HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Habby4Life]

They were 18 and “developed” under terrible coaches.

Apples and oranges.

What do you think they’ll put up points wise?

20? 30? How many do they have to put up for you to feel like we’ve got a second line?

They were rushed and put into positions they couldn’t handle and it didn’t help their development one bit. Things might have been different if they were put in a situation they could handle, learn, and had some success.

Why are you so hooked on points?

Like I said before Bunting could put up 50 (he has), Drouin has and I wouldn’t want either of them on the second line. It’s a combination of their output, physicality, d-zone, size, etc. I want a second line that’s difficult to play against and can produce.

We will have a second line if Dach pans out, Demidov is for real, and KH can acquire a true top 6 until then a poor man’s second line.

Will be interesting to see how this take ages over the next 10months, in particular for Newhook.

My guess is that you'll be eating some hefty crow

not worried about it at all, lol.

 

[DAChampion]

Health is a wildcard but if they're healthy, that second line will put up 140 cummutive points if they're together.

It's completely irrational to assume that there won't be any injuries among the top six.

Typical man games lost to injury NHL wide is around 150 per team, so the typical player loses 10% of his games to injury.

Though you're assuming that the alleged top six will play 492 total games, we expect them to play 453 games, for 49 games where somebody else covers in the top six. In the case of the Habs, it's worse than that, because Newhook drops to the third line if one of Evans or Dvorak is injured, so the expected man games lost rises to 64 games.

64 games -- basically a full season of Laine or Dach in a good year.

That's why a good team needs seven top six forwards.

 

[Habby4Life]

It's completely irrational to assume that there won't be any injuries among the top six.

Typical man games lost to injury NHL wide is around 150 per team, so the typical player loses 10% of his games to injury.

Though you're assuming that the alleged top six will play 492 total games, we expect them to play 453 games, for 49 games where somebody else covers in the top six. In the case of the Habs, it's worse than that, because Newhook drops to the third line if one of Evans or Dvorak is injured, so the expected man games lost rises to 64 games.

64 games -- basically a full season of Laine or Dach in a good year.

That's why a good team needs seven top six forwards.

A good line is more than just points. Don’t get why he’s hooked on a 140pts. It’s their overall all game. Some guys are more difficult to play against than others. Lots of blah guys get 50 pts and I wouldn’t want them on the second line.

There is depth is very poor.

 

[sampollock]

This board needs a trade so we can break it down and rant or rave over the deal that KH made

 

[Wateredgarden]

They were 18 and “developed” under terrible coaches.

Apples and oranges.

What do you think they’ll put up points wise?

20? 30? How many do they have to put up for you to feel like we’ve got a second line?

Newhook had more than that in 54 games battling injuries. You think he will regress?

 

[DAChampion]

A good line is more than just points. Don’t get why he’s hooked on a 140pts. It’s their overall all game. Some guys are more difficult to play against than others. Lots of blah guys get 50 pts and I wouldn’t want them on the second line.

Yes, that's a good point. None of them have the defensive play a second line needs.

I think that Newhook - Dach - Roy has the potential to be a good second line on a contender --- in 2027. They're obviously not there yet. And that's ok. The team needs experienced second liners to insulate the future middle six.

 

[Habby4Life]

Yes, that's a good point. None of them have the defensive play a second line needs.

I think that Newhook - Dach - Roy has the potential to be a good second line on a contender --- in 2027. They're obviously not there yet. And that's ok. The team needs experienced second liners to insulate the future middle six.

A true contender needs depth.

If KH got a top 6 and that consisted of Slaf, CC, NS, Dach, Demidov and a trade. This would mean even if Newhook, Roy and whoever is the third, you have the pieces to adjust and really make it hard for a team to match lines, now they have something.

Depth is the key, so is style of play, we just saw the panthers physicality, skill and depth was too much to handle, and now they have the cup.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They were rushed and put into positions they couldn’t handle and it didn’t help their development one bit. Things might have been different if they were put in a situation they could handle, learn, and had some success.

They were 18 and served under brutal coaching. It's a completely different situation. Stop trying to equate 18 year olds with 21 and 23 year olds. And Therrien sure as hell is not Martin St Louis.

Why are you so hooked on points?

I'm trying to determine if you're a serious poster or not.

There are a group of posters who come on here, say everything's shit and then don't back it up when challenged. They aren't to be taken seriously. They are trolls looking for a reaction.

Want to be taken seriously? Back up what you say. You think he'll be shit? Okay... what do you think he's going to do? How many points? Do you think his possession numbers will suck too? This is not a trick question. It's not a gotcha question. Either you think he's shit and will do 25 points or you don't and are trying to get a reaction.

I have zero problem with negative posters. Nobody was more negative than me here for years. But when people asked why I was negative I gave them a straight answer. I didn't duck quesitons and I said what I thought. Sometimes I was wrong... and that's okay. Everyone's wrong sometimes. No big deal. I was wrong on Caufield last year. Thought he'd do 50. Didn't factor in the injury... my mistake. Now I've revised based on past performace. I figure he'll score around 35. We'll see.

