HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[GrandmaCookie]

If we draft Lindstrom/Demidov at 5 fridya

I would sincerely overpay for McGroarty and i don't f***ing care. 26OV + Flames 1st 2025 + another plethora of picks i dont f***ing care.

Starting 2025 with Slafkovsky, Suzuki, Caufield, McGroarty, Dach, Demidov, Newhook, Beck... hutson, reinbacher, matheson, guhle, xhekaj, mailloux.

That would sincerely be fuxking cjrist exciting.

Not gonna happen. These wishful scenario never happen.

 

[morhilane]

McGroarty has decided to go back for 3rd year at Univ of Michigan- played w Fantilli

I wonder what changed in two months, since Friedman announced two months ago that McGroarty was going back to the university and the Jets and his advisors both agreed to it.

I also remember reading that McGroarty was a Jets fan growing up, but could never source that.

And if McGroarty doesn't want to play in Canada, he's not coming here.

 

[sampollock]

It wasn't us - they didn't want him that badly in the first place. They weren't taking that contract on and pay him more than Suzuki as a troublesome player.

that contract is such a issue

 

[Vachon23]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1804512180920050021

Matheson vs Ryan Leonard

 

[Jaynki]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1804512180920050021

Matheson vs Ryan Leonard

It sure will be a very interesting summer with the rising cap.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1804509401442824679

Might explain why LA ''only'' had to take back Kuemper.

Lol.

We did not want him. If we did, you don't think we can't beat Darcy Keumper 1 for 1?

Clowns. Absolute clowns.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

It wasn't us - they didn't want him that badly in the first place. They weren't taking that contract on and pay him more than Suzuki as a troublesome player.

It was likely that the Habs offered more bad contracts and/or wanted retention.

LA wanted a goalie and got a goalie with a shorter contract and in a position they need.

 

[absolute garbage]

It wasn't us - they didn't want him that badly in the first place. They weren't taking that contract on and pay him more than Suzuki as a troublesome player.

Surely it would've been Anderson for PLD. Anderson and Kuemper have almost identical contracts.

 

[GrandBison]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1804512180920050021

Matheson vs Ryan Leonard

Not sure it's a reliable source but I heard they will purchase Hockeydb and eliteprospect.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

HAHAHA

ya like we want to lose forever and the players on the team the same. good points

I'd argue that yes, there are certainly many posters here who have spent so much time on HF and talking about drafts that they get a bigger kick out of tanking than they would out of victories. For a significant amount of posters it seems like prospect talk is the driving factor of their fandom, not the actual club.

Remember all the people who were getting pissed when the club was winning actual playoff games because it was being done under Bergevin?

 

[McGees]

BARRON HARRIS KIDNEY AND A 2ND LFG KENT!!!

 

[Deus ex machina]

Lol.

We did not want him. If we did, you don't think we can't beat Darcy Keumper 1 for 1?

Clowns. Absolute clowns.

If they were in on him, my guess is they asked for more salary retention than what LA took on with Kuemper salary.
And LA needed a goalie.

There's always a limit to what a team is willing to pay.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

I'd argue that yes, there are certainly many posters here who have spent so much time on HF and talking about drafts that they get a bigger kick out of tanking than they would out of victories. For a significant amount of posters it seems like prospect talk is the driving factor of their fandom, not the actual club.

Remember all the people who were getting pissed when the club was winning actual playoff games because it was being done under Bergevin?

A new debate on this will once again go nowhere, but those type of post always give me a good laugh. I never saw a pro-tank poster that wouldn't prefer a Stanley Cup over a Top 3 pick. More often than not, the goal of a tanking phase is to build a talented core to compete in the future for championship on a long-term basis.

Getting a kick out of tanking is somewhat valid. A lot of Stanley Cup winning teams have gone through some form of a tank, before Oilers was used as an anti-tank example and look where they at now.

I can understand people posting on Hockey Future Board which has a strong emphasis on prospect and junior league coverage being excited about prospect and draft since these board are much more oriented towards these topics than say Reddit.

