Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 77

[salbutera]

Montreal has not developed prospects in an acceptable way. You can’t just assume that they can suddenly do so because there’s a new (rookie!!) GM on board.

So you want a five+ year rebuild? The Avs tanked for five years ten years ago and Edmonton tanks and sucked for even longer and now one of them won’t even make the cup final in 2022.

This is not sustainable!

We disagree, so be it.

But I insist wasting time is no way to build a team and no way to impress the fans.

All this is is wasting time.

The Habs have Suzuki, Caufield, Wright already, bunch of young dmen prospects, and a bunch of shitty contracts they can’t get rid of.

The best thing to do is to add talent at all times and to churn through ineffective contracts for more cost effective ones (ie Byron -> Pitlick).

You add premium talent and can always sell it and make moves. You don’t add talent and just sit on your hands hoping for prospects to make it, with this god awful development regime we’ve had for the last 30 years, and you’ll get nowhere. That’s the Bergevin way.

It actually wasn’t, MB constantly turned his roster year-over-year, but preferred to do so via pro player moves, since there was no amateur pipeline to help support that strategy

 

[ReHabs]

It actually wasn’t, MB constantly turned his roster year-over-year, but preferred to do so via pro player moves, since there was no amateur pipeline to help support that strategy

He never once added a core player, not by draft, trade, signing, waivers, luck. Not one.

I’m simply arguing to trade the excess futures we have to add core players in their 20s. If it doesn’t pan out you can always sell him for more futures.

 

[ArtPeur]

He never once added a core player, not by draft, trade, signing, waivers, luck. Not one.

I’m simply arguing to trade the excess futures we have to add core players in their 20s. If it doesn’t pan out you can always sell him for more futures.

Suzuki and Caufield?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Montreal has not developed prospects in an acceptable way. You can’t just assume that they can suddenly do so because there’s a new (rookie!!) GM on board.

So you want a five+ year rebuild? The Avs tanked for five years ten years ago and Edmonton tanks and sucked for even longer and now one of them won’t even make the cup final in 2022.

This is not sustainable!

We disagree, so be it.

But I insist wasting time is no way to build a team and no way to impress the fans.

All this is is wasting time.

The Habs have Suzuki, Caufield, Wright already, bunch of young dmen prospects, and a bunch of shitty contracts they can’t get rid of.

The best thing to do is to add talent at all times and to churn through ineffective contracts for more cost effective ones (ie Byron -> Pitlick).

You add premium talent and can always sell it and make moves. You don’t add talent and just sit on your hands hoping for prospects to make it, with this god awful development regime we’ve had for the last 30 years, and you’ll get nowhere. That’s the Bergevin way.

I'm not saying Montreal can develop players better now with a new front office, I'm saying they'll need to be, since there is no alternative.

I want Montreal win a cup in my lifetime. I don't care if they're ass for a decade, I want to witness them winning a cup. It is basically impossible to that without elite players and the vast majority of elite players are obtained through the draft. Montreal simply doesn't have the cap space to acquire them elsewhere either.

We also don't know what Suzuki and Caufield will be. Like many other Habs prospects, they stagnated this year. Hopefully the jump under MSL isn't an abberation. Romanov has stagnated. We don't know if Wright will even be 1st line/1b center. Or if they pick someone else, they'll hit either. They have no D prospects that project as a #1 D and Guhle is probably the only one that may be a #2 D. So the fix is taking Montreal's non existant cap space and using it on a winger that had a career year, throwing in a top prospect and pick that is likely going to be top 10 or better.

Arguing that the only proven sustainable way to build a contender is in fact not sustainable makes no god damn sense. You just don't want to risk a chance at being the 15/16th best team in the NHL.

I also don't know what you're talking about "this god awful development regime we’ve had for the last 30 years", Montreal was one of the best draft and develop teams in the NHL for most of the Gainey era. They just never had the premium picks or excess picks except for 2007, which is arguably the best draft classes of any team in the cap era.

 

[Adam Michaels]

A trade tree that started with Zach Redmond:

from an Andrew Zadanowski tweet

 

[Heffyhoof]

Suzuki, Caufield, Wright, Fiala (Coming in from trading our 1st next year if it isn't top 3). Can't wait to compete for the bubble cup with that team! Or just realize the team has already tanked for 2 years worth of young players (this draft included) and it'll only take two more years of bottom 10ish finishes to have that good young group that you start adding to so your team makes the playoffs. Next year is definitely not the time.

 

[Andrewcoursol]

I wouldn’t mind trading Romanov because we have good lhd prospects coming but the only thing I accept in exchange for him is a chance at a top pair RHD.

