Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 77

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I’ve been thinking what if management went off in a different direction, by trading for PLD, Lafreniere and signing Letang.

Our rebuild, for all intents and purpose would be over even if it takes a year or two to become a playoff team.

If the purpose of your rebuild is to make the playoffs and be happy with a conference final every 5 years, sure.

The ask for PLD or Laff if Montreal is trying to get them will be astronomical because they know you want those 2 because they speak French. At this point get players like Mavrik Bourque or Peletier or draft some.
 
I’ve been thinking what if management went off in a different direction, by trading for PLD, Lafreniere and signing Letang.

Our rebuild, for all intents and purpose would be over even if it takes a year or two to become a playoff team.
I love the idea of getting Lafrenière and Dubois . Letang would be an incredible mentor for the next generation dmen, but i don't believe he will sign for cheap, so ...

Once you get those 2 players, it will be more attractive to other players to sign here. You know, Huberdeau is going to be UFA after 2022-2023 ;)

Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Lafrenière, Dubois, Drouin, Huberdeau, Ylonën, Gallagher, Pitlick, and soon Joshua Roy and Farrel ...That would be a very good team, and full of good local players

dream on !
 
I love the idea of getting Lafrenière and Dubois . Letang would be an incredible mentor for the next generation dmen, but i don't believe he will sign for cheap, so ...

Once you get those 2 players, it will be more attractive to other players to sign here. You know, Huberdeau is going to be UFA after 2022-2023 ;)

Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Lafrenière, Dubois, Drouin, Huberdeau, Ylonën, Gallagher, Pitlick, and soon Joshua Roy and Farrel ...That would be a very good team, and full of good local players

dream on !
you can get Lafreniere AND Dubois and Maybe even Huberdeau. But you have to give up Suzuki, Caufield, 2022 1st, 2023 1st...
 
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I love the idea of getting Lafrenière and Dubois . Letang would be an incredible mentor for the next generation dmen, but i don't believe he will sign for cheap, so ...

Once you get those 2 players, it will be more attractive to other players to sign here. You know, Huberdeau is going to be UFA after 2022-2023 ;)

Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Lafrenière, Dubois, Drouin, Huberdeau, Ylonën, Gallagher, Pitlick, and soon Joshua Roy and Farrel ...That would be a very good team, and full of good local players

dream on !
Don't see it happening but man would I love to see a professional team full of local players win something. When's the last time something like that he happened in any sport??
 
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Would be a horrible mistake these 3 dont make us a contender and would cost assets and cap we dont have

And you mention Buffalo but how bout our two finalists right now

Hedmand and Stamkos were high picks
Mack,Makar and Byram were high picks

Chicago when they were winning all those cups had Toews and Kane

You draft elite talent in the top and build your core from there it doesnt happen in a year or 2 but it works
It doesn't always work. Look at Edmonton, Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona, Florida, etc. In fact, we know what works is drafting superstars -- what doesn't work is drafting superstars into an atmosphere of eternal and endless suckitude. The Habs cannot purposefully tank for more than three more years, that would be crazy. I honestly doubt they will try to tank after next year is finished.

He absolutely does raise his level of play. He’s been the best centre in each series he’s been in minus the Tampa one.

The playoff stats you’re taking are from his rookie and sophomore season but are comparing to his PPG of his 3rd season. Doesn’t make much sense.

In 10 elimination games he has 10 points. He’s everywhere on the ice.

I honestly can’t believe that someone that has watched Habs playoff games with his own eyes doesn’t think that Suzuki is a different beast when the chips are down. Also doing that as a rookie centering friggin Drouin and Armia. Then the last run he had a rookie on his wing and slow ass Toffoli.
I think he's consistently good in the playoffs, which is to his credit, but take his career playoff PPG (0.71) and stick it in our ongoing playoffs and you know what? He'd be ranked 65th amongst all skaters.

Like I said: scoring is way up, so you should raise your expectations.

We haven’t had a rebuild since… ever? Let’s “pump the brakes” on turning into “Buffalo: French Edition,” nonsense. This was a necessary rebuild to have happen, and we’ve got the first overall pick (for the first time since 1980!!). We aren’t anywhere near the perpetual rebuild that’s been Buffalo.

What do you plan on offering for Lafreniere (who’s been underwhelming to say the least but will still cost major assets), PLD, and where’s the cap (or incentive) to sign Letang?

Gorton successfully rebuilt the Bruins, and did all of the major work in assembling the Rangers (who just gave the Bolts all they could handle). Let’s maybe give him and Hughes more than a year to fix something that’s been stagnant, give or take an improbable playoff run or two, for 3 decades now? Especially before lumping them in to the Buffalo Sabres North category.
We've had multiple years of top10 picks in the last decade and pretty much nothing to show for it.