Specially considering this team has been at the no-mans land stage for quite some time before the Hughes/Gorton era. Wishing for losses in a losing season is a logical way to see things, what would winning a couple more games in the grand scheme of things do beside picking #8 instead of #5? 5-6 more wins in 2023-2024 isn't building any more kind of winning culture, but it does bring a shittier pick.

 

[Skip Bayless]

BARRON HARRIS KIDNEY AND A 2ND LFG KENT!!!

Give 'em D, they need D.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

A new debate on this will once again go nowhere, but those type of post always give me a good laugh. I never saw a pro-tank poster that wouldn't prefer a Stanley Cup over a Top 3 pick. More often than not, the goal of a tanking phase is to build a talented core to compete in the future for championship on a long-term basis.

Getting a kick out of tanking is somewhat valid. A lot of Stanley Cup winning teams have gone through some form of a tank, before Oilers was used as an anti-tank example and look where they at now.

I can understand people posting on Hockey Future Board which has a strong emphasis on prospect and junior league coverage being excited about prospect and draft since these board are much more oriented towards these topics than say Reddit.

Specially considering this team has been at the no-mans land stage for quite some time before the Hughes/Gorton era. Wishing for losses in a losing season is a logical way to see things, what would winning a couple more games in the grand scheme of things do beside picking #8 instead of #5? 5-6 more wins in 2023-2024 isn't building any more kind of winning culture, but it does bring a shittier pick.

Every team's gotten high picks but not every team has gone through an actual tank.

Chicago (cup-winning Chicago, not current Chicago), Tampa, Florida, Dallas, Vegas, St.Louis, Boston are all teams that never tanked and actually constantly tried to build a club. They didn't sell off everyone with a pulse and celebrated every loss.

So yeah, while you can say 'No fan prefers a third overall pick to a Cup' sure, no one is actually going to come out and say that, but when you have posters actively cheering against the club and getting legitimately pissed at wins and goals scored, the poster doesn't need to come out and say anything - he's obvious enough. And I say this as someone who's supportive of the rebuild because it was necessary. But I'm not daft enough to not be able to read the room. Losing for years sucks and draft picks aren't the only way to build a team. There's also no order to this. You don't shun bringing in good players because 'it's not the right time' and you need to lose more. That's moronic.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I'd tell this entitled beotch to shut his mouth, sign a contract with the team that drafted him and make a name for himself. I'm sick of these types of athletes, in every sport.

Lol at the tears.

This isn't a game of love. If the player has no interest in living in Winnipeg, maybe Winnipeg should be more proactive about selling prospects on their cities and organizations. There's more to life than hockey and if I was a good enough player that I could have the clout to call my own shot, I'd damn well use it.

 

[samsagat]

Yep, Habs communication/marketing departments did a great job of selling "hope" to the club fans.

We slowly switched from fans that were used to "hope of winning the cup" to fans who are "hoping to draft the earlier possible".

But, at the end of the day, times have changed.

In the salary cap era, NHL dynasty teams have switched from "winning it all 4-5 times in a row" and being perennial contenders a few years priors/after, to "winning it 2 times in a row is such an accomplishment"...

The NHL is now like junior, where having winning/losing teams is cyclical.

In the actual NHL reality, it's very hard to build contenders through trades/UFAs alone. You have to hit homeruns at the draft one way or another.

Yes there's exceptions, but rare are the teams that won the cup, since the cap era, without passing through a rough patch.

So is this change of "paradigms", when it comes to Habs fans expectations, bad?

No, as far as I'm concerned, it's just adapting to the reality of the league. Which in my mind is healthy.

And I'm confident about actual Habs management. They're smart, methodical, and they believe in their own recipe instead of trying to copycat the last Cup winner. They're not afraid of thinking outside the box and do things their own way.

I like it, I personally prefer this kind of philosophy, that are more prone to establish new trends, thinking by themselves, than copying what others do but in the end, always trailing behind because they're 2 shots behind instead of being 2 shots ahead...

