HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Saundies]

Trading for prospects makes sense when rebuilding. And we didn’t have the depth of prospects we do now. And Zegras is almost a 6 million dollar player. Completely different situation.

We’re adding another top forward this year in the draft. We already have Nick, CC, Slaf, Dach, Roy, Newhook, Beck….

Why don’t we just see what they can do? Why not give it a year and re-evaluate based on performance next year? Why would I push a guy like Roy back when he’s shown nothing but promise?

How will that crop improve if you trade for players and use them ahead of them? Why trade for a guy who will push Roy to the third line?

Just let our guys show what they can do. Let’s say - Dach goes down again - then we can re-evaluate later.

You're giving mixed messages -- you want our young forwards to develop properly, yet you want to throw them to the wolves and play them in our top 6 right away? The forward crop you mentioned, only 2 are prospects and Beck may not even make the team.

It makes sense to trade for a Zegras so you can let the guys you pick this year and Beck/Roy/Mesar/Kaapanen/whoever marinate a little longer. If they're pushing for spots, that's amazing. If Owen Beck is pushing Kirby Dach for a second line C spot, then either Dach regressed terribly or we have a great problem on our hands and Beck is that good.

 

[ReHabs]

There are different ways of improving a roster. The tried and true method is to draft the best players you can and develop them properly.

Remember when everyone felt we should trade Price and keep Halak? You have to think long term. We’re not a cup contender so why the rush?

Half hearted rebuilds don’t work. Getting Zegras doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when we’ve got guys here who we’re trying to develop. Why wouldn’t we wait to see what we have before making those kinds of moves? Give Roy and Dach and Newhook all the opportunities you can. Look what happened when Slaf moved up with Nick and CC… why would we get someone to put ahead of Roy now when he’s finally ready for the next step?

That’s not how rebuilds work.

Getting Dach doesn't make a whole lot of sense in your paradigm either. And especially not Newhook. Yet here we are... because HuGo know you can't sit on your eggs and hope they turn into stars... that's not how rebuilds work.

Earlier you disagreed with my notion that in case the Habs draft LD Dickinson with the 5OA they could trade Guhle or Matheson for scoring help. So obviously we're going to disagree with the vision and approach. What is impossible to deny is the Habs need a lot more scoring depth if not actual high-end (PPG+) talent. If you think Roy, Mešar, Farrell, Kidney, etc can help the cause so be it, I'm not going to argue about their future.

The argument is simple (1) If a player deserves TOI, he will get it. (2)There's never enough scoring depth.

Ideally Newhook plays as a 3rd liner, not a 2nd liner so we have at least two spots open on the second line.

 

[sampollock]

Laine is definitely someone I'm willing to target. As you say, top priority is that he's okay after entering the players' assistance program. And the other is that hopefully he's healthy because he's dealt with injuries the last two years.

Last year he missed almost the whole year. He only played 18 games. But his previous two seasons in Columbus has shown that he is still a goal scorer and point getter, something the Habs really need:

2021-22: 56 pts (26G, 30A) in 56 GP. PPG player and on pace for 38 goals and 82 pts.
2022-23: 52 pts (22G, 30A) in 55 GP. Just under a PPG player and on pace for 31 goals and 76 pts.

WHY not do it? young , 2 years on a contract, and he can score.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You're giving mixed messages -- you want our young forwards to develop properly, yet you want to throw them to the wolves and play them in our top 6 right away?

Putting prospects with your best players is how they improve. It’s always been that way. You aren’t “throwing them to the wolves” you’re improving their chance of success. Both Slaf and CC improved immediately when moved to the first.

Do you think Roy will have a better shot at success with Dach and Suzuki or Evans and Armia?

The forward crop you mentioned, only 2 are prospects and Beck may not even make the team.

There are only two prospects because our other prospects have graduated to impact players. Cc,Slaf have already had really good success. Dach has played well when healthy and the same goes for Newhook. It’s a good young nucleus of forwards and we have another one we’re about to draft. As it is Newhook will probably get knocked to the third line within a year or two.

It makes sense to trade for a Zegras so you can let the guys you pick this year and Beck/Roy/Mesar/Kaapanen/whoever marinate a little longer. If they're pushing for spots, that's amazing. If Owen Beck is pushing Kirby Dach for a second line C spot, then either Dach regressed terribly or we have a great problem on our hands and Beck is that good.

We’ve got six guys who can do the job now. Some who need time in the top six to develop. It’s a complete waste to “marinade” Roy on the third line.

 

[HabzSauce]

You won’t be able to acquire Rantanen. What do you expect to acquire? Zegras and Necas are better than Dach.

I'd much rather Dach than either of those two. For a plethora of reasons. Only concern is injuries.

With the assets we have I'd expect better than zegras/necas. Players can always be had at the right price. Who would have thought Weber was available when we got him? Or even Dach? Hopefully Hugo has a little more intel then us fans have and can get creative somehow.

