HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[417]

I seem to recall that not a single team with a player making $10M+ ever won the Cup (I could be wrong or it could have happen since I saw that). But there is something to be said about having a balance cap hit throughout the lineup. That is not to say that Necas shoudn't be paid $8M, but I want MTL to have a approach to the cap similar to Boston where there is hierarchy within the team, and not with the rest of the league.

Well there are only 17 players in the NHL who have a 10M+ cap hit in the NHL. I don't know how much that really means. With the cap rising, salaries will too so this fact will be obsolete sooner rather than later.

But regardless, any perspective salary for Martin Necas isn't going to unbalance the Habs salary structure.

The Boston thing existed under a different time, when the cap was at like 54M...last year the Boston Bruins had to pay Charlie MacAvoy market value when he was up for his deal, just like they did David Pastrnak.

There's really no such thing as an "internal cap" in today's NHL., revenues determine the salary cap, not an individual teams salary cap.

 

[Kosseca]

I assume you mean AAV and not actual salary in a season, because the latter has happened more than once (Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Eichel, Pietrangelo, Ovechkin). Eichel has also won a cup so the former is also incorrect (and unless Dallas wins the cup, McDavid, Bobrovsky and Barkov, or Panarin will join him). And considering that only 17 players have an AAV of 8 figures, its not all that meaningful.

Necas shouldn't be paid 8 mil for the same reason Dubois shouldn't be paid that amount, because he's nowhere near worth it.

Yes, it was AAV, which is the key number here.
I'm not sure when Mackinon contract kicked in too so that may be another example of this not being accurate anymore. Anyway, I recall seeing this some time ago... may have been longer back in time then I initially though.

That said, I agree 100% on your last statement.

 

[le_sean]

If Necas is getting 8 million, then Dach (who's contract expires in 2 years) will likely ask for that if not more because Necas got it. It's a lot of money for players who probably aren't going to be high end players.

Dach needs to stay healthy for a season before making demands. Maybe Necas is the one moved to centre to replace him. Or Lindstrom if we go that route.

 

[417]

If Necas was a star player then sure by all means, give him like 12 million, it's fine. The truth is that he's likely a 2nd liner on a cup contender, you can't just hand over whatever.

Necas isn't going to break the bank...he's going to sign in the 6.5-7.5M range.

Owen Tippett who is the same age and from the same class (Necas went #10, Tippett went #12) just had a 53pt season, which is the same as Necas this season, and Tippett signed for 8 years @ 6.2M/yr.

Now Necas is a bit more proven, so he's likely to command a bit more, but he's not going to command the salary of a top line winger.

These high-priced players are superstars more often than not, not 2nd liners. It makes a world of difference.

He's not going to break the bank.

Doesn't mean they should just give whatever for a player who won't put us over the top. It's the same thing with PLD last year.

Prior to this specific post, I hadn't even advanced what I thought would be a realistic salary for Necas...again, somewhere in the 7M range is more than reasonable for a player of his age, pedigree and potential.

That wouldn't break the bank for the Montreal Canadiens. By this time next season, the salary for Christian Dvorak and Joel Armia will come off the book and pay the value of Necas'.

If Necas is getting 8 million, then Dach (who's contract expires in 2 years) will likely ask for that if not more because Necas got it. It's a lot of money for players who probably aren't going to be high end players.

Assuming Necas makes 8M, which again, I don't think he will, and that Dach asks for 8M in 2 years than it will mean Dach will have blown up and by that time, Carey Price 10.5M deal will also be off the books, not to mention Josh Anderson's and Gallagher's not too far behind.

The Montreal Canadiens are in a really good spot in terms of salary cap in the coming years. There's really no issue.

 

[The Great Weal]

Dach needs to stay healthy for a season before making demands. Maybe Necas is the one moved to centre to replace him. Or Lindstrom if we go that route.

If the Canes who have no 2nd line center, aren't sold on Necas being the 2nd line center, what makes you think he'd overtake Dach with us?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yes, it was AAV, which is the key number here.
I'm not sure when Mackinon contract kicked in too so that may be another example of this not being accurate anymore. Anyway, I recall seeing this some time ago... may have been longer back in time then I initially though.

That said, I agree 100% on your last statement.

MacKinnon's was after. Realistically, 10 mil is just an arbitrary number that we give more significance because its the lowest eight figure amount. Contracts rise as the cap rises.

At the end of the day, its a question of if overpaying Necas will mean Montreal will need to overpay other guys. Like what happened with Tavares in Toronto or may happen in LA with Dubois. You need to really believe in Necas, which may be the case.