 

[MrNasty]

I wonder what changed in two months, since Friedman announced two months ago that McGroarty was going back to the university and the Jets and his advisors both agreed to it.

I also remember reading that McGroarty was a Jets fan growing up, but could never source that.

And if McGroarty doesn't want to play in Canada, he's not coming here.

Where the heck did the 'does not want to sign in Canada' narrative come from? Or even that he doesn't want to sign in Winnipeg? This is all just speculation running rampant.
All Friedman said is that both sides are being silent on the matter and his name is out there.

 

[le_sean]

I’d definitely be making a play for McGroarty.

I think you’re going to see teams like the Jets and Flames start avoiding NCAA players moving forward.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Every team's gotten high picks but not every team has gone through an actual tank.

Chicago (cup-winning Chicago, not current Chicago), Tampa, Florida, Dallas, Vegas, St.Louis, Boston are all teams that never tanked and actually constantly tried to build a club. They didn't sell off everyone with a pulse and celebrated every loss.

So yeah, while you can say 'No fan prefers a third overall pick to a Cup' sure, no one is actually going to come out and say that, but when you have posters actively cheering against the club and getting legitimately pissed at wins and goals scored, the poster doesn't need to come out and say anything - he's obvious enough. And I say this as someone who's supportive of the rebuild because it was necessary. But I'm not daft enough to not be able to read the room.

Don't feel like going into these useless debate fuelled by exaggerated hyperboles, so just gonna let reality speaks for itself.

The Stanley Cup final itself this year display two teams who had multi year tank (3 or more season in a short span).

Florida: Barkov, Huberdeau (converted to Tkachuk), Ekblad are a major part of their core.
Edmonton: This one needs no explanation but see McDavid, Draisatl

Then you have teams like Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malking, Fleury) Chicago (Kane, Toews), Los Angeles (Doughty, Kopitar), Tampa Bay (Hedman, Stamkos), Colorado (Mackinnon, Makar) who build a major part of their core on high picks. OFC others factors were at play to build those cup winning teams.

It's simple. Successful drafting = elite talent. Elite talent = increased chance of winning championship. High picks happens to increase the chance of successful drafting. Losing more games means better draft power, which can thus greatly increase the chance of becoming a competitive team if the management hit right on those high picks.

In a losing season, where playoff is out of reach already, I don't understand how a logical person can't recognise at least that losing more short term could be beneficial in the big picture.I don't care about the one or two hypothetical dofus that cheer for a 10 year long tank while selling every player over 25; the majority of the pro-tank poster do have a valid point.

 

[ReHabs]

Yep, Habs communication/marketing departments did a great job of selling "hope" to the club fans.

We slowly switched from fans that were used to "hope of winning the cup" to fans who are "hoping to draft the earlier possible".

But, at the end of the day, times have changed.

In the salary cap era, NHL dynasty teams have switched from "winning it all 4-5 times in a row" and being perennial contenders a few years priors/after, to "winning it 2 times in a row is such an accomplishment"...

The NHL is now like junior, where having winning/losing teams is cyclical.

In the actual NHL reality, it's very hard to build contenders through trades/UFAs alone. You have to hit homeruns at the draft one way or another.

Yes there's exceptions, but rare are the teams that won the cup, since the cap era, without passing through a rough patch.

So is this change of "paradigms", when it comes to Habs fans expectations, bad?

No, as far as I'm concerned, it's just adapting to the reality of the league. Which in my mind is healthy.

And I'm confident about actual Habs management. They're smart, methodical, and they believe in their own recipe instead of trying to copycat the last Cup winner. They're not afraid of thinking outside the box and do things their own way.

I like it, I personally prefer this kind of philosophy, that are more prone to establish new trends, thinking by themselves, than copying what others do but in the end, always trailing behind because they're 2 shots behind instead of being 2 shots ahead...

When will it be the Habs’ cycle to be ambitious, spend to get top players, and expect deep cup runs?

In my 20+ years of die hard fandom it has been precisely 0 years. The closest we got was the half season where Tanguay and Lang got injured in those barberpole jerseys… and we didn’t have the necessary C depth to actually compete then either, not even with old man Lang.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Don't feel like going into these useless debate fuelled by exaggerated hyperboles, so just gonna let reality speaks for itself.