I mind trading Romonov, here is why, Romonov is young and established as an adequate top 4 with a physical presence, why would anybody trade that type of player or a similar younger player in hopes of making a move at the draft for a maybe prospect or hope that this player turns out and meets desired expectations, besides Montreal only has good d prospects not sure things outside of Guhle, Barron shoots right handed and can still progress, a few others have a chance to play as well, the point is it is not wise to pay for hype, imagine what it would have cost to end up with Yakupov, looking back would you do the Lindros trade, no cup for Philly, but core pieces added made the Avs champs.
Any team will always consider trading a draft picking position or player if another team will overpay.

 

[Andrewcoursol]

Wright, Cooley, Nemec, Jiricek, Slaf. All 1st line, top pairing ceilings That is the top 5 most people talk about , so is paying up to get the 6thOA or lower even worth it ?

not worth it, no need to overpay for hype, hope, or maybe caliber of player, example would you want to be the gm who overpaid for the right to draft Yakupov? look back at the Lindros deal, would you do that deal again if you Philly? probably not., Philly did ok afterwards because the habs traded Leclair and others for Recchi, than doubled down and purchased hope and maybe with players received for Roy and Keane, both of these deals set up the avs for a decade of being a real championship contender, we all know how the habs have been for the last 30 years, and counting,

 

[bcv]

-The Rangers rebuild was 4 years. They also had key pieces.

-Tampa picked in the top 10 in 5 of 6 drafts from 2008 to 2013.

-How did the Avs get that top-5 player? Was it perhaps part of their stretch from 2009 to 2013 of picking in the top-3 every other year? Or more broadly, picking top-10.

-I really don't need to rehash Edmonton's accrual of top picks, do I?

Building is not paying big for established players when they're going to be paid massive contracts for career years. Building is drafting elite talent and nurturing it to build a contending core.Hopefully ones that will take slight discounts in their prime for an opportunity to win a cup.

Montreal is not going to fire-sale as much anymore. That doesn't mean they're going to go contender mode and go big game hunting for the biggest names on the market. Because they're nowhere close to that.

Bergevin and Timmins are gone largely because the Habs have not developed any talent of note in a very long time. Its the area HuGo have focused the most on when coming in. Its a non-replaceable part of team building. You live and die by it, but you don't do the Bergevin thing of just trying to make the playoffs, where "anything can happen". We've seen the peak of that strategy already.

I would also like to add that they added key pieces in Panarin, Trouba and Fox basically for free because they wanted to be in NYC. It's an advantage that not a lot of teams has (MTL doesn't).

 

[salbutera]

He never once added a core player, not by draft, trade, signing, waivers, luck. Not one.

I’m simply arguing to trade the excess futures we have to add core players in their 20s. If it doesn’t pan out you can always sell him for more futures.

I would qualify Vanek, Petry, Danault, Radulov as core players.

 

[salbutera]

 

[ReHabs]

I would qualify Vanek, Petry, Danault, Radulov as core players.

Vanek was a rental
Petry a defender
Danault not a core player
Radulov was not retained

I should’ve clarified: Bergevin never added a core player to the offence. By core players let’s say someone who can get 65+ pts. It isn’t too much to ask for and Bergevin didn’t manage to do it.

He traded Pacioretty for a package that included Suzuki. And he drafted Caufield and nearly ran him into bust status with his imbecile coach. Neither of them have hit 65 points.

After ten years that is just a sad state of affairs. We should do the opposite of that.

 

[Andrei79]

I would qualify Vanek, Petry, Danault, Radulov as core players.

You would qualify a rental player and a one year deal as core players ?

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm sure there's a deal to be had with the Leafs on Allen.

Take Mrazek as the 'vet', he's a cap dump.. and retain a little bit on Allen. We could probably snatch a prospect like Hirvonen/Ovchinnikov from them and a solid pick in a future draft.

 

[waitin425]

I'm sure there's a deal to be had with the Leafs on Allen.

Take Mrazek as the 'vet', he's a cap dump.. and retain a little bit on Allen. We could probably snatch a prospect like Hirvonen/Ovchinnikov from them and a solid pick in a future draft.

What about an Allen for Mrazek + 25th overall swap with whatever we need to retain to make it work?

 

[WeThreeKings]

What about an Allen for Mrazek + 25th overall swap with whatever we need to retain to make it work?

I think Dubas is super reluctant to give up his 1st round pick, but I think we could also send back Byron or Drouin on a lot of retention in the same deal and it might work out.

