HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[NeptunesTrident]

Dach is certainly the wildcard. He really needs to play the whole season

100% agree.

 

[Habby4Life]

There is no way to know where Calgary's pick will be. And there is no way to know if Laine will be anything. Does he care more about Fortnite than hockey? Who knows? Will he take a year to get over his injury? I am doubtful HuGo trades a 1st for magic beans. Maybe for a Necas or Zegras.

At worst for the habs it is 11th ova, they can always put conditions on it to protect it.

Magic beans, hardly.

 

[Habs]

At worst for the habs it is 11th ova, they can always put conditions on it to protect it.

Magic beans, hardly.

think we get Florida's pick no matter what at this point

 

[Habby4Life]

think we get Florida's pick no matter what at this point

Yeah, me too, that’s why I’d be willing to move it for Laine.

 

[Habs]

There is no way to know where Calgary's pick will be. And there is no way to know if Laine will be anything. Does he care more about Fortnite than hockey? Who knows? Will he take a year to get over his injury? I am doubtful HuGo trades a 1st for magic beans. Maybe for a Necas or Zegras.

Necas signed today, so the list of NHL players he could have added dropped to Laine or Zegras at this point

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

At worst for the habs it is 11th ova, they can always put conditions on it to protect it.

Magic beans, hardly.

No way to know if Laine will be able to contribute next year. Since we aren't even sure of the terms of the Florida pick no way to know if it will even be a 2025 pick.

 

[Habs]

Yeah, me too, that’s why I’d be willing to move it for Laine.

I'd probably do that in a second , but I want McGroarty too

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Necas signed today, so the list of NHL players he could have added dropped to Laine or Zegras at this point

Not necessarily. Carolina could still trade Necas. Their owner might not be happy they couldn't move him and keep trying.

 

[Habby4Life]

No way to know if Laine will be able to contribute next year. Since we aren't even sure of the terms of the Florida pick no way to know if it will even be a 2025 pick.

That’s why teams do their due diligence.

And yes, we know the conditions, if Calgary is top 10 they get Florida’s, and since they are cup champs I’m sure it will be a low one. If by chance its not a 2025 they can put conditions on the pick just like Cgy did

I'd probably do that in a second , but I want McGroarty too

I think PL is going to turn it around. Imagine getting both, that would be going for it.

 

[Habs10Habs]

Right. And it's how you defend it that matters.

Hey, if you think our 2nd line sucks and we need to fix it... cool. But say why. Give a ballpark as to how you think the line will produce. If you can't do that then how the hell is there a conversation?

Either the poster thinks they'll do 80 points each and doesn't understand what a second line looks like or they think they'll all do 25 in which case I'm going to ask them to back up why. There's no answer though. Only "THAT LINE SUCKS! If we have that we'll be bottom five!" Okay...

It's not so much the line sucks LG. It's more that none of those 3 players have really proven anything. Sure I can sit here and say that the 3 combined will get 140+ points. Hell I could say that they could become our real 1st line.

The reason why our 1st line has done so well is they've developed chemistry. With the 2nd line you'd like to try. It's like you've chosen our next 3 best offensive forwards, and put them together on a line.

With our first line. You have Suzuki who is a solid two way player. Caufield is the goal scorer. Who has also improved his defensive game. Slafkovsky is a freaking bull, who is also becoming more confident with his creative skills.

So instead of asking how many points we feel those three will obtain. I think it would be wiser to look at how well they compliment each other.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I'd probably do that in a second , but I want McGroarty too

No way to know if it makes sense since we know nothing about his recovery from injury and from his other problems. I leave it up to HuGo to determine if he is worth going after and at what cost.

That’s why teams do their due diligence, lol. Haha, he had shoulder surgery, he’s not in a wheelchair. Habs have Drs too.

And yes, we know the conditions, if Calgary is top 10 they get Florida’s, and since they are cup champs I’m sure it will be a low one. Once again, they can put conditions on it to protect it.


I think PL is going to turn it around. Imagine getting both, that would be going for it.

