HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[DAChampion]

He will be a solid 2nd pairing

I assume that Habs management is hoping for Guhle-Reinbacher as the future 1st pairing. Thus, if Guhle doesn't take a step forward it will be a significant problem for the organization.

 

[Kosseca]

He will be a solid 2nd pairing

Let me put it this way, if he's MTL no1 Dman by default (i.e. MTL does not have a more complete guy) then this is a problem.

In an ideal world, I can see him being the "2nd" guy on the top pairing, or the main on the second with top PK time. So I'm hoping Reinbacher can be that no1 guys, be paired with him.

 

[Runner77]

I assume that Habs management is hoping for Guhle-Reinbacher as the future 1st pairing. Thus, if Guhle doesn't take a step forward it will be a significant problem for the organization.

Well, we do have depth on the left side. Not sure how much of it has first pairing ceiling.

 

[Garry Valk]

Would anyone here go after Kuzmenko, given age and skill leve? Clearly out of favour in Vancouver.

 

[Kosseca]

Well, we do have depth on the left side. Not sure how much of it has first pairing ceiling.

1st pair vs no 1D is a different beast. For me, the biggest issue is that there is no clear cut future no1D. In the absence of that, we are are hoping for stars to align and can't really pencil guys in slots.

If you know, for example, that Reinbacher is a for sure future no1 D with good offensive instincts, then you build from there : he need a LD that can complement him, so either a Guhle or Stuble or Wifi for defensive help. From there the other paring are easier to draw.

But not knowing how can handle the top minutes or can drive the offense means you can't even make a trade as you are still hoping one emerge and you need option in case some fails. So, while we have a glut of LD.... it's kinda hard to trade some away.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Would anyone here go after Kuzmenko, given age and skill leve? Clearly out of favour in Vancouver.

I think Vancouver would rather sell him off in a trade for an upgrade on him.

He'd probably just struggle here, too with meh players.

 

[Runner77]

1st pair vs no 1D is a different beast. For me, the biggest issue is that there is no clear cut future no1D. In the absence of that, we are are hoping for stars to align and can't really pencil guys in slots.

How is a first pairing D different than a 1D?

If you’re alluding to how someone projects as a first pairing D on a non-competitive team vs. a player who would be considered a first pairing D on a contending team, I don’t believe the designation of “first pairing” and “1D” evokes that distinction.

Edit: The way I saw it, a 1D was simply a first pairing D unless one provided additional qualifiers like “on a contending club” or “on this team”. I guess I was ill-informed.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Allen made himself untradable/dumpable with his 7 straight Ls

 

[DAChampion]

How is a first pairing D different than a 1D?

The Markov-Komisarek pairing of yore is a good example of the distinction.

 

[Kosseca]

How is a first pairing D different than a 1D?

If you’re alluding to how someone projects as a first pairing D on a non-competitive team vs. a player who would be considered a first pairing D on a contending team, I don’t believe the designation of “first pairing” and “1D” evokes that distinction.

A 1D, is simply a first pairing D unless one provides additional qualifiers like “on a contending club” or “on this team”.

First Pairing can be the complement to a no1 D. Hedman, Makar or Josi's partner,

 

[Runner77]

Allen made himself untradable/dumpable with his 7 straight Ls

I’ll beg to differ. W-L are a team-derived stat.

There are far better, more individualized metrics and analytical tools that teams will use to determine a player’s viability plus they’ll typically also value past playoff experience, attitude, projected role, injury history and propensity to get injured, and given his age and experience, ability to mentor, amongst other factors.

Allen remains a capable 1B in support of a young, developing no. 1 goalie who can shoulder responsibility provided his playing time is well managed.

That said, he is overpaid and several teams are cap-restricted, so something’s gotta give if he’s going to be moved.

 

[lamp9post]

How is a first pairing D different than a 1D?

If you’re alluding to how someone projects as a first pairing D on a non-competitive team vs. a player who would be considered a first pairing D on a contending team, I don’t believe the designation of “first pairing” and “1D” evokes that distinction.

A 1D, is simply a first pairing D unless one provides additional qualifiers like “on a contending club” or “on this team”.

Have you not encountered this distinction before?

#1D is the team's best defenseman, ideally a top-10 defenseman league-wide.

First pairing D is someone who is capable of playing on the first pairing alongside your #1D against the opposition's best players.

A recent example of this in Montreal would be Josh Gorges playing on the top pairing alongside #1D PK Subban. This is not a great example though, given that Gorges isn't ideally on your first pairing.

Ultimately it's about how players would ideally be slotted on a contending team.

 

[Runner77]

The Markov-Komisarek pairing of yore is a good example of the distinction.

