HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Colezuki]

Let's hope the hockey gods go a little easier on us this year.
I think Dach will make a difference......especially on the PP.
We get another skilled forward in Dach out there, and the PP gets better and wins us a few more of those one goal games

Could he make another trade to add to the top 6 so we then add that player and Dach?
The one goal games, and many losses has me thinking we are getting closer.

I agree, I think the thing to remember is this team has essentially hobbled along with a top 6 of 3 guys for the last 2 years,

at the start of this year these we're the only three that we thought we're

Dach, Suzuki, Cole,

Now I think we can add Slaf to that list, + Newhook and Roy as Middle 6er's

adding Dach + another is a big upgrade on the last two years where we've struggled

 

[JT3]

Friendly reminder that Rafael Harvey-Pinard was tried on the top-6 at times last season. Rafael f***ing Harvey-Pinard.

I don't think people here realize just how far off we are when they spit at the idea of acquiring guys like Necas, Marner ou Ehlers.

I guess we got accustomed so much to watching shit hockey as a fanbase that we lost touch with reality.

Definitely too many people scoffing at talent in favour of 'playoff warriors'. Not that I'm in favour of going out and getting whoever (I'm not really interested in Ehlers, and not enamored with Necas but wouldn't be upset), but if you have a shot at getting someone like Marner or Zegras (cost dependent, like any transaction), you do it. Either of them would/could be the most talented forward we've had for the last 30 frickin years.

You need to build a team with a mix of different skillsets, you can't just go out and only target proven 'playoff warriors'. Those types of players tend to either be extremely expensive to acquire, old, or flat out not available. You build your core first with a mix of different skillsets and then when you're close to contention you can sprinkle in some size and grit or whatever else you might be missing. See Tampa Bay, they built their core and then went out and acquired the size and grit they were missing in Goodrow, Coleman, McDonagh, etc.

 

[Miller Time]

Agreed that if you're a Cup contender you're not looking to sign Monahan for 4+ years at 5M+, which means that Monahan would either be looking for a short term deal from a contender (which the Habs are obviously not) or a long term deal from non-contenders (which the Habs aren't looking to do right now).

I just have a feeling that the folks who want Monahan wants so more because of Habs nostalgia than anything else. I mentioned in an earlier post but he was like found money and for the 2 years he was with the Habs he was great and returned them 2 1st round picks.

Those are warm and fuzzy feelings which I get, but it's not like he was helping us avoid being a bottom dwelling team. He doesn't move the needle at this stage of his career, is it wise to invest those salary dollars in a player with that injury history whose probably already reached the peak of his game?

3 years at around 4-5M, you're going to find that deal long 1 year from now, I can almost guarantee it. We're already trying to rid ourselves of washed vets like Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia...while Monahan is a better player than them right now, that's a whole lot of money invested in veterans who aren't moving the needle.

You already have a poor man's version of Sean Monahan signed for 1 more year at 4.25M whose contract is expiring.

It's a pass for me.

I disagree.

Monahan is a great fit for a number of reasons.

The injury fear is overstated... Unless someone has actual medical insight pointing to certainty that his previous injuries & recovery are going to deteriorate.

What we do know, is that he played a full season at a quality & productive middle 6 level, including playing 17+ min in 15/20 games to finish the season (including playoffs).

We also know that he was a great fit in our locker room, highly appreciated and regarded by coaching staff and teammates, and took an active mentor role with our talented young forwards.

Most importantly, we have a clear need for depth/secondary scoring... The type of which is easiest added by known veteran players (vs gambling on unproven youth). Monahan of this past season is a perfect fit for our middle 6, including his versatility and willingness to play any forward position, and his demonstrated team-first mindset (year 3-4, if he's surpassed by youth, he's shown he can and will remain a reliable leader even if relegated to 4th line role)

Habs medical staff will have as good insight as anyone on how well his surgical repairs will hold up. He is diminished from what he was in his early 20's, no doubt, but If the recovery we saw this season is sustainable (rather than a high expectation of rapid degeneration), than a 3-4 year deal for a 29/30 year old player who has demonstrated his commitment to rehab & recovery is not a concern imo.

Markov & Koivu are two Habs examples of players who came back from devastating injuries and extended their careers successfully into their mid 30's.... League is full of them. Not all catastrophic/career-altering injuries preclude a player from resuming and extending their careers.

 

[Kents polished head]

Let's hope the hockey gods go a little easier on us this year.
I think Dach will make a difference......especially on the PP.
We get another skilled forward in Dach out there, and the PP gets better and wins us a few more of those one goal games

Could he make another trade to add to the top 6 so we then add that player and Dach?
The one goal games, and many losses has me thinking we are getting closer.