Apparently the Florida pick is protected but who knows what lottery protected is. Florida played well over their head, has had 2 long seasons and lost a lot of their defense. And they have had NO injuries. Anything could happen.

 

[Habby4Life]

No way to know if it makes sense since we know nothing about his recovery from injury and from his other problems. I leave it up to HuGo to determine if he is worth going after and at what cost.


Apparently the Florida pick is protected but who knows what lottery protected is. Florida played well over their head, has had 2 long seasons and lost a lot of their defense. And they have had NO injuries. Anything could happen.

I agree, anything could happen but I’m more than confident they are not dropping like a rock.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's not so much the line sucks LG. It's more that none of those 3 players have really proven anything. Sure I can sit here and say that the 3 combined will get 140+ points. Hell I could say that they could become our real 1st line.

I'll give you that argument for Roy. He's a rookie and there's less to go on with him.

The other two, we've seen what they can do. Yes, they've been limited by injury but I have little doubt that they can handle secondary scoring duties. Especially Dach.

It's all going to come down to health.

The reason why our 1st line has done so well is they've developed chemistry. With the 2nd line you'd like to try. It's like you've chosen our next 3 best offensive forwards, and put them together on a line.

I see no reason why it won't work if they played together. Dach's a strong two way player. Newhook is a speedster and Roy's high IQ.

Honestly though, It could very well be that CC goes with Dach and they move Newhook up. Hugo's whole plan is to create a team where you don't know which line is the first or second or third... he's said that in interviews before.

Down the road you may see things like Beck with Slaf, CC with Dach and Nick with Demidov... Just like we used to see Richer with Corson.

With our first line. You have Suzuki who is a solid two way player. Caufield is the goal scorer. Who has also improved his defensive game. Slafkovsky is a freaking bull, who is also becoming more confident with his creative skills.


So instead of asking how many points we feel those three will obtain. I think it would be wiser to look at how well they compliment each other.

No reason we can't do both.

If someone says "they suck"... they should tell us what they expect then no? What exactly is the catastrophe in answering that question? That you might be wrong? I'm sorry but if you say "that line sucks" then you should tell us how you think they'll do and why you think they'll fail. That's not a big ask man. If you can't do that then you're just trolling and shooting your mouth off.

 

[Habby4Life]

It's not so much the line sucks LG. It's more that none of those 3 players have really proven anything. Sure I can sit here and say that the 3 combined will get 140+ points. Hell I could say that they could become our real 1st line.

The reason why our 1st line has done so well is they've developed chemistry. With the 2nd line you'd like to try. It's like you've chosen our next 3 best offensive forwards, and put them together on a line.

With our first line. You have Suzuki who is a solid two way player. Caufield is the goal scorer. Who has also improved his defensive game. Slafkovsky is a freaking bull, who is also becoming more confident with his creative skills.

So instead of asking how many points we feel those three will obtain. I think it would be wiser to look at how well they compliment each other.

I agree with you, and maybe I didn’t articulate it as well as you did but unproven is exactly what I said. I also think the second line needs physicality and size. Neither Roy or Newhook bring that. Moreover, I said many times a player is more than just points, it’s his complete game.

Newhook being a third liner, that’s just my opinion.

“There second line is all band-aids, not a legit top 6. Newhook is a third liner, and Roy has played 20+ games & is unproven, and no one knows if Dach can stay healthy. They have no real 2nd line.”

Anyway, I’m convinced KH will add a top 6 forward this summer which will help solidify the problem.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I'll give you that argument for Roy. He's a rookie and there's less to go on with him.

The other two, we've seen what they can do. Yes, they've been limited by injury but I have little doubt that they can handle secondary scoring duties. Especially Dach.

It's all going to come down to health.

Yes we've seen what they can do over a short period of time, individually. You're putting a lot of faith that they'll be able to do it as a unit.

I see no reason why it won't work if they played together. Dach's a strong two way player. Newhook is a speedster and Roy's high IQ.

Honestly though, It could very well be that CC goes with Dach and they move Newhook up. Hugo's whole plan is to create a team where you don't know which line is the first or second or third... he's said that in interviews before.

