HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[417]

For sure, that makes sense and it goes without saying. Yet his four pairings figure in the top 50 of GA/60 too.

I wish It was only about too much ice.

Yeah ultimately, he's not the type of Dman you want facing top lines, night in, night out, like he has for the Habs.

For now, it matters less but hopefully when some of the other LDs gain experience, they can better balance his usage.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah ultimately, he's not the type of Dman you want facing top lines, night in, night out, like he has for the Habs.

For now, it matters less but hopefully when some of the other LDs gain experience, they can better balance his usage.

Guhle has already done ostensibly better by most metrics under the exact same condition but with the added caveat of playing his first season on the right side. It's a better RD to pair with Guhle that we need to find.

 

[HABitual Fan]

I have no problem giving up assets for a long-term middle 6 forward I just don't want to waste them on a short-term solution. Both Necas and McG are looking for top 6 spots with 1st unit PP time. That you can't guarantee them beyond this season so in 2 years you may have to move an unhappy player for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Gustave]

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf
Demidov- Dach - Byfield

Holy moly

 

[HabzSauce]

Every player could have this argument made for them -- even Kotkaniemi has hangers-on and die hards. Even Drouin had them to the very last minute. Every player has "untapped upside".

You have to utilise assets in a good way sometimes, and that means giving them away even if you like them. Las Vegas certainly didn't think they're sending junk away when they traded Suzuki in that package to the Habs but they wanted Pacioretty more.

He's not untouchable -- exactly my point. The next question is just how touchable is he? There we differ.

He's also terrible defensively and couldn't crack the Habs' awful roster and is on the verge of losing his waiver exemption.

I think Harris has more value because he's actually secured an NHL spot but they're the same sort of player: tweeners we shouldn't think are must-keeps. I think we agree on that.

There's no need to move anyone just yet... except when you want to improve the roster and need to move an asset-with-value to get another asset-with-value that you want more. This is what I mean by the poverty mentality, many people simply refuse to acknowledge that you have to give to get.

Agreed in bold, but each player and situation is different. For example if we were trying to contend and really needed a better RD, I wouldn't hesitate on giving up on him this early and trading him.

But since we are in a transition year, we can afford the extra time to evaluate. We're talking one more year to see what we have in Barron. He's not a bum either - yes he's got his warts but he's also shown ability. There is upside with him. It doesn't feel like blind faith like it did with KK, Sherback, etc. And he plays RD to top it off which we're already scarce on.

If we want talent, upgrades, etc - we most definitely need to give to get. I don't think we are there yet though, where we need to decide who stays and who goes. We're still one year away. We've accumulated all these assets even going back to the MB era (Roy, Mailloux, Xhekaj, etc). And we still have deadweight to deal with this year.

Wouldn't you want to see what we have first before we start offloading guys for minor improvements? What's the rush this year? Unless it is for an elite talent, I don't think trading Barron this season makes any sense. Targets like McGroarty COULD work out. I am open to the possibility, but he's got his red flags too and we already have plenty of unproven middle 6 pieces in the pipeline just salivating to get a chance as soon as this year. Not a slam dunk trade by any means

I say it makes more sense we stay the course this season, and then make our big improvements at a later point. Let us see how all this internal competition unfolds. By next year, we will have much more intel on this team, and can wheel and deal more accurately. Time is a luxury for us right now, and especially in Barron's case, we should use it

 

[Jaynki]

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf
Demidov- Dach - Byfield

Holy moly

Let's offer sheet the f*** outta Byfield.

1x9.3M. Then we sign him long term to a lower AAV. Exactly like the Canes did. Would cost 1st,2nd,3rd and it would bust their cap.

They went hard shopping for guys like Foegele and Edmunson and we should absolutely punish them for this. Its not like Bergevin has done this mistake before letting KK go because we committed to f***ing Mike Hoffman.

 

[gusfring]

Let's offer sheet the f*** outta Byfield.

1x9.3M. Then we sign him long term to a lower AAV. Exactly like the Canes did. Would cost 1st,2nd,3rd and it would bust their cap.

They went hard shopping for guys like Foegele and Edmunson and we should absolutely punish them for this. Its not like Bergevin has done this mistake before letting KK go because we committed to f***ing Mike Hoffman.

Not going to happen.

 

[Ezpz]

Let's offer sheet the f*** outta Byfield.

1x9.3M. Then we sign him long term to a lower AAV. Exactly like the Canes did. Would cost 1st,2nd,3rd and it would bust their cap.

They went hard shopping for guys like Foegele and Edmunson and we should absolutely punish them for this. Its not like Bergevin has done this mistake before letting KK go because we committed to f***ing Mike Hoffman.

That only works if the player wants it. His QO would be 9.5 and he could accept that and go to free agency to get a second payday with a good season.

It worked with kk because he signed above market value on both deals. No one will take his contract now.

