HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[The Gr8 Dane]

Man...let's just tank again , so much easier

 

[Kents polished head]

Lebrun reporting that Hughes is only considering UFAs on short term deals.

If this is true, it makes total sense and places the Habs firmly in the “depth pieces” bracket of this year’s current crop of UFAs

Define "depth pieces".

I think we already have more than enough "depth pieces" as things stand right now. Plus, guys like Dakota Joshua are probably expected to try and cash in on a long term deal after what was a career year for him. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's Elliotte Friedman who said that this summer, "depth players" like Joshua and William Carrier were going to be likely to get paid.

I think you're more looking at second-tier offensive guys on a "prove-me" contracts, or players who would have an incentive to sign a short-term contract like a 36 years old Perron.

One guy I didn't mention and who would fall into this category (and was mentionned by someone else here) is Vik Arvidsson.

In short, I don't think this team can afford to add yet another "depth player" on that mix. We already have too many of those (Evans, Pezzetta, RHP, Armia, Anderson, Gallagher, Roy, Heineman, Dvorak, Ylonen...)

 

[sampollock]

Laine only has 2 years left and the habs have a ton of cap space. The contract isn't really a problem.

man I would try this out. could he hit 40 goals? I bet he could. what a 2nd line winger that would be.
CBJ lets move him. All kidding aside, I hope 1st that he is ok.

 

[sampollock]

if Math can be traded in a package for a young top line player, do it.

this board every game (and with due cause) complains on Math on how he is so bad defense.
So move him when his value is so high.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Id rather Perron @ 1 year deal than Toffoli @ 3yrs, personally.

Better temporary fit, less risk, likely smaller cap hit.

Perron at age 36 for 1 year? I won't complain about it

if Math can be traded in a package for a young top line player, do it.

this board every game (and with due cause) complains on Math on how he is so bad defense.
So move him when his value is so high.

All about the numbers. Do that Math

 

[Egresch]

Perron is 36. 1 year deal? Sure but why? I rather sign Toffoli and/or Monahan for 3 years.

Both Toffoli and Monahan are slow and they might not age well. I do not want any term above 2y for any of those UFAs. In next couple seasons I want to see Roy get more icetime and we will have 5OA and 2025 draft pick who will probably be another forward (good F depth of that draft). Also Beck, Kapanen might get there chance to play center for us.

 

[Miller Time]

I was just saying there's a fairly significant period of time where health/durability was a concern, so much so that he wasn't able to secure a more lucrative or lengthy contract last summer.

I get it.
But you could also say two years ago his team traded a first just to get rid of him...

At this point, the most recent evolution of his situation is that he completed a healthy, productive season. Referencing the year prior or two years to highlight durability concerns, while ignoring the past season, seems odd to me.

Credit to him he played 83 games + playoffs, which is why I think he's going to be looking for a very rewarding contract.

Indeed. Though for several reasons, I bet his first priority is "fit" (as he defines it, not suggesting I know exactly how he would, but some mix of city/coaches/teammates/role opportunity etc.) rather than a narrow focus on top $.

We know full well that players often spurn the "best" financial offer for a lesser offer in a situation/city they prefer. Lots of reasons point to Monahan viewing a return to Montreal as a desired destination, imo.

Sure they “can” afford, whether or not they should is another story. I'm just not about committing long term salary for short term options.

If he's not in the top 6 year 1 of his deal, he wont be in subsequent years and I'm not enthused at the idea of paying a 3rd line luxury option up to 5M/yr.

Fair.
I think you might be surprised and in need of resetting your "luxury" reference point after this summer.

Big cap increase this year is going to raise the bar on UFA deals I would imagine.

I'm not totally against it, especially if they can get him for 2 years max all while ridding themselves of Dvorak in the process.

2 yrs would be great indeed. Ditto offloading Dvorak.

Agreed but I think Hughes is looking at a different age bracket when it comes to adding external assets.

See Dach trade, see Newhook trade.

Different asset targets.
I agree that our main offseason targets are likely in the early-mid 20's, "untapped ceiling" category...

But I also think we will see a shift to targetting specific roster veteran additions as we move into the next "phase" of the roster building process. KH has basically said as much. Not "win now", but not the opposite either.

If the right fit is there, a vet UFA on a 2-4year deal this summer won't surprise me at all.

Agreed he wouldn't be my #1 priority, i’d circle back later in the offseason if he's still available, but it would have to be 2 year term max for me.

I'm generally a more risk tolerant person, which apparently extends to imaginary roster building

 

[Habs Halifax]

Both Toffoli and Monahan are slow and they might not age well. I do not want any term above 2y for any of those UFAs. In next couple seasons I want to see Roy get more icetime and we will have 5OA and 2025 draft pick who will probably be another forward (good F depth of that draft). Also Beck, Kapanen might get there chance to play center for us.

