Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[HuGo Sham]

The problem with this team was that it gutted itself after the SC finals.

We lost Price, Weber, Danault, Tatar, Edmundson, KK but MB was slow and incompetent with his response and picked up Dvorak, Hoffman, Perreault, Paquette, Brooks and Niku. One month into the season MB was quoted as saying he didn't understand the team's terrible start. In my books that simple statement was reason enough to fire him on the spot. His centermen corps was decimated, he lost two key d-men and his star goalie. You compound that with the slew of injuries and Covid protocol absences and you get your 2021-22 Habs team.

Normally, I'm vehemently against blowing up the team. But I've changed my tune with this team. Price and Weber are either gone for good or will never attain their old form. I may have mentioned it when the trade went down but I didn't and don't think Dvorak wants to be here. Although I wasn't a KK fan he slotted well as the 3rd center on this team. I still think Tatar is better for the team than Hoffman and that leaves Edmundson, maybe he'll eventually return to his old form. You compound that with Chiarot becoming a UFA and you got huge, huge holes that can't be filled by trades and or signings without creating other holes and problems. And to add more gasoline to this tire fire next year all our "remaining" veterans will be a year older.

I"m all for a fire sale. Sell all players older than 25-26. And yes that includes Drouin. But I would trade them for picks, prospects and young NHLers. This fire sale should start with this upcoming trade deadline carry over into the summer and work its way into next year's deadline and summer. Gorton should get us at least four more first-round picks within the next two drafts, plus a few more second-rounders. This year is a loss. No news there. Next year (22-23) will be a total loss also. Maybe we'll make the playoffs the following year (23-24) if Gorton and the new GM are able to make some shrewd pick-ups.

Otherwise, if we go for a re-set or re-tool or simply a renovation, we will be stranded at the bottom of the league for the next decade.

good post. well said

 

[417]

Edm they got like 10 NHL player (out off 65 pick) half of them are now playing with the other team and 4 players have 99% of these pts point. If that is successful I can see why you think Mtl is a playoff team…
If they were not successful was it because the all off the trying to tank and losing mentally that they keep losing or were they just god damn awful made a bunch of bad decision, draft, trade and signing… any only got saved by Mcdavid.

I was talking about their 1st round picks

 

[417]

It failed because they picked a complete bust at #1 overall.
And they were the most abysmal team past the 1st round in maybe the history of the NHL.
It failed because they did not go in it aggressively or with a clarity of intentions.

Oh ok…got you.

Some of say they were too aggressive while others say they weren’t aggressive enough.

Makes total sense.

 

[417]

I think you are getting things twisted again… Petry was a UFA and wasn’t going to re-sign… Perron was acquired from Stl using pick and prospect, flip a couple years later trade for a first round rd pick that end up been Matt Bazral which work out great for EDM, oh no that right they traded that pick + for Griffin Reinhart (who was already a bust) probably just because the wanted to keep tanking after landing Mcdavid at 1st in the draft… No their drafting stank and that was just another bad decision and trade to try find a quick fix for their lineup…

Nah I think I got a firm grasp on things, it’s that I’m not allowing you to twist them for me.

Petry wasn’t going to re-sign, hmmmm…wonder why?

Your Perron/Barzal/Reinhart post just supports what I said lol

but ok

You keep mentioning stuff as if it is reality, framing it to serve you vision, when you clearly don’t really have any grasp on the facts.

Thank god you’re here then…

everyone understand that just making pick doesn’t guarantee anything but like we can see with Mcdavid or Matthew in Toronto that one player can make a significant difference. Edm isn’t haunted by a losing mentality their hated by all these bad decisions. trading Petry and Perron was great asset management +probably help there odd of landing Mcdavid, but than they keep sabotaging them self. not by trying to tank some more but trying to fix there roster or earlier mistake…

got it lol

 

[ole ole]

A playoff team or at the very least, a team capable of competing for the playoffs...that's something that I think can happen as soon as next year if Gorton & the GM play their cards right.


Actually, that's incorrect.

That famous letter the Rangers sent to their fans, which I always said was a whole lot of lip service, was sent on February 8th, 2018.

So we're coming up on 4 years.

Since then

2018-19 - missed the playoffs
2019-20 - made the playoffs
2020-21 - missed the playoffs but they had 60pts
2021-22 - they're currently 6th overall

So in other words, basically 2 years after telling their fans they were rebuilding, they were competitive again.

So yeah...my example works just fine.

