Well it can be said Huberdeau was a long term project too.
He was a beanpole, he wasn’t physically ready…but their patience paid off.
Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61
- Thread starter Lshap
- Start date
- Status
He was a beanpole, he wasn’t physically ready…but their patience paid off.
danyhabsfan
Registered User
Hins77
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2013
- 4,057
- 3,725
Huberdeau first year : 31 pts in 48 games. 0,64 ppg
Second year : 28 in 69. 0,4ppg
Third year : 54 pts in 79 0,68 ppg
Kk : 1st year : 34 pts in 79. 0,43 ppg
2nd year : 8 pts in 36 games. 0,22 ppg
3rd year : 20 pts in 56. 0,35 ppg
Both players had difficulty during their second season. I would prefer to compare Huberdeau to Nick Suzuki instead of KK. I remember. Huberdeau was playing a lots of minutes on a bad team and he wasnt that bad defensively and able to score. In montreal. The moment KK was playing more minutes, he been exposed and mistake after mistake were coming. KK is going to be 3rd line centermAn in this league. Nothing more
I’m aware…he played 1 in the after he was drafted, the next he split the season between the Q and the NHL because of the lockout.
calder candidate
Registered User
the league changing the playoff format, to squeeze us in the playoff doesn’t change the fact that we were not a playoff team. +losing Danault, KK, Weber, Tatar, Perry and *Price this team isn’t progressing even with Price…
Edm or any team that keep losing just don’t have enough talent or depth, they aren’t hitting in the draft getting Yakupov vs. Mcdavid is not going to yield the same results, also most of the mistake / sabotage happen trying to speed up the process not trying to tank. It isn’t the losing that bring more losing it is the fact that it a bad team to start with and it isn’t improving fast enough or other team are improving faster or at the same rate…
How did they try to speed up their process
Because they signed Andrej Sekera one year and Milan Lucic the other?
From 2009 to 2016, the Edmonton Oilers picked from anywhere from 1st to 10th...that's 8 top picks (including 4 #1 picks), the kind of run that that the fetish tankers here only dare dream about.
What success did they have from there?
You're suggesting it failed because they tried to speed up their process?
OK...how??? lol how did they try to do this?
I mean strictly from a pts vs games played, they were actually fairly successful at the draft but that never materialized into team success.
Why?
Last edited:
sampollock
Registered User
HabsCode
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2019
- 3,304
- 3,927
They did had some bad trades though.
Traded Petry for nothing.
Traded David Perron.
Larsson for Hall setted them back, while they god rid of Schultz for a 3 round pick.
This team wasn't handled well. Then McDavid and Draistal turned into absolute monster in 2018-2019 and now they are slowly turning things around.
But yes, they aren't the poster-child for a successful tank story.
Hmmm...you getting my point now? orrr....?
They traded Petry, Perron for draft picks...the point was just to get worse. There was no thought put into supporting the current roster and making sure not to erode the talent to a point where all of these young players would drown.
Those trades weren't done with the plan of speeding up their rebuild...it was done to make them worse so they could stockpile more picks.
Loser mentality.
CHfan1
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 8,123
- 9,476
I think the Oilers failed for multiple reasons (some that the Habs can learn from).
They were unlucky to have top picks in years where there wasn’t franchise level talent. Yakupov was a bust, RNH is a good complementary player as is Hall and Eberle. It took them quite a few years of sucking to get Draisaitl and McDavid.
They also made a lot of bad moves that turned the franchise back. Signing Lucic, trading a 1st (turned into Barzal) and 2nd for Griffin Reinhart, trading Eberle for what eventually turned into nothing, Hall for Larsson, believing Koskinen was their answer at goalie and signing him long term. That was a lot of bad moves in a short period of time.
It’s a lesson that it takes more than franchise talent and high draft picks to make a team better (which I believe is your point). They have to be surrounded better and sometimes a team has to be lucky the year(s) they draft high. But getting franchise level talent is a big part of the equation in building a contender, often found through the draft.
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
They traded Petry for futures during the McDavid tank year when they would have been way better off keeping him. But hey, considering how Petry is still shitting on Edmonton's loser culture six years after the trade, I can imagine he was smiling when he heard the news.
HabsCode
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2019
- 3,304
- 3,927
Petry when traded was 27, Hall was 25, Perron was 26.
I'm not advocating trading players this age (Anderson, Evans, etc), as far as I'm aware.
I'm advocating trading anchor contract such as Price, Gallagher and Petry, guys on the wrong side of 30 (like Chiarot, Allen) or broken like #11, which will realistically be really hard.
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
'Slowly turning things around?'
