudon
Danault
Carr
Drouin
Gallagher
Galchenyuk
Mete
Can't probably move:
Price
Weber
Alzner
Shaw
Deal from now until the draft:
Lehkonen
Byron
Petry
Pacioretty
De La Rose
McCarron
Hemsky
Plekanec
Benn
Schlemko
Niemi
Roll with:
Drouin Galchenyuk Scherbak
Hudon Danault Gallagher
Carr Shaw ????
Deslauriers ???? ????
Froese
Mete Weber
Alzner Juulsen
???? Lernout
????
Price
Lindgren
Obviously the lineup will look different with the likes of Pacioretty / Petry / Byron / Plekanec traded. Roster players coming back most likely.
It will most likely be a long painful time, but do it right and get this thing rebuilt and finally get more offense and better scorers.
During the free agency take a look at guys like:
Mikael Backlund
Calvin DeHaan
Jan Rutta
Adding these guys could make the Habs look like:
Drouin Galchenyuk Scherbak
Hudon Backlund Gallagher
Carr Danault Shaw
Deslauriers ???? ????
Froese
Meter Weber
Alzner Rutta
DeHaan Juulsen
Lernout
Again without getting roster players back from trades.
Reports and talk about keeping Plekanec. Doesn't make sense at this point anymore. Instead of just rebuilding its saying Bergevin wants to re-tool. I mean there is a base but this team hasn't been able to score in in many seasons. The defense this year is a disaster.
Just tear it down and keep the young guys.
Scherbak
Hudon
Danault
Carr
Drouin
Gallagher
Galchenyuk
Mete
Can't probably move:
Price
Weber
Alzner
Shaw
Deal from now until the draft:
Lehkonen
Byron
Petry
Pacioretty
De La Rose
McCarron
Hemsky
Plekanec
Benn
Schlemko
Niemi
Roll with:
Drouin Galchenyuk Scherbak
Hudon Danault Gallagher
Carr Shaw ????
Deslauriers ???? ????
Froese
Mete Weber
Alzner Juulsen
???? Lernout
????
Price
Lindgren
Obviously the lineup will look different with the likes of Pacioretty / Petry / Byron / Plekanec traded. Roster players coming back most likely.
It will most likely be a long painful time, but do it right and get this thing rebuilt and finally get more offense and better scorers.
During the free agency take a look at guys like:
Mikael Backlund
Calvin DeHaan
Jan Rutta
Adding these guys could make the Habs look like:
Drouin Galchenyuk Scherbak
Hudon Backlund Gallagher
Carr Danault Shaw
Deslauriers ???? ????
Froese
Meter Weber
Alzner Rutta
DeHaan Juulsen
Lernout
Again without getting roster players back from trades.
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sampollock
Registered User
Adam Michaels
Registered User
I wouldn't mind seeing MB claim Jooris off waivers today. He's a RD, a UFA at the end of this year and his cap hit is only 770K. Bringing him in may permit MB to move someone like Benn as an example for a pick.
This way, next year, you have both Jooris and Benn off the roster and a spot open for an RD in either Lernout (needs waivers next season) or Juulsen.
This way, next year, you have both Jooris and Benn off the roster and a spot open for an RD in either Lernout (needs waivers next season) or Juulsen.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Is he a RD, I thought he was a forward? The guy who used to play for Calgary and burned us on breakaways every time?
Last time torts coached patch he benched him after like half a period (my memory is not perfect though). He was on a line with patrck kane and torts was not happy with the effort level.
Price,Weber,Alzner,Shaw easy to move.....Phaneuf was moved,Clarkson was moved any player can be moved especially if you are doing a full rebuild that means you take many back to get better prospects.
I mean you take money back if you do a rebuild you will need to get to the cap floor anyways.
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