Teams like the Arizona Coyotes and Buffalo Sabres have really fooled fans into thinking that any professional franchise would accept sucking for up to 5 years before they're ready to start competing.

Hopefully we do this rebuild right.
Who the Hell wants a team capable of competing for the playoffs. Not me.
I want a team capable of competing for the cup so i will gladly accept sucking for a few seasons to accomplish that.

 

[417]

Hopefully we do this rebuild right.
Who the Hell wants a team capable of competing for the playoffs. Not me.
I want a team capable of competing for the cup so i will gladly accept sucking for a few seasons to accomplish that.

There are steps to being a Cup contender.

You don’t just go from bottom dweller to Cup contender.

You want a team competing for the Cup, who doesn’t? Like why is this constantly repeated as though it’s some revolutionary thought.

I’m just realistic…I don’t buy this NHL 22 reality where you sell off all your vets, tank it up, simulate a couple seasons and POOF!

There you are competing for the Cup.

You’ll gladly accept sucking for a few season in order to compete for the Cup?

Sounds like a plan…

cc Oilers fans

 

[HabsCode]

More quotes from Yzerman about long-term vision, hopefully Gorton can have this kind of thinking and he's eager to accumulates picks instead of feeling the pressure in Montreal to compete as soon as next season:

When trading Athanasiou 2 years ago to Edmonton:

"We're rebuilding," Detroit general manager Steve Yzerman said. "We've got to give up something if we want to be a good team three, four, five years down the road, and somewhere along the way we're going to have to hit on some of these picks, and the only way to do it is to keep them and get more."

Got rid of Mike Green too for a 4th round pick.

By year 2 of the plan ( 2023-2024), picks can still be accumulated but I hope for more player trade as a way to start becoming more competitive, like they did for Mantha or for Ned :

"We are obviously rebuilding our organization and our team, and I felt this was an opportunity to add draft picks, but we still have to put a team on the ice," Yzerman said. "Obviously, we're trying to add draft picks and prospects to expedite the process, but we want to keep our team as competitive as possible this year and next year."

That's where guys like Drouin, Gallagher and Petry could not only fetch picks but early twenties NHL talent that are going to stay here long term.

By freeing some cap space , we could also take on some bad contracts for picks, like they did for Marc Staal.

 

[calder candidate]

Nah I think I got a firm grasp on things, it’s that I’m not allowing you to twist them for me.

Petry wasn’t going to re-sign, hmmmm…wonder why?

Your Perron/Barzal/Reinhart post just supports what I said lol

but ok


Thank god you’re here then…


got it lol

How delusional are you?
It doesn’t matter why Petry didn’t want to sign they had to manage there asset the trade wasn’t to lose it was to salvage what they could out of asset that was leaving as a UFA…

Perron/Barzal / Reinhart isn’t supporting in any way what you are saying…

First the acquire Perron using a 1st rd pick + so this would be a any tanking move while they were tanking…
Than later (not sure how many years he was in Edm) they flip him in a losing season when the season was already done and again he only one year left before leaving as UFA. They got a 1st rd pick for the upcoming draft not 2 or 3 years down the road…

than before the draft they traded the 1st they acquire plus a 2nd rd in the same draft when they were selecting Mcdavid #1 for Reinhart who was already a bust…
The worst trade of the 3 is the Reinhart it isn’t even close regardless of NYI selecting Barzal.
That move wasn’t done to tank…

EDM are not
a winning team not because the have a losing mindset the have got nothing out of the draft besides the 1st rd pick and even than they missed on of them, and they follow that up with some bad trade and signing… wasting a year isn’t ideal but it is a lot better than wasting a career.

 

[Adam Michaels]

According to LeBrun, the Panthers are one of the teams that are interested in Chiarot.

 

[vokiel]

According to LeBrun, the Panthers are one of the teams that are interested in Chiarot.

He also added among other contenders as well. Maybe ~10 teams will be after him.

 

[MrNasty]

More quotes from Yzerman about long-term vision, hopefully Gorton can have this kind of thinking and he's eager to accumulates picks instead of feeling the pressure in Montreal to compete as soon as next season:

When trading Athanasiou 2 years ago to Edmonton:

"We're rebuilding," Detroit general manager Steve Yzerman said. "We've got to give up something if we want to be a good team three, four, five years down the road, and somewhere along the way we're going to have to hit on some of these picks, and the only way to do it is to keep them and get more."

Got rid of Mike Green too for a 4th round pick.