I thought those terms were interchangeable. I see what was meant — Markov is your 1D and Komisarek your first pairing. That means your first pairing is likely to be or risks becoming interchangeable.

In that scenario, a 1D on a non-contending team is not necessarily a 1D on a contending club, no?

 

[The Great Weal]

Fans are elevating him as a no1 dman, but he's not that yet. Can he become one, sure but he wont be a top and complete 1D like Hedman or Josi, or an offensive one like Makar or Hugues. He most likely will be a top tier shutdown guy.

He still need to become stronger (get push alot) and get better balance overall. His play reading is good, which will improve, and with his speed, that will make it a hard guy to go around.

That being said, he wont put crazy numbers, at least for several more seasons. He's mindset is set to D not O and he's not taking any risk. So he either needs to be paired with another very strong Def Dman to be freed up from that responsibility, or he'll need to mature into that role overtime.

To me a #1 dman is a guy like Werenski who’s not top 10 in the league but is a beast. Guhle seems more like a #2 but of course that can change.

 

[Kosseca]

To me a #1 dman is a guy like Werenski who’s not top 10 in the league but is a beast. Guhle seems more like a #2 but of course that can change.

This maybe a me thing, but when I'm thinking no1 D, I'm thinking potential Norris winner. A guy that can put up numbers and hold his own on defense.

Given his development curve, I see Guhle being a good no2 or a top guy on the second pair. If he ever unlock a next level to his offense, then that would change things significantly.

 

[JRichard]

To me a #1 dman is a guy like Werenski who’s not top 10 in the league but is a beast. Guhle seems more like a #2 but of course that can change.

Seems soft to me for that size.
Not on pp.
On league’s 30th pk
I call sophomore jinx and reserve judgement next year.

 

[Scriptor]

I think Vancouver would rather sell him off in a trade for an upgrade on him.

He'd probably just struggle here, too with meh players.

Why would Vancouver want to get rid of this guy?

 

[sampollock]

Where is #19 Larry R clone

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Why would Vancouver want to get rid of this guy?

He doesn't seem to be working out.

He did amazing in his 1st year, but his shooting percentage was ridiculous like 25, or 30%

His shooting percentage dropped and he's a meh player.

 

[Miller Time]

Unless Hughes has a deal in the works that leverages our available cap space, I'd take a flyer on Vrana... Seems like a long shot (huge skill but big maturity issues)

Pick up Vrana off waivers and give him the upcoming 7-game road trip to show he wants an NHL career, if MSL doesn't feel like there's room for emotional maturity growth, waive him again in January.

gotta do something to address the complete funk our forward group is in offensively.

 

[JRichard]

Unless Hughes has a deal in the works that leverages our available cap space, I'd take a flyer on Vrana... Seems like a long shot (huge skill but big maturity issues)

Pick up Vrana off waivers and give him the upcoming 7-game road trip to show he wants an NHL career, if MSL doesn't feel like there's room for emotional maturity growth, waive him again in January.

gotta do something to address the complete funk our forward group is in offensively.

Would be this year’s Gurianov i guess.

 

[ReHabs]

Unless Hughes has a deal in the works that leverages our available cap space, I'd take a flyer on Vrana... Seems like a long shot (huge skill but big maturity issues)

Pick up Vrana off waivers and give him the upcoming 7-game road trip to show he wants an NHL career, if MSL doesn't feel like there's room for emotional maturity growth, waive him again in January.

gotta do something to address the complete funk our forward group is in offensively.

Sounds like a Bergevin scrap-heap move, non?

If Hughes wants to improve the roster (which he has shown zero inclination, thus far) then he should actually improve the roster. Otherwise he should expect the young players to step up and carry the team to the finish line and be done with this season without wasting a second thought.

 

[Miller Time]

Would be this year’s Gurianov i guess.

yup. with probably less likely chance of it working out given how pronounced Vrana's personality seem to be...

 

[JRichard]

yup. with probably less likely chance of it working out given how pronounced Vrana's personality seem to be...

Waste of time. Get Heineman here, see what he has. Give Farrell a few games. Waive Pezzeta.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Unless Hughes has a deal in the works that leverages our available cap space, I'd take a flyer on Vrana... Seems like a long shot (huge skill but big maturity issues)

Pick up Vrana off waivers and give him the upcoming 7-game road trip to show he wants an NHL career, if MSL doesn't feel like there's room for emotional maturity growth, waive him again in January.

gotta do something to address the complete funk our forward group is in offensively.

Wouldn't mind him, but if I'm Hughes I'm not taking him on for free.

Getting some draft capital, or sending Armia their way.