Personally, I'm actually more interested in the potential availability of Ehlers. I think he'd be cheaper in a trade, I don't think he'd cost more in salary and he's got a proven track record of absolutely killing it in 1B line role. Montreal may be able to get it done around Barron (his brother is on the Jets), Winnipeg's 1st and a veteran on an expiring deal Montreal can afford to move.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I don't know for Necas ,you still need assets to trade for him . I wouldnt give more money and terms than Suzuki who is 5x the player Necas is.

Would he fit in good 2nd line? Probably but the price is important here. Habs do have money but I think we should pass on and try to get rid of the Dvoraks Anderson Armia before making a major move. I count for 2025-2026 the habs to compete in the playoffs.

 

[The Great Weal]

Necas isn't going to break the bank...he's going to sign in the 6.5-7.5M range.

That's a fine range yes. There's reports that he's asking 8+ which is not something we should do for a second liner.

Owen Tippett who is the same age and from the same class (Necas went #10, Tippett went #12) just had a 53pt season, which is the same as Necas this season, and Tippett signed for 8 years @ 6.2M/yr.

Again, I'm more than fine with Necas making that kind of salary, I think he wants a lot more because otherwise, Carolina would have probably given that to him already.

Assuming Necas makes 8M, which again, I don't think he will, and that Dach asks for 8M in 2 years than it will mean Dach will have blown up and by that time, Carey Price 10.5M deal will also be off the books, not to mention Josh Anderson's and Gallagher's not too far behind.

I don't think Dach will need to have blown up to command that. He was on pace for 54 points before last year and had a noticeable improvement as the season went on. If Necas, who had 53 points in 77 games this past season gets the 8 million, Dach doesn't really need to be that much better than he's shown to ask for the same (or at least very similar) demands.

The Montreal Canadiens are in a really good spot in terms of salary cap in the coming years. There's really no issue.

Blowing it by paying Necas handsomely can most definitely hinder it. Oilers did the same thing with Nurse and that contract has been crippling for them.

 

[Goalfield13]

If the Canes who have no 2nd line center, aren't sold on Necas being the 2nd line center, what makes you think he'd overtake Dach with us?

The same Canes that signed KK at $4.8 mil for 8 years? The same Canes that let Trocheck walk? Yeah, who cares what the Canes think.

 

[The Great Weal]

The same Canes that signed KK at $4.8 mil for 8 years? The same Canes that let Trocheck walk? Yeah, who cares what the Canes think.

I don't get your point. KK has proven to not be good enough for the 2C position there which is why they don't play him as such. They didn't want to pay Trocheck but it doesn't mean they didn't think of him as a 2C.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The same Canes that signed KK at $4.8 mil for 8 years? The same Canes that let Trocheck walk? Yeah, who cares what the Canes think.

the KK thing was 100% a rage move from the Aho OS. Everyone in this board laughed when Carolina made that OS . That was the dumbest thing to do but then they gave him 8 freaking years.
KK will probably be bought out by Carolina this summer

 

[Goalfield13]

I don't get your point. KK has proven to not be good enough for the 2C position there which is why they don't play him as such. They didn't want to pay Trocheck but it doesn't mean they didn't think of him as a 2C.

My point is, I don't really care about their player evaluation.

 

[le_sean]

If the Canes who have no 2nd line center, aren't sold on Necas being the 2nd line center, what makes you think he'd overtake Dach with us?

I’m just talking about a solution if Dach doesn’t pan out. I expect him to pan out. If he does, who cares if he asks for a similar contract. At that point, we are golden.

If you want to be worried about contracts, worry about Gallagher at 6.5m and Anderson at 5.5m. They have zero upside.

 

[The Great Weal]

I’m just talking about a solution if Dach doesn’t pan out. I expect him to pan out. If he does, who cares if he asks for a similar contract. At that point, we are golden.

I don't think having 2nd liners make 8 million each means we are golden.

 

[Saundies]

That's a fine range yes. There's reports that he's asking 8+ which is not something we should do for a second liner.

Again, I'm more than fine with Necas making that kind of salary, I think he wants a lot more because otherwise, Carolina would have probably given that to him already.

I don't think Dach will need to have blown up to command that. He was on pace for 54 points before last year and had a noticeable improvement as the season went on. If Necas, who had 53 points in 77 games this past season gets the 8 million, Dach doesn't really need to be that much better than he's shown to ask for the same (or at least very similar) demands.

Blowing it by paying Necas handsomely can most definitely hinder it. Oilers did the same thing with Nurse and that contract has been crippling for them.

It's been hindering them because they also have a 12.5 million dollar player and a 8.5 million dollar player as well. We're not talking the same type of numbers as the Leafs and the Oilers.