How? They still suck and don't look anywhere near like a Cup threat despite having drafted the best player in the league six years ago. They're currently collapsing after a hot start.
- Jun 24, 2012
- 85,290
- 156,277
C’mon, no one knows that with any degree of certainty. There are people in the business of evaluating and projecting players and they would never make categorical statements like that. He’s a developing 22-year old who has been rushed and mismanaged. Circle back a few years from now and we’ll see if you were right.
HabsCode
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2019
- 3,304
- 3,927
They aren't bottom feeders anymore and have shown some sign of life the past two seasons. They are now competing for playoff spots. That's slowly turning things around, never said they were cup contender.
And I specifically said they weren't a good example of a tanking team. I'm not one to argue that the Habs should be bottom-feeders for 5 years, I said 2-3 elite young players is enough. The things is that Edmonton took a long time to get those and traded one of them away (Hall) while he was still in his prime.
sampollock
Registered User
It's less about the who...and more of the concept of just focusing on stacking up draft picks.
Weltschmerz
Front Running Fan
- Apr 22, 2007
- 5,334
- 3,505
He was an UFA to be, maybe he made it clear he won't sign there an extension?
- Jun 24, 2012
- 85,290
- 156,277
Not a bad place to be, considering the last 10 years.
To have on board an executive of Gorton’s quality is no small feet. Of course, it all rests on how much latitude ownership will give him to do his job.
calder candidate
Registered User
Edm they got like 10 NHL player (out off 65 pick) half of them are now playing with the other team and 4 players have 99% of these pts point. If that is successful I can see why you think Mtl is a playoff team…
If they were not successful was it because the all off the trying to tank and losing mentally that they keep losing or were they just god damn awful made a bunch of bad decision, draft, trade and signing… any only got saved by Mcdavid.
SOLR
Registered User
It failed because they picked a complete bust at #1 overall.
And they were the most abysmal team past the 1st round in maybe the history of the NHL.
It failed because they did not go in it aggressively or with a clarity of intentions.
calder candidate
Registered User
I think you are getting things twisted again… Petry was a UFA and wasn’t going to re-sign… Perron was acquired from Stl using pick and prospect, flip a couple years later trade for a first round rd pick that end up been Matt Bazral which work out great for EDM, oh no that right they traded that pick + for Griffin Reinhart (who was already a bust) probably just because the wanted to keep tanking after landing Mcdavid at 1st in the draft… No their drafting stank and that was just another bad decision and trade to try find a quick fix for their lineup…
You keep mentioning stuff as if it is reality, framing it to serve you vision, when you clearly don’t really have any grasp on the facts.
everyone understand that just making pick doesn’t guarantee anything but like we can see with Mcdavid or Matthew in Toronto that one player can make a significant difference. Edm isn’t haunted by a losing mentality their hated by all these bad decisions. trading Petry and Perron was great asset management +probably help there odd of landing Mcdavid, but than they keep sabotaging them self. not by trying to tank some more but trying to fix there roster or earlier mistake…
Last edited:
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
The problem with this team was that it gutted itself after the SC finals.
We lost Price, Weber, Danault, Tatar, Edmundson, KK but MB was slow and incompetent with his response and picked up Dvorak, Hoffman, Perreault, Paquette, Brooks and Niku. One month into the season MB was quoted as saying he didn't understand the team's terrible start. In my books that simple statement was reason enough to fire him on the spot. His centermen corps was decimated, he lost two key d-men and his star goalie. You compound that with the slew of injuries and Covid protocol absences and you get your 2021-22 Habs team.
Normally, I'm vehemently against blowing up the team. But I've changed my tune with this team. Price and Weber are either gone for good or will never attain their old form. I may have mentioned it when the trade went down but I didn't and don't think Dvorak wants to be here. Although I wasn't a KK fan he slotted well as the 3rd center on this team. I still think Tatar is better for the team than Hoffman and that leaves Edmundson, maybe he'll eventually return to his old form. You compound that with Chiarot becoming a UFA and you got huge, huge holes that can't be filled by trades and or signings without creating other holes and problems. And to add more gasoline to this tire fire next year all our "remaining" veterans will be a year older.
I"m all for a fire sale. Sell all players older than 25-26. And yes that includes Drouin. But I would trade them for picks, prospects and young NHLers. This fire sale should start with this upcoming trade deadline carry over into the summer and work its way into next year's deadline and summer. Gorton should get us at least four more first-round picks within the next two drafts, plus a few more second-rounders. This year is a loss. No news there. Next year (22-23) will be a total loss also. Maybe we'll make the playoffs the following year (23-24) if Gorton and the new GM are able to make some shrewd pick-ups.