If you come in here, say they suck and then won't tell us what you think they're going to do, then it's hard to take you seriously. So I'll ask again... what do you think these guys will do points wise?

Like I said before Bunting could put up 50 (he has), Drouin has and I wouldn’t want either of them on the second line. It’s a combination of their output, physicality, d-zone, size, etc. I want a second line that’s difficult to play against and can produce.

We will have a second line if Dach pans out, Demidov is for real, and KH can acquire a true top 6 until then a poor man’s second line.

not worried about it at all, lol.

Stop dodging and stop telling us why you can't answer the question. Yes you can. If you think he'll suck then it should be no problem for you to tell us he's going to score 25 or 30 points. So what is it?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes, that's a good point. None of them have the defensive play a second line needs.

?????

How is Dach not a two way player? Come on.

I think that Newhook - Dach - Roy has the potential to be a good second line on a contender --- in 2027. They're obviously not there yet. And that's ok. The team needs experienced second liners to insulate the future middle six.

No we don't.

And I think they're going to prove it.

 

[Habby4Life]

They were 18 and served under brutal coaching. It's a completely different situation.

I'm trying to determine if you're a serious poster or not.

There are a group of posters who come on here, say everything's shit and then don't back it up when challenged. They aren't to be taken seriously. They are trolls looking for a reaction.

Want to be taken seriously? Back up what you say. You think he'll be shit? Okay... what do you think he's going to do? How many points? Do you think his possession numbers will suck too? This is not a trick question. It's not a gotcha question. Either you think he's shit and will do 25 points or you don't and are trying to get a reaction.

I have zero problem with negative posters. Nobody was more negative than me here for years. But when people asked why I was negative I gave them a straight answer. I didn't duck quesitons and I said what I thought. Sometimes I was wrong... and that's okay. Everyone's wrong sometimes. No big deal. I was wrong on Caufield last year. Thought he'd do 50. Didn't factor in the injury... my mistake. Now I've revised based on past performace. I figure he'll score around 35. We'll see.

If you come in here, say they suck and then won't tell us what you think they're going to do, then it's hard to take you seriously. So I'll ask again... what do you think these guys will do points wise?


Stop dodging and stop telling us why you can't answer the question. Yes you can. If you think he'll suck then it should be no problem for you to tell us he's going to score 25 or 30 points. So what is it?

Are you ok?

I just answered your question, in fact multiple times. Ain’t my problem if you have struggle with comprehension, lol. “. It’s a combination of their output, physicality, d-zone, size, etc. I want a second line that’s difficult to play against and can produce.”

Back to points, lol. Who the F knows how many points, ffs, so many factors come into play. No one called anyone shit, I said they aren’t legit top 6 and they aren’t just yet.

I know you have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you and if you must, put on your ignore list, please do, I could do without your condescending know it all bs.

Serious enough for you?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

A true contender needs depth.

If KH got a top 6 and that consisted of Slaf, CC, NS, Dach, Demidov and a trade. This would mean even if Newhook, Roy and whoever is the third, you have the pieces to adjust and really make it hard for a team to match lines, now they have something.

Depth is the key, so is style of play, we just saw the panthers physicality, skill and depth was too much to handle, and now they have the cup.

We aren't contenders. Nobody is claiming we are.

Depth is on it's way.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Are you ok?

I just answered your question, in fact multiple times. Ain’t my problem if you have struggle with comprehension, lol. “. It’s a combination of their output, physicality, d-zone, size, etc. I want a second line that’s difficult to play against and can produce.”

You did not answer my question. You dodged it.

"It's a combination of.... blah, blah, blah..."

Answer the question.

Back to points, lol. Who the F knows how many points, ffs, so many factors come into play. No one called anyone shit, I said they aren’t legit top 6 and they aren’t just yet.

?

You have repeatedly called it a SHIT second line.

If it's shit, what do you expect them to produce?

How can we really have a conversation about the top six if you're not willing to tell us what you think they're going to produce? If you think they're all going to get 80 points each for example, I'm going to ask why you think that sucks. If you think it's going to produce 20 points each I'm going to ask why you think they'll produce so low.

I've told you what I think they'll do. What do you think they'll do?

I know you have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you and if you must, put on your ignore list, please do, I could do without your condescending know it all bs.

I don't have any problem with people who disagree with me. I've disagreed with every single person on this board at one time or another. But not all posters are created equally. Some defend their points and are straight up in a debate. @Whitesnake for example has had numberous debates with me. We've disagreed on tons of stuff. But everyone respects the guy because he's straight up. Great poster. Whether you agree with a poster or not is beside the point. The whole point of this place is to go back and forth on things. That's all well and good.

I do however, have a problem with posters who don't back up what they say. I have a problem when people make bold declaraions and then won't back it up. Those posters aren't to be taken seriously.

You were askeda straightfoward question. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to provide an answer. And guess what... if you're wrong, it's no big deal. All you'll have to do is say you're wrong down the road. That's no biggie. Everyone is wrong sometimes.