Down the road you may see things like Beck with Slaf, CC with Dach and Nick with Demidov...

Yes Newhook is a speedster and Roy provides high IQ. Until Dach improves his face off ability. He isn't what I would call a strong two way player. Also who is going to provide the goals on this line? This is why I'd like to add Laine.

Ok, but I find that highly unlikely, since Caufield/Suzuki/Slafkovsky did so well together. Yes he did say that. But the reality is, it would be extremely difficult to have 3 balanced lines, with equal ability.

We're not talking about down the road. We're talking about this upcoming season. HuGo has also said they want to try to add a top 6 player. That right there shows me they don't have quite the confidence in our top 6, that you do.

No reason we can't do both.

If someone says "they suck"... they should tell us what they expect then no? What exactly is the catastrophe in answering that question? That you might be wrong? I'm sorry but if you say "that line sucks" then you should tell us how you think they'll do and why you think they'll fail. That's not a big ask man.

Yes, but you're question was pretty much asking how many points they would score as a unit. When there are many other factors to consider when putting together a line.

Again yes, reading posters say they'll suck. Or that's a weak line without giving reasons burns my ass too. lol

 

[Habs10Habs]

I agree with you, and maybe I didn’t articulate it as well as you did but unproven is exactly what I said. I also think the second line needs physicality and size. Neither Roy or Newhook bring that. Newhook being a third liner, that’s just my opinion.

“There second line is all band-aids, not a legit top 6. Newhook is a third liner, and Roy has played 20+ games & is unproven, and no one knows if Dach can stay healthy. They have no real 2nd line.”

Anyway, I’m convinced KH will add a top 6 forward this summer which will help solidify the problem.

You probably did, but I'm old and have a short attention span lol

LG himself has brought that up. He's okay with adding a top 6 player. He's against adding Laine, since he wouldn't contribute that.

I like Newhook. Personally I see him more as a tweener. He realistically should be a 3rd line player. But he won't hurt you if he has to fill in on the 2nd line, due to injury.

I'm not willing to go out on a limb and say that they could never be a solid 2nd line. I just don't see the chemistry between the 3 of them. As I mentioned earlier, since it's been noted that HuGo is looking to add a top 6 player. I don't think they see it either.

I think so too. I'd be quite surprised if we didn't add another top 6 player.

 

[Habby4Life]

You probably did, but I'm old and have a short attention span lol

LG himself has brought that up. He's okay with adding a top 6 player. He's against adding Laine, since he wouldn't contribute that.

I like Newhook. Personally I see him more as a tweener. He realistically should be a 3rd line player. But he won't hurt you if he has to fill in on the 2nd line, due to injury.

I'm not willing to go out on a limb and say that they could never be a solid 2nd line. I just don't see the chemistry between the 3 of them. As I mentioned earlier, since it's been noted that HuGo is looking to add a top 6 player. I don't think they see it either.

I think so too. I'd be quite surprised if we didn't add another top 6 player.

100%, very logical rationale post, thanks.

They have to add something up front if not to just show the core guys they are supporting them.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes we've seen what they can do over a short period of time, individually. You're putting a lot of faith that they'll be able to do it as a unit.

If they don't we'll just scramble the lines.

Like I said, I won't be surprised to see CC with Dach. That first line is not locked in stone. I think Dach and CC might actualy be a better fit.

Yes Newhook is a speedster and Roy provides high IQ. Until Dach improves his face off ability. He isn't what I would call a strong two way player. Also who is going to provide the goals on this line? This is why I'd like to add Laine.

Ok, but I find that highly unlikely, since Caufield/Suzuki/Slafkovsky did so well together. Yes he did say that. But the reality is, it would be extremely difficult to have 3 balanced lines, with equal ability.

They don't have to be equal ability. They'll never be equal ability. They weren't equal ability when we had Richer on one line and Smith on another. But with the talent we have we can probably put three duos together on each line to go with a support player. That's down the road though. At that point in time you'll have Demidov, Hage, Beck... depth is coming but it's going to take some time. We're a team in transition, not a contender. Hughes is looking at the long game and that's where he wants to get to.