By year 2 of the plan ( 2023-2024), picks can still be accumulated but I hope for more player trade as a way to start becoming more competitive, like they did for Mantha or for Ned :

"We are obviously rebuilding our organization and our team, and I felt this was an opportunity to add draft picks, but we still have to put a team on the ice," Yzerman said. "Obviously, we're trying to add draft picks and prospects to expedite the process, but we want to keep our team as competitive as possible this year and next year."

That's where guys like Drouin, Gallagher and Petry could not only fetch picks but early twenties NHL talent that are going to stay here long term.

By freeing some cap space , we could to take on some bad contracts for picks, like they did for Marc Staal.

MB said the same things. That is standard quotes. More draft picks more chances. Add veterans to stay competitive and influence prospects. The second part he was vilified for.

According to LeBrun, the Panthers are one of the teams that are interested in Chiarot.

Lundell is the only prospect I like. Maybe Sourdif.
And they don't have a pick til the 3rd round.

 

[HabsCode]

MB said the same things. That is standard quotes. More draft picks more chances. Add veterans to stay competitive and influence prospects. The second part he was vilified for.


Lundell is the only prospect I like. Maybe Sourdif.
And they don't have a pick til the 3rd round.

If Habs actually had proper amateur scouting and development, his strategy might have worked. Couple that with not rushing Kotkaniemi and ending up with a higher pick than Caufield in 2019 (might have been Zegras or Seider instead) and it's another game. Kotkaniemi is finally showing some of his potential in Carolina and had a good rookie season here in Montreal, something went wrong with his development.

His problems were rushing the rebuild, poor long-term planning and having a bad scouting staff. Last season was a panic reaction to a mismanaged roster.

What else is there to try, other than sell vets and aquire picks and prospect to build mainly through the draft/young NHL talent aquired via trades? Retools have failed in atrocious manner in the past for this team, I hope they employ a different strategy this time.

 

[ole ole]

There are steps to being a Cup contender.

You don’t just go from bottom dweller to Cup contender.

You want a team competing for the Cup, who doesn’t? Like why is this constantly repeated as though it’s some revolutionary thought.

I’m just realistic…I don’t buy this NHL 22 reality where you sell off all your vets, tank it up, simulate a couple seasons and POOF!

There you are competing for the Cup.

You’ll gladly accept sucking for a few season in order to compete for the Cup?

Sounds like a plan…

cc Oilers fans

We have been doing what your suggesting for the last 10 yrs. Where did that get us? Oh a few playoff games.
So instead keep our vets ,hope for some of our prospect to grow so we can have a shot at making the playoff while getting mid rd picks which won't help us become Cup contenders.
It seems you would be happy with a team being able to always make the playoffs and not have any realistic shot at the cup.
Me i'd rather do a complete rebuild so we can become Cup contender sometime in the future instead of your playoff contender.

 

[MrNasty]

If Habs actually had proper amateur scouting and development, his strategy might have worked. Couple that with not rushing Kotkaniemi and ending up with a higher pick than Caufield in 2019 (might have been Zegras or Seider instead) and it's another game. Kotkaniemi is finally showing some of his potential in Carolina and had a good rookie season here in Montreal, something went wrong with his development.

His problems were rushing the rebuild, poor long-term planning and having a bad scouting staff. Last season was a panic reaction to a mismanaged roster.

What else is there to try, other than sell vets and aquire picks and prospect to build mainly through the draft/young NHL talent aquired via trades? Retools have failed in atrocious manner in the past for this team, I hope they employ a different strategy this time.

I am not disagreeing that we need to trade off assets....just saying the strategy that Yzermans is praised for in those quotes were the same that MB tried.
I also agree development was the main problem and caving to fans & media to rush prospects.

It is the flavour of the day. The same posters (me included) that say we developed poorly are the same ones freaking out last year that we played Staal and Gustafsson in the playoffs instead of KK and Romanov.

 

[HabsCode]

Beats what you want. Picking in the 16-29 range does nothing for our team. It seems you would be happy with a team being able to always make the playoffs nut have no realistic shot at the cup. Me i'd rather do a complete rebuild so we can become Cup contender instead of your playoff contender.

Agreed. But I would say some top 5 pick are enough if you draft well here and there, but yes, you need 1 or 2 top 3 pick.