 

[Jaynki]

Not going to happen.

indeed

 

[TesseractPrice]

Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Dach, Newhook is a solid top 5 for where the Habs are in their rebuild in terms of complementarity and two-way play. Roy showed very promising things last season, albeit in a short sample; he could join the group this season though it is a gamble

The biggest problem of the top-6 is by far in my opinion is the gap between the 5th or 6th best forward (depending how high one is on Roy) and the next best forward. It would take only one of the aforementionned forwards getting injured to make the 2nd line weak, like we saw last season. To me, Dach and Newhook are already pretty good players compared to the average 2nd liners in the league and will show to be far better at the end of the season if they can stay healthy

Then, there's Demidov. Gorton and Hughes might have hoped he'd be available, I don't know if the really believed it. The pick probably made them reconsider a lot of moves in favour of a slower approach. If we had taken Iginla for example, I believe we'd have signed a top 6 UFA and the McGroarty trade might have happened

McGroarty is a solid prospect, would l fit the team though and I would love to have him. I don't know about him so I can't talk about his attitude and it looks like the PP demands thing was just some rumors. Whether as a 2nd or 3rd liner, he would, probably be a great Hab. However, he really isn't a better prospect than Newhook was at the same age. I'd even say he's a lesser one despite his size when you factor in position and skating. The value of prospects at the end of their NCAA careers is generally its highest.

 

[Miller Time]

The first line did pretty good. The line ranks 5th in the league in GF, although that has a lot to do with the time they played together. Overall in most metrics they rank right behind Dallas.

Wow, didn't realize our top 3 were that effective compared to league in terms of Goals...

But offensive production-wise (points), those 3 were definitely bottom 10 of the league. That's what I was referring to.

 

[ReHabs]

Agreed in bold, but each player and situation is different. For example if we were trying to contend and really needed a better RD, I wouldn't hesitate on giving up on him this early and trading him.

But since we are in a transition year, we can afford the extra time to evaluate. We're talking one more year to see what we have in Barron. He's not a bum either - yes he's got his warts but he's also shown ability. There is upside with him. It doesn't feel like blind faith like it did with KK, Sherback, etc. And he plays RD to top it off which we're already scarce on.

If we want talent, upgrades, etc - we most definitely need to give to get. I don't think we are there yet though, where we need to decide who stays and who goes. We're still one year away. We've accumulated all these assets even going back to the MB era (Roy, Mailloux, Xhekaj, etc). And we still have deadweight to deal with this year.

Wouldn't you want to see what we have first before we start offloading guys for minor improvements? What's the rush this year? Unless it is for an elite talent, I don't think trading Barron this season makes any sense. Targets like McGroarty COULD work out. I am open to the possibility, but he's got his red flags too and we already have plenty of unproven middle 6 pieces in the pipeline just salivating to get a chance as soon as this year. Not a slam dunk trade by any means

I say it makes more sense we stay the course this season, and then make our big improvements at a later point. Let us see how all this internal competition unfolds. By next year, we will have much more intel on this team, and can wheel and deal more accurately. Time is a luxury for us right now, and especially in Barron's case, we should use it

Good comment. While I prioritize improving the top6/top9 asap more than I prioritize Barron’s upside, it’s entirely fair to say we don’t have a gun to our head and there is no rush to make a trade happen. It is very much a transition year… with that said, we should expect to see players, including youngsters, moved and for these moves to happen any day now.

I’ve so far in this summer seen impassioned defences (to retain) the likes of Savard, Matheson, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, Guhle, Evans, Newhook, and Montembault. Not that any of them should be traded or should not be traded but it seems difficult to imagine Habs commentators coming to terms with the fact Hughes will be horse-trading soon. Prior to shipping away Romanov I don’t think anybody thought he was trade worthy.

Meanwhile, and I guess it’s a matter of taste, but I prefer having a small core group and leaving every other player-asset available for a swap. I felt Bergevin’s approach was the former and that he over-valued depth guys and I admire VGK and FLA’s approach more. Though maybe MTL has to be more player friendly due to externalities (eg Taxes, etc).

 

[Mrb1p]

Wow, didn't realize our top 3 were that effective compared to league in terms of Goals...

But offensive production-wise (points), those 3 were definitely bottom 10 of the league. That's what I was referring to.

As a line at 5v5 they rank high. Individually they don't. It's a bit of a slippery slope when you compare units because the NHL has a lot of line flow.

Individually they rank 64th, 66 and 94th. It's similar to when Danault/Gally/Tatar was "one of the better line" except this line is much better at scoring goals.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Good comment. While I prioritize improving the top6/top9 asap more than I prioritize Barron’s upside, it’s entirely fair to say we don’t have a gun to our head and there is no rush to make a trade happen. It is very much a transition year… with that said, we should expect to see players, including youngsters, moved and for these moves to happen any day now.

I’ve so far in this summer seen impassioned defences (to retain) the likes of Savard, Matheson, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, Guhle, Evans, Newhook, and Montembault. Not that any of them should be traded or should not be traded but it seems difficult to imagine Habs commentators coming to terms with the fact Hughes will be horse-trading soon. Prior to shipping away Romanov I don’t think anybody thought he was trade worthy.