Dach can be a great player but until he stays healthy and has an unreal season/earns a raise, he won't get one. Slaf took a huge step this year but I'm not ready to open the vault for him yet, either, and I'm sure Hughes and company also aren't until he builds on it.

Nobody wanted to pay Zach Hyman 5.5 million and look at his production. Sometimes guys take steps and become more than what they were with better opportunities.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I’m just talking about a solution if Dach doesn’t pan out. I expect him to pan out. If he does, who cares if he asks for a similar contract. At that point, we are golden.

I'd view Newhook is more a solution at C if Dach doesn't pan out than Necas.

Like, I know Necas was drafted as a center, but he is very clearly a winger in the NHL. He just looks like a winger and his strengths and weaknesses suggest wing is the best fit for him. I don't want to see Montreal once again trade for a player to address a need, which need would require the player to change what has made them successful.

 

[le_sean]

I don't think having 2nd liners make 8 million each means we are golden.

First of all, stop saying $8m. You’re pulling numbers out of your ass.

Second of all, he had 53 points last year, which was an off year. We had two forwards hit above 50. He hit over 70 points a season ago. We’ve had 3 players hit that mark in the last 15 seasons.

I just don’t get a team as offensively inept as ours complaining about paying good players. We don’t have the luxury to be picky. Our team sucks and has sucked for the better part of 30 seasons.

 

[417]

That's a fine range yes. There's reports that he's asking 8+ which is not something we should do for a second liner.

I mean he had 71pts just last year, so from a contractual demand and given his age/pedigree...8M is not an outrageous demand.

Does that mean he's going to get it? Maybe...maybe not.

It wouldn't be a non-starter for me and I don't really subscribe to this running theory that no one can make more than Suzuki.

If you identify Necas as a player that can help this team and it takes 8M.yr to sign him...sign me up.

Again, I'm more than fine with Necas making that kind of salary, I think he wants a lot more because otherwise, Carolina would have probably given that to him already.

Maybe, I was just basing it off a player who was in a similar situation, from the same class, same age, had the same exact points.

But as I said, Necas has more of a proven track record, so he probably is looking closer to 8M.

Again, I wouldn't say no.

I don't think Dach will need to have blown up to command that. He was on pace for 54 points before last year and had a noticeable improvement as the season went on. If Necas, who had 53 points in 77 games this past season gets the 8 million, Dach doesn't really need to be that much better than he's shown to ask for the same (or at least very similar) demands.

I meant in the sense that it's a good problem to have.

The cap is going up and the Habs don't have any high salary players. I think Habs fans worry about the cap way too much.

Blowing it by paying Necas handsomely can most definitely hinder it. Oilers did the same thing with Nurse and that contract has been crippling for them.

The Oilers and Habs aren't in the same situation.

Not to mention the Oilers, despite overpaying Nurse, are 2 games away from being in the Stanely Cup finals.

If that's crippling, sign me up.

 

[le_sean]

I'd view Newhook is more a solution at C if Dach doesn't pan out than Necas.

Like, I know Necas was drafted as a center, but he is very clearly a winger in the NHL. He just looks like a winger and his strengths and weaknesses suggest wing is the best fit for him. I don't want to see Montreal once again trade for a player to address a need, which need would require the player to change what has made them successful.

I agree he’s a winger. I’d be acquiring him as a winger.

The need is offence. The need is transition. The need is speed. The need is size. He fills every single one of those needs.

 

[sampollock]

Ottawa shut it down hard already but even if it were true, they're not trading him in the division.

AMEN
so this subject can cease now

It's Dreger speculation but LeBrun mentioned it as well.

It makes sense.

He's skilled.
He's available.
He's got size.
He's had some productive playoff runs in him.

Way better fit than Zegrass

lets do it , if they dont want the world

 

[417]

I don't think having 2nd liners make 8 million each means we are golden.

Tyler Seguin (52pts) and Jaime Benn (60pts) make 9.8M & 9.5M respectively somehow the Stars are also 2 games away from playing in the Stanley Cup.

It's great to think that to be a successful team you need to have 23 players who bring great value with their contracts, but it's not realistic.

Some guys are overpaid, some guys are underpaid and some guys make exactly what they should. None of this is really what determines success.

You can be a successful team and have overpaid players, look at the 4 teams remaining, you'll find plenty of them.

 

[The Great Weal]

It's been hindering them because they also have a 12.5 million dollar player and a 8.5 million dollar player as well. We're not talking the same type of numbers as the Leafs and the Oilers.

I respectfully disagree. Their awful cap situation is due to the bad contracts they handed out to secondary players that have regressed.

Dach can be a great player but until he stays healthy and has an unreal season/earns a raise, he won't get one. Slaf took a huge step this year but I'm not ready to open the vault for him yet, either, and I'm sure Hughes and company also aren't until he builds on it.