Otherwise, if we go for a re-set or re-tool or simply a renovation, we will be stranded at the bottom of the league for the next decade.
We lost Price, Weber, Danault, Tatar, Edmundson, KK but MB was slow and incompetent with his response and picked up Dvorak, Hoffman, Perreault, Paquette, Brooks and Niku. One month into the season MB was quoted as saying he didn't understand the team's terrible start. In my books that simple statement was reason enough to fire him on the spot. His centermen corps was decimated, he lost two key d-men and his star goalie. You compound that with the slew of injuries and Covid protocol absences and you get your 2021-22 Habs team.
Normally, I'm vehemently against blowing up the team. But I've changed my tune with this team. Price and Weber are either gone for good or will never attain their old form. I may have mentioned it when the trade went down but I didn't and don't think Dvorak wants to be here. Although I wasn't a KK fan he slotted well as the 3rd center on this team. I still think Tatar is better for the team than Hoffman and that leaves Edmundson, maybe he'll eventually return to his old form. You compound that with Chiarot becoming a UFA and you got huge, huge holes that can't be filled by trades and or signings without creating other holes and problems. And to add more gasoline to this tire fire next year all our "remaining" veterans will be a year older.
I"m all for a fire sale. Sell all players older than 25-26. And yes that includes Drouin. But I would trade them for picks, prospects and young NHLers. This fire sale should start with this upcoming trade deadline carry over into the summer and work its way into next year's deadline and summer. Gorton should get us at least four more first-round picks within the next two drafts, plus a few more second-rounders. This year is a loss. No news there. Next year (22-23) will be a total loss also. Maybe we'll make the playoffs the following year (23-24) if Gorton and the new GM are able to make some shrewd pick-ups.
Otherwise, if we go for a re-set or re-tool or simply a renovation, we will be stranded at the bottom of the league for the next decade.
Last edited:
HabsCode
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2019
- 3,304
- 3,927
As far as Price goes, I was all for trading him even if I know he is a fierce competitor and might get back to shape sooner than we think once he get back in the game, but his contract his going to be hard to move and I doubt Molson will allow Gorton to retain on 3 big contract (Price, Petry, Gallagher). Maybe he will go LTIR. I think he truly screw our rebuilding process since he is so good that he turns this team from a bottom feeder to a bubble team, but unless we take a long-term big contract dump it's going to be hard to convince a NHL team into picking him up. It could be good to keep him for leadership reason.
It's going to be hard to unload all those vets, but if they want to proceed that way, they could make it work by:
2021-2022:
- Trading Chiarot (UFA) with retention
- Trading Allen (1.5 year left contract)
Relieve Paquette of his duties. Might keep Perreault if he accept a discount and he is healthy.
Bet on Gallagher coming back before the end of the season end going back to form around mid 2022-2023. Bet Jonathan Drouin has a respectable begin of 2022-2023 season
2022-2023:
- Trade Gallagher at trade deadline to show case him (30% retention, 4.25 years left that's around 10 M$ money loss)
- Trade Drouin (UFA) to contender a trade deadline
- Trade Jeff Petry with retention ( around 25% retention, 2.5 years left, so around 4.5M$ loss total)
- Trade Byron(UFA) with 33% retention (1M$ loss)
So that around 16M$ retention over the span of 4.5 year which should be tolerable and over 17M$ of cap space over the long term gained. We could get a couple of 1st and 2nd round pick and/or prosect with those traded assets.
You still get to keep payers like Toffoli, Anderson, Perreault, Dvorak, Savard, Edmunson, Lekhonen and Hoffman and Armia (because the two last one are going to be hard to move too), so the team isn't completely dismantled. Savard, Hoffman and Armia could be moved by 2023-2024 if we get a bunch of prospect pool in the pipes that can take on those roles.
You hope Caufield, Suzuki, Romanov , Evans and Poehling are ready for more responsability. You hope some of Ghule, Norlinder or Harris can join the team. Primeau takes on the role of Allen, RHP or Vedj fills in for Gallagher and one of Ylonen or Dauphin replace Drouin.
It leaves money to sign guys like Caufield, Poehling, Romanov, Primeau next summer and to pay Suzuki his big contract. We might still have 2-3M$ to sign a UFA vets for some leadership or take on a stagnating player else where that needs a fresh start.
This team probably won't be competitive in 2022-2023, but if done right, it would allow us to build a good prospect pool by 2023-2024 and build that core for long-term success. Highly doubt we move all those guys thought, that's a lot of roster movement.
Last edited:
- Status