Selling off cap-inefficient contracts and signing cap-efficient contracts is very much necessary at all times, it is an ongoing process and good teams do it all the time. Chicago had to shed some contracts such as Hjalmarsson after their first cup win and restock and go for it again. The Habs will have to deal with whatever topX picks they get dealt but the one invariable factor here is TIME. You cannot suck for years on end. I don't see any well-reasoned perspective on the eventual building (as in re-building) that is necessary. If the Habs can trade magic beans that they'll get replenished every year anyway for established young players signed to good RFA contracts I see many advantages and very few disadvantages.

The topic isn't acquiring Laf, or PLD, or Letang or whoever -- it's acknowledging the merit of general strategy to add talent that matches the right age profile and cap planning. It's obviously easier done via drafting but guess what, the Habs are terrible at drafting and development -- and until they prove they aren't, I'm not gonna wish upon magic beans. After this 1OA/Shane Wright, the Habs will need to add D and G and start to act like they want to win. Hopefully the onset of the HuGo Era means we're done with half-assery and non-commitment.

The Endless Tank is the only thing we should be avoiding.
Draft picks aren't magic beans. They have real-world, strictly positive probabilities.
Draft picks get replenished every year, what doesn't get replenished is time and the wear & tear that comes with it. Carey Price was only good enough to rely on for a specific era, the Habs should've been more aggressive in that window to trade futures for presents. Instead they got neither. I don't want a repeat of that.

With the draft lottery being what it is and the Habs' horrific record of drafting and developing talent, there is no question that I'd rather trade for 70+ pt players than hope and pray the magic beans sprout on time to get them through the 'right way'. I genuinely cannot think of the last Habs player drafted by the Habs who has hit 70 points in Habs colours.
 
Throwing this out there. It might worjk if

a. You don't care that much among the top 3 draft picjs this year
b. You don't want to worry that gaining a winning culture next year will destroy the draft pick in the first round

Habs could trade their first pick this year to Arizxon for their 3OA
and
Trade their 2023 1st round pick to Arizona for Arizona's 1st round pick

With the lottery system, neither franchise could be sure of where they would pick hnext year anywaym but chances that Arizona drafts high are excellent.

Meanwhile, Habs can go get asw many wins under these kids and whoever else is put on the ice as they want, and the worst they do is lose 1 spot in the rankings compared to if they had fewer points (i.e. only their performance relative to Arizona would change anything).

I'm tempted by this becauwe I reallyl don't thibnk that the Habs will finish as low in the standings as this past year, and it would reduce the pressure to tank without increasihng the pressure to win at all costs.
It wouldn’t work, Arizona fans are very happy getting Cooley and they have no interest in trading their 2023 1st
 
I’ve been thinking what if management went off in a different direction, by trading for PLD, Lafreniere and signing Letang.

Our rebuild, for all intents and purpose would be over even if it takes a year or two to become a playoff team.

This could've been an actual possibility IF Letang was younger. Because as of now, Letang would have to be replaced by the very assets given to acquire PLD and/or Lafrenière.
 
It doesn't always work. Look at Edmonton, Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona, Florida, etc. In fact, we know what works is drafting superstars -- what doesn't work is drafting superstars into an atmosphere of eternal and endless suckitude. The Habs cannot purposefully tank for more than three more years, that would be crazy. I honestly doubt they will try to tank after next year is finished.


I think he's consistently good in the playoffs, which is to his credit, but take his career playoff PPG (0.71) and stick it in our ongoing playoffs and you know what? He'd be ranked 65th amongst all skaters.

Like I said: scoring is way up, so you should raise your expectations.

But Suzuki’s playoff production is from his rookie and sophomore season. Do you really believe his development and progression as a player will become stagnant? He’ll continue to be a 60 points player?

He’s going to continue to grow and get better over the next few seasons as his deal kicks in. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hits 70 points next season and becomes a ppg player in a few seasons, while playing in all key situations (maybe even becoming Captain).

Honestly, as a Habs fan, Suzuki’s deal is the least of my worries.
 
He has good defensive intentions, but so far in his career has been on the ice for way too many goals against. IOt did not really improve under MSL either.
I investigated that last year (not under MSL thought and not just about Suzuki) using naturalstattricks shift change graph and line stats. My theory/conclusion at the time was that the Habs get scored on mostly around player changes. So the problem would be the poor puck management skills of the team.

And if fits with all the people who realized that Suzuki needs to play with someone who is better at puck retrieval/protection skills and not just two of Anderson/Caufield/Hoffman/Drouin.

In other words, it's going to be a problem next season too.
 
But Suzuki’s playoff production is from his rookie and sophomore season. Do you really believe his development and progression as a player will become stagnant? He’ll continue to be a 60 points player?

He’s going to continue to grow and get better over the next few seasons as his deal kicks in. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hits 70 points next season and becomes a ppg player in a few seasons, while playing in all key situations (maybe even becoming Captain).

Honestly, as a Habs fan, Suzuki’s deal is the least of my worries.
You could be right and I agree with your final sentence. I brought up Suzuki's contract in comparison to the potential acquisition of PLD and the proposed 8m cap hit he would have... I think that's too much cap-inefficiency in an era where multiple players flirt with a 1.20 PPG (100pt season) every year.