I also don't think it's wise to make a trade just to make a trade. If nobody else available, we can afford another year before we make that big splash in my opinion. My primary concern this year is freeing up more icetime for our LD. And keeping forward slots open for guys like Roy and/or whoever else may surprise us this year. Don't necessarily need to make a big trade to make that happen

 

[Mcdonaldz]

@Miller Time @SOLR

Imma go out on a limb here and say you both don’t have qualifications loll

 

[417]

I think we already have too many of those. Might as well sign nobody if it's the case.

I'm not advocating for it but if you're a bottom 5 team and looking to sign UFAs to short term deals…the pool is shallow.

 

[417]

I get it.
But you could also say two years ago his team traded a first just to get rid of him...

At this point, the most recent evolution of his situation is that he completed a healthy, productive season. Referencing the year prior or two years to highlight durability concerns, while ignoring the past season, seems odd to me.

Sure but you have to acknowledge the history of the player as well, especially given the type of injury he had.

Its great he had a complete season the year past and that's put him firmly in the position he wanted when he signed a 1yr deal, last year.

But I think its also fair to say that teams aren't exactly going to completely write off what happened the 3 seasons prior to it.

Again my thing is less about the player and his injuries, more about where this team is now and moving forward like I said in the previous post.

He's going to have teams interested who are more willing than the Habs are to sign him to a longer term deal, I think that's what he's looking for, security, and I don't think the Habs should be the team offering that appeal.

 

[ReHabs]

I'd much rather Dach than either of those two. For a plethora of reasons. Only concern is injuries.

With the assets we have I'd expect better than zegras/necas. Players can always be had at the right price. Who would have thought Weber was available when we got him? Or even Dach? Hopefully Hugo has a little more intel then us fans have and can get creative somehow.

I also don't think it's wise to make a trade just to make a trade. If nobody else available, we can afford another year before we make that big splash in my opinion. My primary concern this year is freeing up more icetime for our LD. And keeping forward slots open for guys like Roy and/or whoever else may surprise us this year. Don't necessarily need to make a big trade to make that happen

I think you're tilting against something nobody has said. Namely, no one has said to trade Dach for anyone. Also it isn't a trade for the sake of making a trade -- far from it. It is to leverage a position of strength (LD) to acquire help in a position of weakness (F). You can disagree about the relative values and worthiness of certain players, that's fair enough.

I don't think keeping a top6 spot open for Joshua Roy (9pts in 23gp in the NHL, below PPG in the AHL) is how a reasonable NHL team would approach a season they don't plan to squander.

 

[Deebs]

Laine is definitely someone I'm willing to target. As you say, top priority is that he's okay after entering the players' assistance program. And the other is that hopefully he's healthy because he's dealt with injuries the last two years.

Last year he missed almost the whole year. He only played 18 games. But his previous two seasons in Columbus has shown that he is still a goal scorer and point getter, something the Habs really need:

2021-22: 56 pts (26G, 30A) in 56 GP. PPG player and on pace for 38 goals and 82 pts.
2022-23: 52 pts (22G, 30A) in 55 GP. Just under a PPG player and on pace for 31 goals and 76 pts.

I'd do it.....Andy for Laine straight across. We take on the higher cap hit, Jackets eat the extra year. Add a pick if need be

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I would love to add Nikolaj Ehlers to our team if we can't get Necas. In his last 236 games, he produced 200 points with a +55. Of course he's a little bit injury prone but I would check what could be the cost of acquisition.

Ehlers-Suzuki-Slafkovski
Caufield-Dach-5OV
Newhook-Beck-Roy

My order of preference would be the following:

Necas
Ehlers
Zegras

Laine

Check out how much Ehlers sucks in the playoffs.

 

[EveryDay]

Check out how much Ehlers sucks in the playoffs.

I know he does but at least he's helping you to get there. We badly need offence, do you have a better solution? Marchesseault? Teravainen?

 

[sampollock]

Check out how much Ehlers sucks in the playoffs.

AGREED

 

[ReHabs]

Check out how much Ehlers sucks in the playoffs.

Monahan too, eh

I'd do it.....Andy for Laine straight across. We take on the higher cap hit, Jackets eat the extra year. Add a pick if need be

They'd get better offers than a single player who can at best be described as 'literally awful'. But I admire your audacity.

 

[Deebs]

Monahan too, eh


They'd get better offers than a single player who can at best be described as 'literally awful'. But I admire your audacity.

Trash for Trash....call and see what happens. Not many teams can take on that type of cap hit

 

[ReHabs]

Trash for Trash....call and see what happens. Not many teams can take on that type of cap hit

Laine isn't trash... He was out this past season but he's still rather young (do YOU remember being 25? I was a massive shithead, personally) and has a significantly better CV than Anderson. His 9pts in 18gp this season would be Anderson's dream scoring rate, only once in his career has he ever gotten over 0.5ppg.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I know he does but at least he's helping you to get there. We badly need offence, do you have a better solution? Marchesseault? Teravainen?

Keeping the assets is better than trading for Ehlers.