For now, I'd say our top six is fine. Not awesome. Not cup worthy but certainly not terrible.

We're not talking about down the road. We're talking about this upcoming season. HuGo has also said they want to try to add a top 6 player. That right there shows me they don't have quite the confidence in our top 6, that you do.

Yep. Already agreed with you on this. Hugo has said this and I expect he'll do something. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. I don't think it's a concern. We are a team in transition, not a contender. Our top six is fine. Beyond it, we lack depth. And there will be injuries. That's why I think he'll add somebody, not because he doesn't have faith in those players. It's that he doesn't have faith that Armia, Gallagher and Anderson won't fill that role well if somebody gets hurt for an extended period of time.

But I also think Hughes realizes that whether we get somebody or not, we'll still miss. I don't think he sees this as something urgent that must be rectified now. We're still very likely going to be out of the playoffs.

Yes, but you're question was pretty much asking how many points they would score as a unit. When there are many other factors to consider when putting together a line.

Again yes, reading posters say they'll suck. Or that's a weak line without giving reasons burns my ass too. lol

Shit or get off the pot bud.

"They suck! We'll finish bottom five with that top six! Bunch a band-aids!" Okay... then what the f*** do you think they'll do? "Well, ah er ah gee..." I mean...

 

[Habby4Life]

If they don't we'll just scramble the lines.

Like I said, I won't be surprised to see CC with Dach. That first line is not locked in stone. I think Dach and CC might actualy be a better fit.

They don't have to be equal ability. They'll never be equal ability. They weren't equal ability when we had Richer on one line and Smith on another. But with the talent we have we can probably put three duos together on each line to go with a support player. That's down the road though. At that point in time you'll have Demidov, Hage, Beck... depth is coming but it's going to take some time. We're a team in transition, not a contender. Hughes is looking at the long game and that's where he wants to get to.

For now, I'd say our top six is fine. Not awesome. Not cup worthy but certainly not terrible.

Yep. Already agreed with you on this. Hugo has said this and I expect he'll do something. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. I don't think it's a concern. We are a team in transition, not a contender. Our top six is fine. Beyond it, we lack depth. And there will be injuries. That's why I think he'll add somebody, not because he doesn't have faith in those players. It's that he doesn't have faith that Armia, Gallagher and Anderson won't fill that role well if somebody gets hurt for an extended period of time.

But I also think Hughes realizes that whether we get somebody or not, we'll still miss. I don't think he sees this as something urgent that must be rectified now. We're still very likely going to be out of the playoffs.

Shit or get off the pot bud.

"They suck! We'll finish bottom five with that top six! Bunch a band-aids!" Okay... then what the f*** do you think they'll do? "Well, ah er ah gee..." I mean...

Ain’t Carnac, can’t predict points. I gave the very same reasons many times, uproven, health, etc, you just didn’t want to hear it!

A dog and his bone, lol.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ain’t Carnac, can’t predict points. I gave the very same reasons many times, uproven, health, etc, you just didn’t want to hear it!

A dog and his bone, lol.

"I can't possibly guess at what they'll do. But I KNOW they suck and we'll finish bottom five with that crappy group of players."

Got it.

 

[Habs10Habs]

100%, very logical rationale post, thanks.

They have to add something up front if not to just show the core guys they are supporting them.

Thank you, I have my moments

That's another point that needs to be addressed. We have young veteran players, who are chomping at the bit to get this party started. It's all fine and dandy to say, "Screw it, we'll wait another year". Realistically, it's a good idea, like you've mentioned, to support them.

 

[Habby4Life]

"I can't possibly guess at what they'll do. But I KNOW they suck and we'll finish bottom five with that crappy group of players."

Got it.

I told you my reasons. Unproven, health, size etc. Many Times. For some reason you are taking that personally. You think they will be ok, I think that line is weak, calm down, it’s just an opinion, they don’t have to be the same.