Sure, but you'd also want more from Necas rather than his one 70 point season.

Nobody wanted to pay Zach Hyman 5.5 million and look at his production. Sometimes guys take steps and become more than what they were with better opportunities.

And other times they regress horribly like Nurse/Campbell/PLD...etc. I'd say this occurs a lot more than players taking the step.

First of all, stop saying $8m. You’re pulling numbers out of your ass.

Lol I can say whatever I want, you can ignore the conversation since it's bothering you so much.

I mean he had 71pts just last year, so from a contractual demand and given his age/pedigree...8M is not an outrageous demand.

If you were Columbus, would you have given Max Domi 8 million longterm since he had a 72 point season on a worse team?

If you identify Necas as a player that can help this team and it takes 8M.yr to sign him...sign me up.

It will totally depend on how much you believe he can help. Will he do more than another second liner that could be signed for 2-3 million cheaper even if they are older?

Maybe, I was just basing it off a player who was in a similar situation, from the same class, same age, had the same exact points.

But as I said, Necas has more of a proven track record, so he probably is looking closer to 8M.

I personally don't think he's got enough of a track record to warrant 8 million.

Again, I wouldn't say no.

I meant in the sense that it's a good problem to have.

It would be a good problem if they become top line players. Having 2 8 million dollar second-liners isn't something that I would consider a good problem.

The cap is going up and the Habs don't have any high salary players. I think Habs fans worry about the cap way too much.

Doesn't mean they should be giving a player more than they are worth and setting a precedent for the other guys who could end up comparable.

The Oilers and Habs aren't in the same situation.

Not to mention the Oilers, despite overpaying Nurse, are 2 games away from being in the Stanely Cup finals.

If that's crippling, sign me up.

Lol come on man, if we had McDavid and Draisaitl we would still be fine if we gave Michael Pezzetta a 14 million dollar contract. Doesn't mean that awful cap management hasn't been hurting them.

 

[417]

If you were Columbus, would you have given Max Domi 8 million longterm since he had a 72 point season on a worse team?

Sorry I don't get the connection here?

It will totally depend on how much you believe he can help. Will he do more than another second liner that could be signed for 2-3 million cheaper even if they are older?

I personally don't think he's got enough of a track record to warrant 8 million.

It would be a good problem if they become top line players. Having 2 8 million dollar second-liners isn't something that I would consider a good problem.

Doesn't mean they should be giving a player more than they are worth and setting a precedent for the other guys who could end up comparable.

It's really not that complex for me...the contract for a guy like Martin Necas is pretty much set, if you want to sign him to an 8 yr deal, it's going to be in the range of what I said. That's the cost.

I don't look at individual player's salary in a vacuum, it's the entire salary picture of a team...as I mentioned, the Dallas Stars are able to be a top team in the NHL despite having 2 terrible salaries value wise because they have other amazing offsetting contracts.

That's just how the salary cap works. So i'm not going to bite my nails over a guy being "overpaid" by 1.5-2M dollars.

Lol come on man, if we had McDavid and Draisaitl we would still be fine if we gave Michael Pezzetta a 14 million dollar contract. Doesn't mean that awful cap management hasn't been hurting them.

Using an extreme example doesn't strengthen your argument. Who would give Michael Pezzetta 14M? How is this remotely comparable to anything I wrote lol

 

[The Great Weal]

Tyler Seguin (52pts) and Jaime Benn (60pts) make 9.8M & 9.5M respectively somehow the Stars are also 2 games away from playing in the Stanley Cup.

Having Wyatt Johnston/Logan Stankoven/Thomas Harley/Jake Oettinger collectively make 6.5 million makes up for it no? Yes if Habs get some star players on ELCs it would help the cap situation.

It's great to think that to be a successful team you need to have 23 players who bring great value with their contracts, but it's not realistic.

I've never claimed that, don't know where you're getting that from.

Some guys are overpaid, some guys are underpaid and some guys make exactly what they should. None of this is really what determines success.

Overpaying too many guys by too much will hinder your chances of success.

You can be a successful team and have overpaid players, look at the 4 teams remaining, you'll find plenty of them.

So why not just give any player whatever they want? Those successful teams have superstars to make up for that which is a major factor. Yes if we had a proven elite top 5 dman in the NHL and a top 10 forward in the league and can afford a Necas as a final piece to the top 6, sure give him the 8 million.

 

[le_sean]

Lol I can say whatever I want, you can ignore the conversation since it's bothering you so much.

How is it bothering me? I’ve been responding and you have no answer other than repeating “$8m, 2nd liner”