HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[salbutera]

If they trade Knies that would be absolute proof they don't know how to build a Cup winner. Alhough letting Hyman and Kadri go was probably already proof enough.

Leafs are stuck, which is why I asked how much trouble is Shanahan in with ownership? Is it a long playoff run or you’re out situation?

If it is, they have to make moves in the now, and forget “future”

 

[Captain Mountain]

I kept thinking Hanley is a young guy who just needs his break in the NHL. Was truly surprised when I realized he's a journeyman whos 7 years removed from being a Hab.

If you want to really feel old, David Savard is the only skater on Montreal who's older than Hanley.

 

[morhilane]

Funny reading Leafs Twitter and seeing so many of them against giving a first for Savard. They don't understand what their team needs to win playoffs series.

They are happy with winning the regular season in some ways. Somehow.

But the Leafs have no cap space. I have no idea how Klingberg was fitting on the roster at the start of the season.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I believe you just proved the point: over 10-drafts, 100-players drafted 18 have had some level of NHL regular career… 18% that’s atrocious odds.

Give me a bird in the hand all the time vs 18% hope.

Savard's not really a bird in the hand though. He's 33 and a 3rd pair D at this stage in his career, there is extremely limited future value there. The post you responded to was only a selected list of guys that turned into legitimate impact players or at least top 6 forwards/top 4D though. Looking at 2008-2017, the list of regular NHLers is significantly longer (and there's some impact guys in this list too).

Ennis, Markstrom, Voynov, John Moore, Johansson, Palmieri, Sheahan, Pysyk, Murphy, Namestnikov, Noesen, Rakell, Maatta, Pearson, Mantha, Dickinson, Hartman, Fabbri, McCann, Beauvillier, Howden, Frederic, Yamamoto, Chytil, Poehling, Frost, Jokiharju, Tolvanen, etc. That's another 28 players who all became equal or better than Habs-era Savard who's just a 3rd pair D, and I would value control of the age 18-27 seasons for most of these players significantly higher than 1.25 seasons of 33 year old Savard.

The names listed above that demonstrate the probability is likely closer to something like a 35-40% chance you'll produce a regular NHLer in that range, but if we just ignore them and go with the 18% figure, I would still absolutely take "just" an 18% hope of an NHLer over the "bird in the hand" of having Savard for 100 more games.

 

[salbutera]

Savard's not really a bird in the hand though. He's 33 and a 3rd pair D at this stage in his career, there is extremely limited future value there. The post you responded to was only a selected list of guys that turned into legitimate impact players or at least top 6 forwards/top 4D though. Looking at 2008-2017, the list of regular NHLers is significantly longer (and there's some impact guys in this list too).

Ennis, Markstrom, Voynov, John Moore, Johansson, Palmieri, Sheahan, Pysyk, Murphy, Namestnikov, Noesen, Rakell, Maatta, Pearson, Mantha, Dickinson, Hartman, Fabbri, McCann, Beauvillier, Howden, Frederic, Yamamoto, Chytil, Poehling, Frost, Jokiharju, Tolvanen, etc. That's another 28 players who all became equal or better than Habs-era Savard who's just a 3rd pair D, and I would value control of the age 18-27 seasons for most of these players significantly higher than 1.25 seasons of 33 year old Savard.

The names listed above that demonstrate the probability is likely closer to something like a 35-40% chance you'll produce a regular NHLer in that range, but if we just ignore them and go with the 18% figure, I would still absolutely take "just" an 18% hope of an NHLer over the "bird in the hand" of having Savard for 100 more games.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder… TBay gave up a 1st leading Savard to be labelled a “Cup winner”.

What type of Dman do Treliving & Shanahan want? Which yet again brings us back to how much pressure is Shanahan under?

Human beings tend to default to what they know…Shanahan played hockey a certain way & win Cups doing it….. wasn’t Dubas hockey

 

[Benstheman]

Just saw the Tweet that you put on the link my bad !
Then yes NYI would be a great place to trade him

Absolutely no problem. I think Incarcerated Bob is well connected with NYI organization, even though he is always saying Lou is like a tomb.

 

[LaP]

Given that next TDL he'll probably still be in consideration for a late 1st the situations are
1) Have Savard continue to groom the young D + 1st in 2025
2) Trade Savard now for a 1st in 2024

Kind of seems like a no-brainer for keeping him. However the real conundrum facing Hughes is the amount of D that deserve or will be pushing for NHL spots. We are basically sitting at 8D all deserving of NHL ice time plus 3 high end prospects that could make a case for playing in the NHL over the AHL. So it's not just about what Savard brings, but also what's best use of ice time.

I'm leaning towards keeping Savard and looking to move Harris if we need to free up roster space. But obviously if someone's going to really overpay then you don't say no that.

It's not sure you get a 1st next season. He's not the most fit guy in the NHL. He could very well hit a wall next season. If you got the first now i feel like you do it and you use Barron next season.

 

[salbutera]

I think we can add the NYI as potential suitors for Savard.

The just lost Mayfield to LTI and Lou said they are buyers.

https://x.com/incarceratedbob/status/1765052550724649268?s=20

Savard is the ideal Uncle Lou Dman

 

[LaP]

I kept thinking Hanley is a young guy who just needs his break in the NHL. Was truly surprised when I realized he's a journeyman whos 7 years removed from being a Hab.

He's 32 XD

 

[Vachon23]

Absolutely no problem. I think Incarcerated Bob is well connected with NYI organization, even though he is always saying Lou is like a tomb.