Especially if the Leafs move Nylander in a deal for some help on the back-end or in the middle. A fully retained Drouin could potentially mitigate some of the offense lost there.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Montreal has not developed prospects in an acceptable way. You can’t just assume that they can suddenly do so because there’s a new (rookie!!) GM on board.

So you want a five+ year rebuild? The Avs tanked for five years ten years ago and Edmonton tanks and sucked for even longer and now one of them won’t even make the cup final in 2022.

This is not sustainable!

We disagree, so be it.

But I insist wasting time is no way to build a team and no way to impress the fans.

All this is is wasting time.

The Habs have Suzuki, Caufield, Wright already, bunch of young dmen prospects, and a bunch of shitty contracts they can’t get rid of.

The best thing to do is to add talent at all times and to churn through ineffective contracts for more cost effective ones (ie Byron -> Pitlick).

You add premium talent and can always sell it and make moves. You don’t add talent and just sit on your hands hoping for prospects to make it, with this god awful development regime we’ve had for the last 30 years, and you’ll get nowhere. That’s the Bergevin way.

What you are advocating for is the road to mediocrity/bubble team. Would make Bergevin proud.

 

[David Suzuki]

Fans will say Suzuki or Caufield

Surely not lol

 

[Vachon23]

Surely not lol

I mean that would be the price for OTT or they will look elsewhere

There is no other player that will make Ottawa make the move

 

[blarneylad]

A trade tree that started with Zach Redmond:

from an Andrew Zadanowski tweet

View attachment 554254

He turned nobodies into future nobodies?

 

[BLONG7]

A trade tree that started with Zach Redmond:

from an Andrew Zadanowski tweet

View attachment 554254

Rinse and repeat on a lot of habs player movement under the Bergy Tree.

 

[The Great Weal]

Allen for Smith/Koskinen+1st might be doable

 

[Vachon23]

Rondelle libre | Les six dossiers de Kent Hughes

Le repêchage de la LNH retient évidemment beaucoup l’attention à Montréal puisque le Canadien détient le premier choix au total pour la première fois depuis 1980, mais il s’agira de l’un des aspects seulement du travail du directeur général Kent Hughes au cours de la période estivale. En voici six.

www.lapresse.ca

Il semble qu’il y a toujours espoir de voir le contrat de Shea Weber passer aux Coyotes de l’Arizona. Son salaire comptera pour 7,8 millions de la masse au cours des quatre prochaines années et il lui reste 6 millions à recevoir en salaire, soit une moyenne de 1,5 million par saison. Son contrat le rend très attrayant pour un club visant à atteindre le plancher salarial sans trop dépenser. Ne soyez pas surpris de voir Jonathan Drouin passer aux Coyotes dans une telle transaction. Loin d’être une affaire conclut, mais vous l’aurez lu ici en premier si jamais ça se produit. Montréal libérerait ainsi plus de 13 millions sur sa masse en prévision de l’an prochain.

He's saying that he would't be surprise if Jonathan Drouin is in the deal with Shea Weber to Arizona

 

[neil2005]

Rondelle libre | Les six dossiers de Kent Hughes

Le repêchage de la LNH retient évidemment beaucoup l’attention à Montréal puisque le Canadien détient le premier choix au total pour la première fois depuis 1980, mais il s’agira de l’un des aspects seulement du travail du directeur général Kent Hughes au cours de la période estivale. En voici six.

www.lapresse.ca

Interesting paragraph in the article which is in french. "Il semble qu’il y a toujours espoir de voir le contrat de Shea Weber passer aux Coyotes de l’Arizona. Son salaire comptera pour 7,8 millions de la masse au cours des quatre prochaines années et il lui reste 6 millions à recevoir en salaire, soit une moyenne de 1,5 million par saison. Son contrat le rend très attrayant pour un club visant à atteindre le plancher salarial sans trop dépenser. Ne soyez pas surpris de voir Jonathan Drouin passer aux Coyotes dans une telle transaction. Loin d’être une affaire conclut, mais vous l’aurez lu ici en premier si jamais ça se produit. Montréal libérerait ainsi plus de 13 millions sur sa masse en prévision de l’an prochain."

It's not a done deal but can see Drouin and Weber both heading to Arizona in the offseason

 

[David Suzuki]

I mean that would be the price for OTT or they will look elsewhere

There is no other player that will make Ottawa make the move

If Ottawa could get a Suzuki/Caufield asset for the 7th pick in this draft I think the trade would just need to be signed lol.

The only way they get an asset like that is if the asset wants out of their current situation and the 7th pick is the best offer they can get for them.

He turned nobodies into future nobodies?

Farrell has a pretty good shot of being a top 9 player.