I'm really skeptical of the impact Dach can have in this rebuild after such a serious injury at such a crucial time.

I cross my fingers but I'm not overly optimistic.

Mind you I'm a guy half-empty kind of guy. So here's hoping.

In fact I'm possibly higher than most on Newhook and lower than most on Dach.

 

[417]

I disagree.

Monahan is a great fit for a number of reasons.

The injury fear is overstated... Unless someone has actual medical insight pointing to certainty that his previous injuries & recovery are going to deteriorate.

What we do know, is that he played a full season at a quality & productive middle 6 level, including playing 17+ min in 15/20 games to finish the season (including playoffs).

Whether or not it's overstated, it's there, it exists and it's why the Habs were able to sign him to a 1yr/2M deal last offseason. Now it's great he was healthy this past season and was productive playing a middle 6 role.

But if things go according to plan for the Habs over the length of this proposed 3 year deal, is Sean Monahan a top 6 option for the Habs? I would hope that not, which means that we're paying a guy 4-5M/yr as a luxury option on the 3rd line.

If we didn't have contracts we're already trying to unload on the roster (Gallagher, Anderson) then sure...great luxury to have,

But given the extensions guys like Slafkovsky and Guhle are going to sign in the very near future, i'd rather keep those salary dollars to invest in guys who are part of the core.

We also know that he was a great fit in our locker room, highly appreciated and regarded by coaching staff and teammates, and took an active mentor role with our talented young forwards.

Most importantly, we have a clear need for depth/secondary scoring... The type of which is easiest added by known veteran players (vs gambling on unproven youth). Monahan of this past season is a perfect fit for our middle 6, including his versatility and willingness to play any forward position, and his demonstrated team-first mindset (year 3-4, if he's surpassed by youth, he's shown he can and will remain a reliable leader even if relegated to 4th line role)

I won't deny that from a mentorship point of view, he's a solid add...I just think that's heavy of an invest for me given where this roster is now and where we ideally see it going.

Habs medical staff will have as good insight as anyone on how well his surgical repairs will hold up. He is diminished from what he was in his early 20's, no doubt, but If the recovery we saw this season is sustainable (rather than a high expectation of rapid degeneration), than a 3-4 year deal for a 29/30 year old player who has demonstrated his commitment to rehab & recovery is not a concern imo.

Markov & Koivu are two Habs examples of players who came back from devastating injuries and extended their careers successfully into their mid 30's.... League is full of them. Not all catastrophic/career-altering injuries preclude a player from resuming and extending their careers.

I'm not saying his injuries are catastrophic or that he's not a still very solid veteran middle 6C.

I just don't think it fits in the window of what the Habs are trying to do and i'd be surprised if management sees it differently, you've got guys like Armia, Dvorak and Savard potentially all coming off the books at the conclusion of next season and the Habs have hinted at the summer of 25' being an important summer, which makes a lot of sense given the salary dollars they will have freed up and the fact it will be the last year they have to put Price contract on LTIR.

I think it would be more prudent for the Habs to invest long term dollars in long term core players.

That's just me, but it's not like I think it would be a horrible move, it's not a bad shout, especially if you're unsure of Dach (I'm not for the record, but he's far from a “sure” thing)...just not what i'd be looking at right now.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Definitely too many people scoffing at talent in favour of 'playoff warriors'. Not that I'm in favour of going out and getting whoever (I'm not really interested in Ehlers, and not enamored with Necas but wouldn't be upset), but if you have a shot at getting someone like Marner or Zegras (cost dependent, like any transaction), you do it. Either of them would/could be the most talented forward we've had for the last 30 frickin years.

You need to build a team with a mix of different skillsets, you can't just go out and only target proven 'playoff warriors'. Those types of players tend to either be extremely expensive to acquire, old, or flat out not available. You build your core first with a mix of different skillsets and then when you're close to contention you can sprinkle in some size and grit or whatever else you might be missing. See Tampa Bay, they built their core and then went out and acquired the size and grit they were missing in Goodrow, Coleman, McDonagh, etc.

Somehow the nebulous commenter hates talent but also want playoff players. How can a player be a playoff performer without also being talented? Who knows. Farmers had better watch out with how many strawmen are being slayed these days.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Somehow the nebulous commenter hates talent but also want playoff players. How can a player be a playoff performer without also being talented? Who knows. Farmers had better watch out with how many strawmen are being slayed these days.

Honestly, this entire debate is dumb. Its all about the right mix.

Do you need "playoff warriors" to win? Yes.