Points:
Dach - 50
Roy - 35
Newhook - 45
A random guess, despite all the variables,

Yes, I think they will finish bottom five, so do others. Time will tell

 

[Habby4Life]

Thank you, I have my moments

That's another point that needs to be addressed. We have young veteran players, who are chomping at the bit to get this party started. It's all fine and dandy to say, "Screw it, we'll wait another year". Realistically, it's a good idea, like you've mentioned, to support them.

That’s one of my biggest reasons, not to mention I also think Laine has huge upside and a lot to prove. Don’t blame him for wanting out of cbj.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I just told you my reasons, lol. Unproven, health, size etc. Many Times. For some reason you are taking that personally.

Points:
Dach - 50
Roy - 35
Newhook - 45

Thank you! Now we can have a conversation based on expectations.

I think they'll do better but even if they do this, why would you think that's awful?

Under your scenario here, the second line will produce a cummulative total of 130 points. The average 2nd liner will land you somewhere around 50 points in an 82 point season. Let's give those guys an average of 44 points... (it's a little lower but let's go with it) That's hardly a terrible line.

I also think you're underrating those guys. Newhook had 35 in 55 last year despite a huge injury. Dach has 40 in his last 60 and there was every indication he was going to have a monster year last season. Roy at 35 is pretty light but let's go with that. I'd say it's 140 minimum for that line. That's right in line with an average second liner and I see a lot more upside than that.

So if we're not that far apart, why is this a "horrible" line? How is Newhook awful if he's going to put up 45 points? Dach is a strong two way player. Newhook isn't a liabilty. Roy's a rookie. At worst it'd be a slightly below average line even under what you have here.

If we're going to finish bottom five, it's certainly not because of the second line as your prediction here shows. At worst it's below average and not near awful.

 

[Habs10Habs]

If they don't we'll just scramble the lines.

Like I said, I won't be surprised to see CC with Dach. That first line is not locked in stone. I think Dach and CC might actualy be a better fit.

Again, that's easier said then done. Suzuki's line was one of the best in the last half of the season. Unless their play drops off. I can't see them making any changes. Regardless of how well or how poorly the 2nd line might play.

They don't have to be equal ability. They'll never be equal ability. They weren't equal ability when we had Richer on one line and Smith on another. But with the talent we have we can probably put three duos together on each line to go with a support player. That's down the road though. At that point in time you'll have Demidov, Hage, Beck... depth is coming but it's going to take some time. We're a team in transition, not a contender. Hughes is looking at the long game and that's where he wants to get to.

For now, I'd say our top six is fine. Not awesome. Not cup worthy but certainly not terrible.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

I won't argue with you there. But we're not talking about down the road. We're talking about this upcoming season. HuGo wants to take a step forward this season. I don't think adding a top 6 player will change that. We still won't be a contender. But adding the right top 6 player, will help us go in that direction.

Yep. Already agreed with you on this. Hugo has said this and I expect he'll do something. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. I don't think it's a concern. We are a team in transition, not a contender. Our top six is fine. Beyond it, we lack depth. And there will be injuries. That's why I think he'll add somebody, not because he doesn't have faith in those players. It's that he doesn't have faith that Armia, Gallagher and Anderson won't fill that role well if somebody gets hurt for an extended period of time.

But I also think Hughes realizes that whether we get somebody or not, we'll still miss. I don't think he sees this as something urgent that must be rectified now. We're still very likely going to be out of the playoffs.

If by "fine" you mean average. Then yes, but I don't think they would provide us with the step forward that HuGo is looking for. Agreed, we're one or two injuries from having Gally and Anderson or Armia in our top 6. Unless Roy has a strong camp (he's far from guaranteed a spot). If we don't add anyone, it wouldn't surprise me if we did see one of them there.

It may not be urgent. But since HuGo mentioned it. It's definitely a concern. Personally I"m not thinking about playoffs. By watching what HuGo has done so far. We're not just adding draft picks, and prospects and letting them develop. By adding players like Dach and Newhook. HuGo looks to be trying to speed up the rebuild process. Dach's injury kind of screwed with his plans. If he's healthy this year *crosses fingers*. That could be considered the step we were supposed to take last year. Now I think he'll definitely add someone, to take yet another step.