Monahan too, eh


They'd get better offers than a single player who can at best be described as 'literally awful'. But I admire your audacity.

Yeah, but Monahan is "free" if they want to add someone at least.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'd see them having to use a retention slot to get any significant hockey trade. So Anderson for Laine no retention on either side is a fair offer.

They will probably just retain. They didn't want to give Anderson the contract we gave him which is why he got traded.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Hockey fans be like: BellLetsTalk and all that but god help someone who gets treated for mental health issues... them be red flags, incurable, unforgivable, unforgettable red flags!

Here’s the deal though. Montreal Canadiens don’t owe Laine anything. He’s not a Hab, these issues didn’t develop while he was a member of the organization. It’s an outside issue, by inserting yourself your now making it an internal issue and spending resources to try and address the issue.

In the realm of professional sports, athletes need to be at their absolute peak both physically and mentally in order to perform at the level expected of them. Acquiring a player with issues in either realm requires extensive vetting in order to determine if you think the player can be rehabilitated , and in a case where your trading for the player, how to factor in what is the perceived risk-vs-reward - what’s the max your willing to pay/invest into the player?

Laine’s mental health struggles spans many years, and now atleast two NHL organizations. One would like to think those organizations have provided adequate support and treatment to the player, if not that’s a separate issue…

Mental health is not something that is easily diagnosed or treated, in some cases the person will simply never function like a neurotypical person does in teams of capacity.

This isn’t a guy flipping burgers that just needs some SSRI’s to get by, it’s a heavy investment.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I think Laine would be eaten alive here. He needs the right environment and I don’t think Montreal is it.

There are different ways of improving a roster. The tried and true method is to draft the best players you can and develop them properly.

Remember when everyone felt we should trade Price and keep Halak? You have to think long term. We’re not a cup contender so why the rush?

Half hearted rebuilds don’t work. Getting Zegras doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when we’ve got guys here who we’re trying to develop. Why wouldn’t we wait to see what we have before making those kinds of moves? Give Roy and Dach and Newhook all the opportunities you can. Look what happened when Slaf moved up with Nick and CC… why would we get someone to put ahead of Roy now when he’s finally ready for the next step?

That’s not how rebuilds work.

Honestly, I think Laine could actually work here.

Part of the problem is expectations. A Laine trade wouldn't have a prohibitive acquisition cost (the same way a comparable player in Zegras would) and he wouldn't be billed as a saviour or fix.

It really depends on the cost (and if Laine would even want to come to Montreal) though, but I'd much rather give up a Dvorak/Anderson and Struble/Harris plus another minor piece or two for Laine than Guhle/Reinbacher + for Zegras.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Honestly, I think Laine could actually work here.

Part of the problem is expectations. A Laine trade wouldn't have a prohibitive acquisition cost (the same way a comparable player in Zegras would) and he wouldn't be billed as a saviour or fix.

It really depends on the cost (and if Laine would even want to come to Montreal) though, but I'd much rather give up a Dvorak/Anderson and Struble/Harris plus another minor piece or two for Laine than Guhle/Reinbacher + for Zegras.

Don’t forget the 8.7 cap hit. Remember what happened in Toronto when they got Tavares?

Right now we’ve got a good cost structure. Guys will likely be hesitant to negotiate much beyond Nick. But when you start adding guys who make more, then greed kicks in.

And as our most expensive player, he’d some in with huge pressure. This is not the right market. I think he’d struggle mentally and you know that people here would be all over him on his first slump.

 

[Archijerej]

Laine could be an excellent trade target. Out of the names available on the market, he's likely the closest to being a potential impact player and he's probably the only one that would not require a core asset in a trade.

And yes, as long as Matheson is our best defenseman, he's a core piece until replaced by someone else.

Dumping Anderson to balance the salary in such a trade is just a cherry on top. We could actually start rebuilding our bottom-6 as soon as this offseason.

Even if Laine completely flops here, it's just a 2-year deal compared to Anderson's 3 and the assets given up would not affect our rebuild in any critical way.

 

[Rapala]

Perron at age 36 for 1 year? I won't complain about it



All about the numbers. Do that Math

I thought Perron was terrible for Detroit down the stretch. He did exactly nothing against us.

 

[Saundies]

Laine could be an excellent trade target. Out of the names available on the market, he's likely the closest to being a potential impact player and he's probably the only one that would not require a core asset in a trade.

And yes, as long as Matheson is our best defenseman, he's a core piece until replaced by someone else.

Dumping Anderson to balance the salary in such a trade is just a cherry on top. We could actually start rebuilding our bottom-6 as soon as this offseason.

Even if Laine completely flops here, it's just a 2-year deal compared to Anderson's 3 and the assets given up would not affect our rebuild in any critical way.

So I guess he's not a core piece? Because he's not our best defenseman.

You actually have to be good at playing defense to be a good defenseman.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I hope we get one of these players this summer:
- Laine
- Zegras
- Stamkos
- Necas