Does the lack of success of guys like Necas, Marner and Ehlers in the playoffs mean they can't be core parts of a winning team? Not neccessarily. It means that they don't work on the teams they're on now, which could just as easily be down to usage or team makeup.

Does Montreal need to acquire guys like Necas, Marner or Ehlers this offseason? Not necessarily. It depends on the cost, but it could end up being counterproductive to actually building a contender.

We 're entering the 3rd offseason with this management group, and we currently have 3 forwards under 25 who have demonstrated the a level of ability and durability to play at a top-6 level on a good team and 1 D under the age of 30 who can play at a top-2/4 D level. Montreal may (should) improve next season, but a vocal portion of fans on here have been saying there's no way Montreal finishes bottom 5 again since the start of the 2022-2023 season. Montreal's still not close to being a playoff contender and its important to consider cost and long term benefit of making a splashy move now. No need to jump to extreme positions.

 

[Miller Time]

Whether or not it's overstated, it's there, it exists and it's why the Habs were able to sign him to a 1yr/2M deal last offseason. Now it's great he was healthy this past season and was productive playing a middle 6 role.

Last summer he was coming off of an injury shortened season... Not an 83 game + playoffs. Not the same at all.

But if things go according to plan for the Habs over the length of this proposed 3 year deal, is Sean Monahan a top 6 option for the Habs? I would hope that not, which means that we're paying a guy 4-5M/yr as a luxury option on the 3rd line.

I don't think he's "top 6" in year 1.

He ideally slots in at 3C, unless they want to keep Newhook at C.(with Dvorak moved if possible).

Imo, With Dach/Newhook/J.Roy all top 9 and on bargain deals, and our overall cap structure, we can afford the "luxury" even with the Anderson/Gally anchors.

If they target and land some other big fish, then sure, might not work... But aside from that, it's very reasonable and fits our needs & cap situation imo.

If we didn't have contracts we're already trying to unload on the roster (Gallagher, Anderson) then sure...great luxury to have,

But given the extensions guys like Slafkovsky and Guhle are going to sign in the very near future, i'd rather keep those salary dollars to invest in guys who are part of the core.

Doesn't preclude that at all.

I won't deny that from a mentorship point of view, he's a solid add...I just think that's heavy of an invest for me given where this roster is now and where we ideally see it going.

I'm not saying his injuries are catastrophic or that he's not a still very solid veteran middle 6C.

I just don't think it fits in the window of what the Habs are trying to do and i'd be surprised if management sees it differently, you've got guys like Armia, Dvorak and Savard potentially all coming off the books at the conclusion of next season and the Habs have hinted at the summer of 25' being an important summer, which makes a lot of sense given the salary dollars they will have freed up and the fact it will be the last year they have to put Price contract on LTIR.

Upcoming expiring UFA deals give us:
+ 10M next summer
+ 14M summer of '26
+ Existing 9M$ this year
+ Any further cap increases.

Adding a quality veteran middle 6 asset at ~5M$ fits, even with internal RFA extension ls and a big ticket add next summer.

KH has done a masterful job setting is up to make a few key adds over the next 2-3 seasons. Wether Monahan is the best fit or not for one of those adds depends on many factors, but it definitely works.

I think it would be more prudent for the Habs to invest long term dollars in long term core players.

Again, not a mitigating factor, we have the flexibility to both add external assets and extend internal ones.

That's just me, but it's not like I think it would be a horrible move, it's not a bad shout, especially if you're unsure of Dach (I'm not for the record, but he's far from a “sure” thing)...just not what i'd be looking at right now.

Agree here... Like Monahan, Dach should be able to recover and be reliably healthy the next few years.

But imo, it would be a mistake and not in line with their stated approach to start this year without at least 1 addition to our top 9. Monahan wouldn't be my #1 priority, but I bet he's on the list that KH will be exploring heavily.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Honestly, this entire debate is dumb. Its all about the right mix.

Do you need "playoff warriors" to win? Yes.

Does the lack of success of guys like Necas, Marner and Ehlers in the playoffs mean they can't be core parts of a winning team? Not neccessarily. It means that they don't work on the teams they're on now, which could just as easily be down to usage or team makeup.

Does Montreal need to acquire guys like Necas, Marner or Ehlers this offseason? Not necessarily. It depends on the cost, but it could end up being counterproductive to actually building a contender.

We 're entering the 3rd offseason with this management group, and we currently have 3 forwards under 25 who have demonstrated the a level of ability and durability to play at a top-6 level on a good team and 1 D under the age of 30 who can play at a top-2/4 D level. Montreal may (should) improve next season, but a vocal portion of fans on here have been saying there's no way Montreal finishes bottom 5 again since the start of the 2022-2023 season. Montreal's still not close to being a playoff contender and its important to consider cost and long term benefit of making a splashy move now. No need to jump to extreme positions.