The Stanley Cup final itself this year display two teams who had multi year tank (3 or more season in a short span).

Florida: Barkov, Huberdeau (converted to Tkachuk), Ekblad are a major part of their core.
Edmonton: This one needs no explanation but see McDavid, Draisatl

Then you have teams like Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malking, Fleury) Chicago (Kane, Toews), Los Angeles (Doughty, Kopitar), Tampa Bay (Hedman, Stamkos) who build their a major part of their core on high picks.

It's simple. Successful drafting = elite talent. Elite talent = increased chance of winning championship. High picks happens to increase the chance of successful drafting. Losing more games means better draft power, which can thus greatly increase the chance of becoming a competitive team if the management hit right on those high picks.

In a losing season, where playoff is out of reach already, I don't understand how a logical person can"t recognise at least that losing more short term could be beneficial in the big picture.I don't care about the one or two hypothetical dofus that cheer for a 10 year long tank while selling every player over 25; the majority of the pro-tank poster do have a valid point.

Equating drafting early with tanking is farcical.

Chicago was signing guys like Khabibulin and Aucoin to big money and flipping futures for Havlat in the midst of drafting Kane and Toews.

Tampa Bay kept guys like St.Louis, Lecavalier and re-signed Prospal to a multi-year deal after flipping him for a pick. The only core piece they traded was Richards - for a starting goalie.

Florida: Ekblad has cratered. Then you're looking at Barkov (11 years ago) and the trade acquirements of Tkachuk, Bennett, Reinhart, etc. etc.

I'm not even going to touch Boston, Dallas and St.Louis since you didn't either but I could if need be.

Pittsburgh and Washington went through blatant tanks during troubled history for the franchises where they were dumping contract after contract. Edmonton is finally there after God knows how many 1st overall and fifteen years of being a league joke. Colorado IIRC also did but then went out and signed a bunch of vers the instant they drafted McK.

Los Angeles I'm not too familiar with anymore so not sure if they sold everything.

There's no hyperbole here. There's a bridge to gap between a rebuild and trying to lose every single game - something that Habs management and their coaching actually seem acutely aware of.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Equating drafting early with tanking is farcical.

Chicago was signing guys like Khabibulin and Aucoin to big money and flipping futures for Havlat in the midst of drafting Kane and Toews.

Tampa Bay kept guys like St.Louis, Lecavalier and re-signed Prospal to a multi-year deal after flipping him for a pick. The only core piece they traded was Richards - for a starting goalie.

Florida: Ekblad has cratered. Then you're looking at Barkov (11 years ago) and the trade acquirements of Tkachuk, Bennett, Reinhart, etc. etc.

I'm not even going to touch Boston, Dallas and St.Louis since you didn't either but I could if need be.

Pittsburgh and Washington went through blatant tanks during troubled history for the franchises where they were dumping contract after contract. Edmonton is finally there after God knows how many 1st overall and fifteen years of being a league joke.

Los Angeles I'm not too familiar with anymore so not sure if they sold everything.

There's no hyperbole here. There's a bridge to gap between a rebuild and trying to lose every single game - something that Habs management and their coaching actually seem acutely aware of.

I already had this debate with you years ago I'm pretty sure.

It is useless.

I'm not arguing about teams deliberately trying to be bad to tank and pick superstar.

I was replying to your post about fans cheering about losses in a losing season and being excited about prospect and future on hockey future boards.

I don't see what's so egregious about this. But's let's agree to disagree because I couldn't care less about going into those never ending discussion.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I already had this debate with you years ago I'm pretty sure.

It is useless.

I'm not arguing about teams deliberately trying to be bad to tank and pick superstar.

But those are precisely the types of posters I'm talking about. Those who dream of us doing this and then get pissed when Joel Armia scores a goal.

So why'd you bother replying?

 

[Canadienna]

Edit: Oops, had already been posted. Please delete.