Roy will get more ice time even if we bring in one top 6F. Newhook is not a full time top 6F and when you look at the top 9, we are missing a few players. And there is a gap from Roy to others and the guy we take in this draft. Signing a UFA for 2/3 years does not block anybody. Just got to sign the right guy that doesn't disappear or fade.

 

[417]

Define "depth pieces".

I think we already have more than enough "depth pieces" as things stand right now. Plus, guys like Dakota Joshua are probably expected to try and cash in on a long term deal after what was a career year for him. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's Elliotte Friedman who said that this summer, "depth players" like Joshua and William Carrier were going to be likely to get paid.

I think you're more looking at second-tier offensive guys on a "prove-me" contracts, or players who would have an incentive to sign a short-term contract like a 36 years old Perron.

One guy I didn't mention and who would fall into this category (and was mentionned by someone else here) is Vik Arvidsson.

In short, I don't think this team can afford to add yet another "depth player" on that mix. We already have too many of those (Evans, Pezzetta, RHP, Armia, Anderson, Gallagher, Roy, Heineman, Dvorak, Ylonen...)

I haven't looked at the extensive UFA list but I was referring to really bottom tier depth players, guys kike Joshua are probably going to be priced out.

I could see someone like Sam Lafferty for example.

 

[Egresch]

Roy will get more ice time even if we bring in one top 6F. Newhook is not a full time top 6F and when you look at the top 9, we are missing a few players. And there is a gap from Roy to others and the guy we take in this draft. Signing a UFA for 2/3 years does not block anybody. Just got to sign the right guy that doesn't disappear or fade.

We already have Newhook, Dach, Roy for middle 6 role. I expect one more trade for young F (realistically Kakko). Armia can play 3rd line . If he and Evans continue with their recent performance I would consider extending them both at least to stabilize our PK. Then, you will have Perron to bridge you one year before our 5OA is ready next season. We already have Gallagher and Anderson as anchor contracts for next 3 seasons.

 

[Kents polished head]

I haven't looked at the extensive UFA list but I was referring to really bottom tier depth players, guys kike Joshua are probably going to be priced out.

I could see someone like Sam Lafferty for example.

I think we already have too many of those. Might as well sign nobody if it's the case.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think we already have too many of those. Might as well sign nobody if it's the case.

Not to mention two bottom 6 spots (third line minutes) are occupied by Anderson and Gallagher long term lol.

Its not like the organization is gonna bury these guys on the fourth line

 

[Adam Michaels]

man I would try this out. could he hit 40 goals? I bet he could. what a 2nd line winger that would be.
CBJ lets move him. All kidding aside, I hope 1st that he is ok.

Laine is definitely someone I'm willing to target. As you say, top priority is that he's okay after entering the players' assistance program. And the other is that hopefully he's healthy because he's dealt with injuries the last two years.

Last year he missed almost the whole year. He only played 18 games. But his previous two seasons in Columbus has shown that he is still a goal scorer and point getter, something the Habs really need:

2021-22: 56 pts (26G, 30A) in 56 GP. PPG player and on pace for 38 goals and 82 pts.
2022-23: 52 pts (22G, 30A) in 55 GP. Just under a PPG player and on pace for 31 goals and 76 pts.

 

[ReHabs]

Man...let's just tank again , so much easier

It's never the right time to make moves and take risks to improve the roster. We should squander Suzuki et al.'s careers like we did Carey Price and Markov's. Zegras? Necas? Laine? None of them will win us a cup by themselves, so we better not improve the roster at all and wait for... uh.. Sean Farrell and Filip Mešar. Gotta hold onto Matheson too, can't risk trading away a 30 year old at his highest value to pick up a young attacker... we might need him in five to ten years to win a playoff round.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Laine is definitely someone I'm willing to target. As you say, top priority is that he's okay after entering the players' assistance program. And the other is that hopefully he's healthy because he's dealt with injuries the last two years.

Last year he missed almost the whole year. He only played 18 games. But his previous two seasons in Columbus has shown that he is still a goal scorer and point getter, something the Habs really need:

2021-22: 56 pts (26G, 30A) in 56 GP. PPG player and on pace for 38 goals and 82 pts.
2022-23: 52 pts (22G, 30A) in 55 GP. Just under a PPG player and on pace for 31 goals and 76 pts.

I think Laine would be eaten alive here. He needs the right environment and I don’t think Montreal is it.

It's never the right time to make moves and take risks to improve the roster. We should squander Suzuki et al.'s careers like we did Carey Price and Markov's. Zegras? Necas? Laine? None of them will win us a cup by themselves, so we better not improve the roster at all and wait for... uh.. Sean Farrell and Filip Mešar. Gotta hold onto Matheson too, can't risk trading away a 30 year old at his highest value to pick up a young attacker... we might need him in five to ten years to win a playoff round.