That's how most bad teams get out of their basement-dwelling for the most part (cumulate some high picks and/or first rounder a couple of season in a row and rebuild their core), unless you are called the New York Rangers and franchises type player like Panarin and Fox forces themselves into your line-up (see upcoming teams on the rise like Florida, Colorado, Detroit, Carolina, Toronto, and the obvious cup winners of the last decades like Pitt, Chi, Tampa bay, etc.)

 

[ole ole]

Agreed. But I would say some top 5 pick are enough if you draft well here and there, but yes, you need 1 or 2 top 3 pick.

That's how most bad teams get out of their basement-dwelling for the most part (cumulate some high picks and/or first rounder a couple of season in a row and rebuild their core), unless you are called the New York Rangers and franchises type player like Panarin and Fox forces themselves into your line-up (see upcoming teams on the rise like Florida, Colorado, Detroit, Carolina, Toronto, and the obvious cup winners of the last decades like Pitt, Chi, Tampa bay, etc.)

Well we should get a top 3 pick this season and if we trade off some of our vets it's more than likely we get a top 3 pick next season.
That along with the youngsters we have would be a great start of becoming a good team again.

This BS of holding on to our vets so we can try to make the playoffs next season is purely foolish and will only push us farther away from becoming true contenders.

 

[sampollock]

MB said the same things. That is standard quotes. More draft picks more chances. Add veterans to stay competitive and influence prospects. The second part he was vilified for.


Lundell is the only prospect I like. Maybe Sourdif.
And they don't have a pick til the 3rd round.

Top prospect and a 2nd in 2023

 

[Vachon23]

Florida dosen’t seems to be a good fit for a trade involving Chairot

 

[vokiel]

Florida dosen’t seems to be a good fit for a trade involving Chairot

Could ask for their 2023 first. Stack them up, make a splash for Bedard.

 

[TomKosto]

We are not getting a prospect like Lundell for a Ben Chiarot! Maybe a 2nd + b level prospect or a late first if there's an overbid.

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

I really think, it's time to think to trade Price, for some good draft picks, hopefully a first round pick.

 

[417]

How delusional are you?
It doesn’t matter why Petry didn’t want to sign they had to manage there asset the trade wasn’t to lose it was to salvage what they could out of asset that was leaving as a UFA…

You clearly don’t know what happened with Petry and McTavish and that loser organization called the Oilers.

That’s really the delusion

Perron/Barzal / Reinhart isn’t supporting in any way what you are saying…

First the acquire Perron using a 1st rd pick + so this would be a any tanking move while they were tanking…
Than later (not sure how many years he was in Edm) they flip him in a losing season when the season was already done and again he only one year left before leaving as UFA. They got a 1st rd pick for the upcoming draft not 2 or 3 years down the road…

than before the draft they traded the 1st they acquire plus a 2nd rd in the same draft when they were selecting Mcdavid #1 for Reinhart who was already a bust…
The worst trade of the 3 is the Reinhart it isn’t even close regardless of NYI selecting Barzal.
That move wasn’t done to tank

I don’t even understand the bolded…as for Reinhart, the problem wasn’t necessarily the problem was the trade target.

They needed help on D…they used draft picks to try to address it, because you know, a decade + of losing leaves marks at every level of your organization.

I don’t know what’s wrong with that concept though, it’s the execution that went wrong.

EDM are not
a winning team not because the have a losing mindset the have got nothing out of the draft besides the 1st rd pick and even than they missed on of them, and they follow that up with some bad trade and signing… wasting a year isn’t ideal but it is a lot better than wasting a career.

That’s your opinion…I think they’ve gotten accustomed to losing and believing high picks fix everything.

The exact same lottery fetish you have.

 

[417]

We have been doing what your suggesting for the last 10 yrs. Where did that get us? Oh a few playoff games.

That’s odd because I didn’t suggest a damn thing other than I don’t want to support a program of losing,
.

So instead keep our vets ,hope for some of our prospect to grow so we can have a shot at making the playoff while getting mid rd picks which won't help us become Cup contenders.
It seems you would be happy with a team being able to always make the playoffs and not have any realistic shot at the cup.
Me i'd rather do a complete rebuild so we can become Cup contender sometime in the future instead of your playoff contender.

you can keep making things up and attributing them to me, it doesn’t make it reality though.

 

[sampollock]

Petry back to the oil maybe?

 

[vokiel]

I really think, it's time to think to trade Price, for some good draft picks, hopefully a first round pick.

Goaltenders are rarely traded for anything worthwhile and given Carey Price's contract, I doubt this changes from now to the TDL,