Meanwhile, and I guess it’s a matter of taste, but I prefer having a small core group and leaving every other player-asset available for a swap. I felt Bergevin’s approach was the former and that he over-valued depth guys and I admire VGK and FLA’s approach more. Though maybe MTL has to be more player friendly due to externalities (eg Taxes, etc).

The bolded seems like drawing conclusions based on biased interpretation. We've also seen impassioned arguments to trade Savard, Matheson, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, Guhle, Evans, Newhook, Montembault and even Caufield.

The general opinion is (and has always been) that its less about trading someone and more what the team may be getting if they do trade someone. You can say trade Barron, but if the best trade you can get is Barron+ for Kaliyev, then you're going to get a lot more pushback than a Barron++ for McGroarty.

I'm also not sure why you're saying about Bergevin. It is absolutely true that Bergevin's approach was the "former" (having a small core group). Under Bergevin, especially after 2015, there was a LOT of roster turnover every season. In the end the core was basically Weber, Price, Petry, Suzuki and Gallagher (and arguably Danault). The major difference between Vegas and Florida vs what Bergevin did (apart from having a better core group) is, in the case of Vegas he didn't commit to winning in the present at all other costs and in the case of Florida, he didn't focus on exploiting inefficiencies.

Montreal right now doesn't have a small core group that can win a cup. They may not even have a small core group that can make the playoffs. Almost every fan on here wants a small core group and leaving every other player-asset available for a swap. But by far the best way to get that core group is through the draft (generally drafting in high and often) and development. So any trade outside has to consider risks (losing players that haven't finished developing, good draft picks) vs what is to be gained. And opinions differ on the value there.

 

[Scintillating10]

Flames apparently looking to move Weegar. He'd be a good vet to have on the RD. A bit long term wise but the money is manageable.

Big contract though

 

[BoneHutson]

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf
Demidov- Dach - Byfield

Holy moly

Yup thats my idea for this summer as well. 9.1/1y then extend him 7.6/8y. Byfield would be the perfect fit

 

[BoneHutson]

Not going to happen.

Holy f*** you dont know that. If Hughes judges that LA couldnt match, that Byfield is worth more to them than that unprotected first and more importantly that Byfield wants to come and embraces the culture theyre trying to build, he could 100% OS him.

 

[gusfring]

Holy f*** you dont know that. If Hughes judges that LA couldnt match, that Byfield is worth more to them than that unprotected first and more importantly that Byfield wants to come and embraces the culture theyre trying to build, he could 100% OS him.

Wanna wager?

 

[BoneHutson]

Wanna wager?

im not gonna bet on anything with you. Im barely trying to convince you that they should OS Byfield, but criticizing you and guys like you contributing nothing to a thread by commenting lame shit like “not happening”, “move on”, etc.

 

[Gustave]

Yup thats my idea for this summer as well. 9.1/1y then extend him 7.6/8y. Byfield would be the perfect fit

The offer would need to be very very high for LA to let him go. Something almost stupid and we’d have to live with the target on our back…. Also… the internal cap would be crushed by it.

But that top 6 would be ridiculous for sure. It’s fun to imagine at least

 

[sampollock]

Of that group [Necas, Zegras, Kakko and Johnson], Johnson has the best draft pedigree, is the youngest of the four and scored 40 points for the Blue Jackets as a 20-year-old before having a disappointing season a year ago.

In my opinion, he has the best chance of developing into a legitimate top-tier forward. As Montreal’s rebuild continues, he would fit better into their core than the other three.” - Eric Duhatschek

 

[gusfring]

im not gonna bet on anything with you. Im barely trying to convince you that they should OS Byfield, but criticizing you and guys like you contributing nothing to a thread by commenting lame shit like “not happening”, “move on”, etc.

As expected. Thanks.

 

[Vachon23]

Of that group [Necas, Zegras, Kakko and Johnson], Johnson has the best draft pedigree, is the youngest of the four and scored 40 points for the Blue Jackets as a 20-year-old before having a disappointing season a year ago.

In my opinion, he has the best chance of developing into a legitimate top-tier forward. As Montreal’s rebuild continues, he would fit better into their core than the other three.” - Eric Duhatschek

And he’s not going anywhere

New management + coach. They will give him his chance

 

[BoneHutson]

The offer would need to be very very high for LA to let him go. Something almost stupid and we’d have to live with the target on our back…. Also… the internal cap would be crushed by it.

But that top 6 would be ridiculous for sure. It’s fun to imagine at least

Cap structure wouldnt be broken if he buys in and accept an extension at an 7.5 AAV on january first.

 

[CGG]

Periodic reminder that Barron was 23rd in the league last year in goals among right-shot D. And he only played 48 games. The guy can score, can skate, he's 6'2" and he's only 22. Give him another season to prove what he can do. For all the complaints about how terrible he was, he was only -3 on the year on a dismal team.