There are different ways of improving a roster. The tried and true method is to draft the best players you can and develop them properly.

Remember when everyone felt we should trade Price and keep Halak? You have to think long term. We’re not a cup contender so why the rush?

Half hearted rebuilds don’t work. Getting Zegras doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when we’ve got guys here who we’re trying to develop. Why wouldn’t we wait to see what we have before making those kinds of moves? Give Roy and Dach and Newhook all the opportunities you can. Look what happened when Slaf moved up with Nick and CC… why would we get someone to put ahead of Roy now when he’s finally ready for the next step?

That’s not how rebuilds work.

 

[Saundies]

I know this is the "trade thread" and trades are fun, but I believe the prudent thing to do is practice a little more patience. One more year to give everyone a better look and see what we really have in Dach, Newhook, Barron, et tal... We've done a great job I believe in doing this rebuild thus far, I know it's hard at times for fans, but I want to see it through and not possibly derail it by jumping ahead too quickly like other teams have done on numerous occasions.

Next season is when we want to start putting our chips on the table, after we get a clearer picture of what this team really looks like, when healthy and with 1 more year under it's belts. Even Slaf who looks as promising as one can look, still has question marks as to what he really is going forward.

Now is not the time to step on the accelerator. If we can make moves that make sense as a fit for this team, both to it core and financially then sure, by all means go for it, but other than that, it's status quo IMO.

I personally am not moving Matheson unless we're getting a core piece back, period. We need him as much as anyone on this team, atleast for this upcoming season. You literally can't replace what he brings on and off the ice at that cap hit.

There's a balance.. I don't think anyone is suggesting we sell the farm and swing for homeruns. But we do have positions of strengths we can deal from to shore up other holes. The bolded point I have in your quote is what most fans in here I think are advocating for.

It's really easy as fans (maybe not Habs fans or Yankees fans.. but general fans) to say "just suck for another year and see where we're at." Athletes aren't wired that way, and too much losing is cancerous mentally. Ask the Sabres, Sens, Coyotes, etc. Guys want to win and compete, and see that the team is moving forward.

As for trading Matheson, my issues with him are documented a lot on this board so I won't go into that too much. But yes, I would absolutely trade him. The reasons you say you wouldn't make him attractive to other teams, and that makes him valuable. I don't consider him a core piece and if he can get us someone that will eventually be one, I'd do that 10/10.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Can't f***ing wait to see how these next 2-3 weeks play out at the draft and FA

 

[Saundies]

I think Laine would be eaten alive here. He needs the right environment and I don’t think Montreal is it.

There are different ways of improving a roster. The tried and true method is to draft the best players you can and develop them properly.

Remember when everyone felt we should trade Price and keep Halak? You have to think long term. We’re not a cup contender so why the rush?

Half hearted rebuilds don’t work. Getting Zegras doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when we’ve got guys here who we’re trying to develop. Why wouldn’t we wait to see what we have before making those kinds of moves? Give Roy and Dach and Newhook all the opportunities you can. Look what happened when Slaf moved up with Nick and CC… why would we get someone to put ahead of Roy now when he’s finally ready for the next step?

That’s not how rebuilds work.

We could have easily said the same thing about getting Dach and Newhook. I don't think anyone's advocating for not giving them opportunities. Right now, we 1 and 2/3 of a top 6, and that's where Zegras slots in.

You could give Roy that opportunity, sure, but there are no other forwards currently in our system that are good enough to hang there for 82 games. It makes no sense if Zegras is 28/29, in his Prime and may decline. No one is advocating to sign Reinhart or even Guentzel to that spot.

All of the players I see being pitched here are Dach/Newhook like situations which is the kind of trade we should still be looking for until our forward crop improves.

 

[JianYang]

Define "depth pieces".

I think we already have more than enough "depth pieces" as things stand right now. Plus, guys like Dakota Joshua are probably expected to try and cash in on a long term deal after what was a career year for him. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's Elliotte Friedman who said that this summer, "depth players" like Joshua and William Carrier were going to be likely to get paid.

I think you're more looking at second-tier offensive guys on a "prove-me" contracts, or players who would have an incentive to sign a short-term contract like a 36 years old Perron.

One guy I didn't mention and who would fall into this category (and was mentionned by someone else here) is Vik Arvidsson.

In short, I don't think this team can afford to add yet another "depth player" on that mix. We already have too many of those (Evans, Pezzetta, RHP, Armia, Anderson, Gallagher, Roy, Heineman, Dvorak, Ylonen...)

I assume it means the same as the past couple years with hugo in charge.

Sign/trade vets to short term deals with the vision to hopefully build them up and flip. Guys like monahan, dadonov, Pearson etc...