I don't see anybody advocating for an endless rebuild. Actually, I don't think I've seen anybody advocating for tanking past the 2023 draft.
If the idea is to make the playoffs and win a round or two starting in 2023-2024 season playoffs, then the Habs need to add some young cap-controlled talent asap. No?

Do you think they can do it all after the 2023 draft, in that one off-season?
 
I don't see ownership being onboard with tanking until we get a couple of elite superstars and then proceed onwards.

From an ownership point of view, they'll lose way too much in revenue to make up for it in a couple of really good years.
Disagree............ownership is currently on board, we are pretty much half way there......patience is a virtue.
 
Posters saying Suzuki isn't a slam dunk 1st line center? In which multiverse have I landed? Saint-Jean Friday night's multiverse posters were calling me crazy!
 
I love the idea of getting Lafrenière and Dubois . Letang would be an incredible mentor for the next generation dmen, but i don't believe he will sign for cheap, so ...

Once you get those 2 players, it will be more attractive to other players to sign here. You know, Huberdeau is going to be UFA after 2022-2023 ;)

Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Lafrenière, Dubois, Drouin, Huberdeau, Ylonën, Gallagher, Pitlick, and soon Joshua Roy and Farrel ...That would be a very good team, and full of good local players

dream on !
Salary cap?
 

I don’t see it being the Habs with Eddy, Romanov, Guhle, Harris all trying to make the team. Even Xhekaj will make it soon because of his size. I know some can play the right side, but I think it creates an unnecessary logjam.

I’m more interested in seeing how the Knights deal with their cap. What a clusterf***.
 
Wow, I went to quickly check and literally over half of Colorados team was picked in the top ten. Not that they’re all major contributors at this point, just pretty wild.
 
I investigated that last year (not under MSL thought and not just about Suzuki) using naturalstattricks shift change graph and line stats. My theory/conclusion at the time was that the Habs get scored on mostly around player changes. So the problem would be the poor puck management skills of the team.

And if fits with all the people who realized that Suzuki needs to play with someone who is better at puck retrieval/protection skills and not just two of Anderson/Caufield/Hoffman/Drouin.

In other words, it's going to be a problem next season too.
Puck retrieval/protection skills plus the IQ to understand what Suzuki is trying to do, this will probably be a piece we will have to acquire by trade or ufa.
 
Puck retrieval/protection skills plus the IQ to understand what Suzuki is trying to do, this will probably be a piece we will have to acquire by trade or ufa.

It might be in bad timing for the rebuild but a UFA that fits the bill is Nichushkin. Why draft Slaf when you can sign Nuke? They are basically the same player. Nuke is a late bloomer but he learned from the best and you have to bet he's top 6 bound. I remember how highly touted he was in his draft year, he was as touted as Slaf is right now.
 
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It might be in bad timing for the rebuild but a UFA that fits the bill is Nichushkin. Why draft Slaf when you can sign Nuke? They are basically the same player. Nuke is a late bloomer but he learned from the best and you have to bet he's top 6 bound. I remember how highly touted he was in his draft year, he was as touted as Slaf is right now.
The timing is wrong for a 27 year old, but why would they trade him?
 
He has good defensive intentions, but so far in his career has been on the ice for way too many goals against. IOt did not really improve under MSL either.

I think the coach has to stop playing Caufield (and other smaller or weaker players defensively) on his off wing. MSL himself played mostly LW at 5 on 5.
He was a -18 at 5v5 this year and the remainder of the minuses were from empty nets and shorties. -18 at 5v5 on a last place team with zero depth, playing in front of Montembeault, Primeau, and Hammond, and with Ben Chiarot being used as the #1D for the majority of the season is not something that concerns me.

I truly do not understand all the agita around Suzuki's contract. 7.875 is not superstar franchise player mega money, I've said this a million times but as a percentage of the cap it is the equivalent of paying 5.75M to Plekanec instead of 5M back in 2010. Kevin Hayes costs you 7.1M in UFA these days, Tyler Bozak costs you 5M. By the time next season starts he'll already be ranked in the mid 20s AAV ranking for C's and will drop into the mid 40s to low 50s within a few years. He is currently paid to be an average to below average 1C, and will be paid to be an average 2C through the bulk of the contract.

As a percentage of the cap Suzuki is paid pretty much in line with what Derek Stepan was paid through his prime. The absolute worse case scenario is we paid for Stepan and got Stepan, which is absolutely fine as a 2C. And that's the worst case, given Suzuki at present projects as a much better player than Stepan was. It truly is the absolute least of our worries, at worst we have a great 2C making 2C money, at best we have a tandem 1C like Krejci or Backstrom making 2C money.
 
We don't need to get Dubois this year. We could get him next summer or in 2 years as a free agent.
exactly this^ we need to suck next year bottom 3 hopefully. Any UFA addition now is in vain. While it'd be nice to get PLD on the roster. let's just take him at UFA in 2 years, which will be about the time we are ready to peer our heads out again sniffing playoffs.
 
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