 

[Habby4Life]

You did not answer my question. You dodged it.

"It's a combination of.... blah, blah, blah..."

Answer the question.

?

You have repeatedly called it a SHIT second line.

If it's shit, what do you expect them to produce?

I don't have any problem with people who disagree with me. I've disagreed with every single person on this board at one time or another. But not all posters are created equally. Some defend their points and are straight up in a debate. Whether you agree with a poster or not is beside the point. The whole point of this place is to go back and forth on things. That's all well and good.

I do however, have a problem with posters who don't back up what they say. I have a problem when people make bold declaraions and then won't back it up. Those posters aren't to be taken seriously.

I’m crushed, “You have a problem”, hahaha.

Add me to your ignore list, and spare me your condescending bs diatribe.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’m crushed, “You have a problem”, hahaha.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

 

[Habby4Life]

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Me too!

 

[eklund the clown]

Sometimes the board gets way too serious like we are discussing the end of the world .

 

[sampollock]

Sometimes the board gets way too serious like we are discussing the end of the world .

Opinions are just that

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Opinions are just that

Not all opinions are equal.

"Tie Domi is better than Wayne Gretzky"

"Okay, back that up"

(Crickets)

 

[sampollock]

Not all opinions are equal.

"Tie Domi is better than Wayne Gretzky"

"Okay, back that up"

(Crickets)

Opinions are just that within reason of course

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Opinions are just that within reason of course

Right. And it's how you defend it that matters.

Hey, if you think our 2nd line sucks and we need to fix it... cool. But say why. Give a ballpark as to how you think the line will produce. If you can't do that then how the hell is there a conversation?

Either the poster thinks they'll do 80 points each and doesn't understand what a second line looks like or they think they'll all do 25 in which case I'm going to ask them to back up why. There's no answer though. Only "THAT LINE SUCKS! If we have that we'll be bottom five!" Okay...

 

[Habby4Life]

KH should offer Calgary’s first for PL and see where it goes. With the conditions it will most likely be Florida’s (a late first). Immediately makes the top 6 a lot better. Small risk, huge reward. PL has a lot to prove, right age, term, size and past. I won’t predict numbers because I’m not Carnac but I think he will have a good year after escaping Columbus.

2025 - CC - NS - Slaf - Dach, Dem, and PL. This is a good combination of skill and size.

That’s a solid top 6, add Newhook, Roy, whoever, and that’s a deep top 9. Lots of room to move guys around and let them develop.

So far KH has done a good job but this was the easy part, now he has to add using his assets. This is the tricky part

 

[NeptunesTrident]

I think they need a number 2 Center. Dach can’t stay healthy and the team only has 1 scoring line which makes it too easy to shut the offense down. They want to trade for Laine…fine but they aren’t addressing the problem. It’s not the wing; it’s the guy setting up the wing. My 2 cents.

 

[Miller Time]

Yes, that's a good point. None of them have the defensive play a second line needs.

I think that Newhook - Dach - Roy has the potential to be a good second line on a contender --- in 2027. They're obviously not there yet. And that's ok. The team needs experienced second liners to insulate the future middle six.

I think you're underrating Newhook's overall game, or underestimating the progress shown last year (even more impressive considering the injury & that he was playing his best 200ft hockey when he came back and being used at C).

Roy, totally agree that at least another 2-3 seasons is more likely before he's at an above average top 6 level (if he gets there at all).

But Dach & Newhook? If healthy, I'll be surprised if they aren't firmly middle tier top 6 contributors, if not better. The talent is there, the commitment to improving is there... No reason to doubt that they'll both be considerably better than they were last season (in Dach's case, I know we only had pre season + 1 game, but the level he was playing at certainly looked like a step forward from how he played in year one... I expect a similar jump this fall, despite the injury).

 

[Habby4Life]

I think they need a number 2 Center. Dach can’t stay healthy and the team only has 1 scoring line which makes it too easy to shut the offense down. They want to trade for Laine…fine but they aren’t addressing the problem. It’s not the wing; it’s the guy setting up the wing. My 2 cents.

Dach is certainly the wildcard. He really needs to play the whole season

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

KH should offer Calgary’s first for PL and see where it goes. With the conditions it will most likely be Florida’s (a late first). Immediately makes the top 6 a lot better. Small risk, huge reward. PL has a lot to prove, right age, term, size and past. I won’t predict numbers because I’m not Carnac but I think he will have a good year after escaping Columbus.

2025 - CC - NS - Slaf - Dach, Dem, and PL. This is a good combination of skill and size.

That’s a solid top 6, add Newhook, Roy, whoever, and that’s a deep top 9. Lots of room to move guys around and let them develop.

So far KH has done a good job but this was the easy part, now he has to add using his assets. This is the tricky part

There is no way to know where Calgary's pick will be. And there is no way to know if Laine will be anything. Does he care more about Fortnite than hockey? Who knows? Will he take a year to get over his injury? I am doubtful HuGo trades a 1st for magic beans. Maybe for a Necas or Zegras.