I don't think the Habs will change much in their approach this year.

 

[SwiftyHab]

 

[WeThreeKings]

good f***ing luck

 

[Kents polished head]

I assume it means the same as the past couple years with hugo in charge.

Sign/trade vets to short term deals with the vision to hopefully build them up and flip. Guys like monahan, dadonov, Pearson etc...

I don't think the Habs will change much in their approach this year.

If that's the goal, you sign a guy who's likely going to have some value, either for you or the team you deal him to. Not borderline NHL players.

A guy like Arvidsson would make a ton of sense. It's not like he'd rob any young guy of a top-6 spot, there's literally no candidate to play on the second line right now.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We could have easily said the same thing about getting Dach and Newhook. I don't think anyone's advocating for not giving them opportunities. Right now, we 1 and 2/3 of a top 6, and that's where Zegras slots in.

Trading for prospects makes sense when rebuilding. And we didn’t have the depth of prospects we do now. And Zegras is almost a 6 million dollar player. Completely different situation.

You could give Roy that opportunity, sure, but there are no other forwards currently in our system that are good enough to hang there for 82 games. It makes no sense if Zegras is 28/29, in his Prime and may decline. No one is advocating to sign Reinhart or even Guentzel to that spot.

We’re adding another top forward this year in the draft. We already have Nick, CC, Slaf, Dach, Roy, Newhook, Beck….

Why don’t we just see what they can do? Why not give it a year and re-evaluate based on performance next year? Why would I push a guy like Roy back when he’s shown nothing but promise?

All of the players I see being pitched here are Dach/Newhook like situations which is the kind of trade we should still be looking for until our forward crop improves.

How will that crop improve if you trade for players and use them ahead of them? Why trade for a guy who will push Roy to the third line?

Just let our guys show what they can do. Let’s say - Dach goes down again - then we can re-evaluate later.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I think Laine would be eaten alive here. He needs the right environment and I don’t think Montreal is it.

There are different ways of improving a roster. The tried and true method is to draft the best players you can and develop them properly.

Remember when everyone felt we should trade Price and keep Halak? You have to think long term. We’re not a cup contender so why the rush?

Half hearted rebuilds don’t work. Getting Zegras doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when we’ve got guys here who we’re trying to develop. Why wouldn’t we wait to see what we have before making those kinds of moves? Give Roy and Dach and Newhook all the opportunities you can. Look what happened when Slaf moved up with Nick and CC… why would we get someone to put ahead of Roy now when he’s finally ready for the next step?

That’s not how rebuilds work.

You could say this at any point at any time though. This could easily be spun as 'Why trade a 13th overall for a player who's not trending well like Dach? Let's pick a player and develop him instead and see what we have.'

Same with Newhook. And this has nothing to do with Zegras himself. Look at a team like Florida. They didn't just sit there and make picks. They went out and actually built a team. Same with another contender like Dallas. The tanking odds have changed. The draft isn't the only way to build a team and you can always talk yourself into 'next time' and keep losing.

 

[HabbyGuy]

There's a balance.. I don't think anyone is suggesting we sell the farm and swing for homeruns. But we do have positions of strengths we can deal from to shore up other holes. The bolded point I have in your quote is what most fans in here I think are advocating for.

It's really easy as fans (maybe not Habs fans or Yankees fans.. but general fans) to say "just suck for another year and see where we're at." Athletes aren't wired that way, and too much losing is cancerous mentally. Ask the Sabres, Sens, Coyotes, etc. Guys want to win and compete, and see that the team is moving forward.

As for trading Matheson, my issues with him are documented a lot on this board so I won't go into that too much. But yes, I would absolutely trade him. The reasons you say you wouldn't make him attractive to other teams, and that makes him valuable. I don't consider him a core piece and if he can get us someone that will eventually be one, I'd do that 10/10.

Good post. I'm not diagreeing with a majority of it, including Matheson. If we can move him for a core piece, I'm fine with it, but if the player we obtain for him isn't clearly identified as such, I won't do it. It's crazy how under appreciated he is by this fan base. He's doing a yeoman's job at buying time for our D to develop and producing at the same rate at a fantastic price, atleast one more year for Mike is needed imo.

As for sucking for one more year, I don't necessarily believe we will "suck' this year, and the only way to know exactly what our needs are going forward, is giving them a little more time to see definitively what we have. A heathy Dach and Newhook for a full season could prove revelational. Giving Barron a little more time to see if he can put it together is also important to us. He could solve alot of issues and open up many options (trade and roster wise) if he does.

I just feel now is not the time to push this too quickly, we're getting close but the picture isn't entirely clear. One more year isn't going to kill us, I'd argue it's the more beneficial route.

I totally expect organic improvement this season, and we'll be much better than most assume.