I don’t see them giving a top 20 pick that could be a lottery pick for Savard though

 

[red devil]

 

[vokiel]

It's not sure you get a 1st next season. He's not the most fit guy in the NHL. He could very well hit a wall next season. If you got the first now i feel like you do it and you use Barron next season.

Use Barron?? That's an argument to not trade Savard.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I keep reading here that end of 1st round pick are not interesting and every time i'm like whatever. I'm kind of lost here. If end of first round picks are not interesting what's the solution? Waiting 10 years for Savard and Anderson to improve and become elite talents and make us contender? Because you wont get a top pick or top prospect for those guys. That simply will not happen.

People act like if end of 1st round picks never become top 6 forward or top 4 dmen. From 2008 to 2017 (ignoring the last 6 drafts cause players are too young) here's a list of some players drafted in the first round after the 20th position (21 to 30) :

Jordan Eberle
John Carlson
Kyle Palmieri
Kevin Hayes
Evgeni Kuznetson
Charlie Coyle
Brock Nelson
Philip Danault
Mike Matheson
Brady Skjei
Andrei Burakovsky
Shea Theodore
David Pasternak
Adran Kempe
Brock Boeser
Travis Konecny
Tage Thompson
Jake Oettinger

Any of those players in their prime would help us more in 4-5 years than any of our over the hill vets not named Matheson. That's 18 players out of 101 players so close to 20%. I left out a couple of guys who were borderline like Rickard Rackell (inconsistent thru their career). I'm still speechless of the amount of our fans s****** on a 20% chance to get a good player who will play for us for the next 10 to 15 years.

What's the solution? I don't get it. Why would you let Savard walk at the end of next season without getting anything? What does it accomplish? If a 1st is offered for Savard KH should move 100%. If not then wait next year. If a 1st is offered for Anderson KH should move 100%. If not wait. It's like our fans have PTSD from 30 years of bad drafting. It's a new management the slate should be clean.

There's a bit of a fad to discount any pick that isn't like a Top 10 or 15 pick. It started with late-round picks are worthless. Then it was mid-round picks are worthless. Now it has become late 1sts and 2nd round picks are worthless. It's draft pick inflation or something.

To me it's nuts. Draft picks are valuable. They don't all pan out, but the ones that do will shape the future of the franchise.

 

[The Great Weal]

This is the most boring deadline week in a while

 

[Sorinth]

It's not sure you get a 1st next season. He's not the most fit guy in the NHL. He could very well hit a wall next season. If you got the first now i feel like you do it and you use Barron next season.

He was worth a 1st 3 years ago, if he's still worth a 1st now then chances are he's going to be still worth a 1st a year from now. If anything it's more likely that we would want to keep him for our own playoff push next year then his value declines all that much.

Not too mention his value would also still be a 1st in the summer, since he's had a very positive impact on Xhekaj, why not let Xhekaj finish strong by not pulling the rug out from under him and then in the summer decide whether to take the 1st or keep him around longer?

 

[Benstheman]

Savard is the ideal Uncle Lou Dman

Exactly my thought.

 

[Kosseca]

This is the most boring deadline week in a while

yeah. I would have expected a few more trade by now

 

[sampollock]

Leafs are hoping to get a young, cheap top pairing dman for a bunch of 3rds.

sure ok bubbles (brad t)
hope they get screwed

 

[HuGort]

Don't expect a lot from the Habs guys.. I know I'll say this and half the board will peddle the belief that Hughes got a good offer on Armia and just chose not to do it

I'd rather keep Armia. We need players.

 

[sheed36]

Funny reading Leafs Twitter and seeing so many of them against giving a first for Savard. They don't understand what their team needs to win playoffs series.

If the Leafs won't trade their 2024 1st or any of their top or better prospects I don't see anything they could offer to even tempt Hughes to trade Savard to them since Hughes doesn't need to move him unless his price is met and I don't see anything left on the table from the Leafs side meeting that price really.

Maybe something like Savard + Avs 2024 2nd for the Leafs 2024 1st might be an option maybe but I don't think the Leafs would do that since that Avs 2nd looks like it'll be quite late.

TBH though I really don't want to move Savard to the Leafs to help them anyway. I'd much rather send him to a team that would help knock the Leafs off early instead.

 

[LaP]

He was worth a 1st 3 years ago, if he's still worth a 1st now then chances are he's going to be still worth a 1st a year from now. If anything it's more likely that we would want to keep him for our own playoff push next year then his value declines all that much.

Not too mention his value would also still be a 1st in the summer, since he's had a very positive impact on Xhekaj, why not let Xhekaj finish strong by not pulling the rug out from under him and then in the summer decide whether to take the 1st or keep him around longer?

He might still be worth a 1st because he has not hit the mid 30ies wall yet but make no mistake that wall is coming and it will likely be coming fast. Been there done that. Kessel went from being a 52 points player to being unable to find a team in the span of 1 season at 34 years old.

I wont be mad if KH want to risk it after all we don't know what the offers are but i would not risk it personally if a 1st is offered.

 

[morhilane]

Is Guentzel healthy? He was injured a few weeks ago and put on LTIR.

 

[Runner77]

The only guarantee is that all these yappers have a form of Dregeritis.

 

[AntiCHrice]

Savard is the ideal Uncle Lou Dman

Savard would be so miserable... first he'd have to leave the town he wants to play in then shave that luxurious beard

 

[red devil]

Is Guentzel healthy? He was injured a few weeks ago and put on LTIR.

Last report I've seen he is suppose to back a few days after the trade deadline. He was on the ice skating today