Good post.

I'm not sure about us not being playoff contenders this year though. A lot went wrong for us last year. Dach got hurt immediately, CC didn't recover from surgery that way I thought he would...

Our D is still really green. I still think we'll miss the playoffs. But there's absolutely a chance of us making it. A full season of Dach, I expect good things from Roy, CC should get better results (maybe not 50 goals but at least 30+) and everyone is one year older.

Regardless, it's fun to watch the club develop. We were a pretty gutsy team last year finishing with a ton of one goal games. Dach HAS to have a healthy year. If he goes down again, the rebuild is a big step back.

I agree, I have us out outside the playoffs this year. But I don't think that we're "not close." I think in 25-26, we're in.

 

[JT3]

Somehow the nebulous commenter hates talent but also want playoff players. How can a player be a playoff performer without also being talented? Who knows. Farmers had better watch out with how many strawmen are being slayed these days.

People have literally said a billion times in this thread that there are a number of high skill players they wouldn't want because they don't have a history of elevating in the playoffs. Not sure where the strawman is. I can go back and get the receipts if you care that much.

Of course guys can be playoff performers without necessarily being referred to as talented. Barclay Goodrow and Dakota Joshua had big playoffs, I don't think anybody's first description of those guys would be 'talented'. Josh Anderson played a large part in winning us 3 or 4 games in 2021 (Leafs game 1, VGK game 3, TBL game 4), don't think anybody would call him particularly talented either. One common denominator between the 3 is they are all or will be overpaid. Look at Bryan Bickell, that guy didn't have much skill but had some big playoff runs and was given a terrible contract.

Now can you point me towards the multitude of talented playoff performs that are gonna be available this summer and can be had for a reasonable cost that isn't going to come back to bite us in the ass?

 

[waitin425]

Adding a Necas or Zegras (I refuse to include Marner, based on perceived cost) for some of our quality young depth would be a dynamite move.

Let's say we trade 26th + Beck + Harris for Necas or Zegras.

Dach returns and plays a full season.

With the 5th overall we select Lindstrom/Demidov.

How does this lineup look in 2025/26?

Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield
Necas/Zegras - Dach - Lindstrom/Demidov
Heinemen - Newhook - Roy
Anderson - Kapanen - Gally

 

[JT3]

Honestly, this entire debate is dumb. Its all about the right mix.

Do you need "playoff warriors" to win? Yes.

Does the lack of success of guys like Necas, Marner and Ehlers in the playoffs mean they can't be core parts of a winning team? Not neccessarily. It means that they don't work on the teams they're on now, which could just as easily be down to usage or team makeup.

Does Montreal need to acquire guys like Necas, Marner or Ehlers this offseason? Not necessarily. It depends on the cost, but it could end up being counterproductive to actually building a contender.

We 're entering the 3rd offseason with this management group, and we currently have 3 forwards under 25 who have demonstrated the a level of ability and durability to play at a top-6 level on a good team and 1 D under the age of 30 who can play at a top-2/4 D level. Montreal may (should) improve next season, but a vocal portion of fans on here have been saying there's no way Montreal finishes bottom 5 again since the start of the 2022-2023 season. Montreal's still not close to being a playoff contender and its important to consider cost and long term benefit of making a splashy move now. No need to jump to extreme positions.

This pretty much sums up the point I was trying to make in the first place, cheers.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

We need a few

We badly need a play driver, someone who can skate with the puck. We have a lot of players that want the puck off there stick shortly after they get it (Gallagher, RHP, Pez) or players that thrive on reviving it and shooting it shortly after. (Caufield, Newhook) Slaf falls between both but is good a possession as is Armia, but both usually don’t move a ton when they have the puck but rather protect it, which is great. But the only real puck carrying forwards we have are Suzuki, Dach and to a lesser and more inefficient extent Anderson

We need a few of them, particularly at forward. This is a team sport, and the teams that go deep into the playoffs also have many, such as the Canes and Panthers. Even the Oilers had to surround McDavid and Draisaitl with 2-3 more top-9 players and better defenders to get to the finals. The Habs forward corps is in a deep hole, in relation to these teams.

 

[Habs Icing]

Assuming the Habs aren't on the cusp of making the playoffs come next Feb/March (whenever trade deadline is), Armia, Dvorak and Savard are going to be important trade chips the Habs can dangle for playoff teams.

Not that i'm expecting a premium return for them, but it's going to allow the Habs to accumulate more draft capital in terms of prospects and/or picks, because I have a feeling Summer of 25' is going to be a movie for this organization.

I hope you know that Evil Dead, Let The Right One In, A Quiet Place and Invasion of the Body Snatchers were all movies.

 

[overlords]

Let The Right One In

Only the original, though.

 

[Habs Icing]

Only the original, though.

That title was the original Swedish version but I didn't mind the Yankee version. It was pretty good.

 

[Habs Icing]

Let's hope the hockey gods go a little easier on us this year.

According to a Léger poll, Quebecers are predominately either agnostics or atheists. I think that explains the rash of the Canadiens' man-day losses. The hockey gods are out for revenge.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Adding a Necas or Zegras (I refuse to include Marner, based on perceived cost) for some of our quality young depth would be a dynamite move.

Let's say we trade 26th + Beck + Harris for Necas or Zegras.

Dach returns and plays a full season.

With the 5th overall we select Lindstrom/Demidov.

How does this lineup look in 2025/26?

Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield
Necas/Zegras - Dach - Lindstrom/Demidov
Heinemen - Newhook - Roy
Anderson - Kapanen - Gally

I don’t want us to trade for a Zegras. We don’t need to. Those kinds of trades can be made down the road. I’d much rather see what we have. If Dach gets hurt again? Okay. But not now.

 

[SOLR]

I disagree.

Monahan is a great fit for a number of reasons.

The injury fear is overstated... Unless someone has actual medical insight pointing to certainty that his previous injuries & recovery are going to deteriorate.

What we do know, is that he played a full season at a quality & productive middle 6 level, including playing 17+ min in 15/20 games to finish the season (including playoffs).

We also know that he was a great fit in our locker room, highly appreciated and regarded by coaching staff and teammates, and took an active mentor role with our talented young forwards.

Most importantly, we have a clear need for depth/secondary scoring... The type of which is easiest added by known veteran players (vs gambling on unproven youth). Monahan of this past season is a perfect fit for our middle 6, including his versatility and willingness to play any forward position, and his demonstrated team-first mindset (year 3-4, if he's surpassed by youth, he's shown he can and will remain a reliable leader even if relegated to 4th line role)

Habs medical staff will have as good insight as anyone on how well his surgical repairs will hold up. He is diminished from what he was in his early 20's, no doubt, but If the recovery we saw this season is sustainable (rather than a high expectation of rapid degeneration), than a 3-4 year deal for a 29/30 year old player who has demonstrated his commitment to rehab & recovery is not a concern imo.

Markov & Koivu are two Habs examples of players who came back from devastating injuries and extended their careers successfully into their mid 30's.... League is full of them. Not all catastrophic/career-altering injuries preclude a player from resuming and extending their careers.

No its not at all, in fact he missed a lot of time the season before. The guy is damaged goods, he's on his last leg (literally), we have to move on from such players. We got assets back, great. Now let's build this team with younger, healthier players.

 

[Canadienna]

I would love to know what teams are offering on Mike Matheson. He's such an enigma of a player.

 

[SOLR]

I would love to know what teams are offering on Mike Matheson. He's such an enigma of a player.

I think that's the base of a Necas deal. Carolina is in a bad spot with UFAs at D vs. overall cap.

Burns just doesn't have the fitness level to play the D on the PP anymore. Matheson is a logically better choice.

 

[Canadienna]

I think that's the base of a Necas deal.

If that's true, it's an instant trigger pull from me.

Acknowledging that our D will be green as grass, I think it still makes sense.

I worry that Matheson's value is too low to be the base of that deal due to his defensive lapses.

 

[SOLR]

If that's true, it's an instant trigger pull from me.

Acknowledging that our D will be green as grass, I think it still makes sense.

I worry that Matheson's value is too low to be the base of that deal due to his defensive lapses.

We would add, maybe it's Matheson AND Harris.

Carolina can surround Matheson well and the guy is 30, in his prime, perfect for a team that needs to win now.

The challenge for us on this, maybe Matheson sold gets more assets back than Matheson used to acquire a piece.

 

[sheed36]

I would love to know what teams are offering on Mike Matheson. He's such an enigma of a player.

Are there current rumors about teams calling the Habs asking about Matheson?

 

[Miller Time]

No its not at all, in fact he missed a lot of time the season before. The guy is damaged goods, he's on his last leg (literally), we have to move on from such players. We got assets back, great. Now let's build this team with younger, healthier players.

You mean "healthier younger players" like a 24yr old Monahan circa 2018?

Remember when Stamkos was "damaged goods" after his devastating injuries and slow recovery in his mid 20s?

Or Markov after he blew out his knee in his early 30's?

Sorry, but injuries in high performance sport don't operate the way you appear to think they do...