HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

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Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
11,159
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You can't just dismiss reports and the majority's opinion just because it doesn't fit your narrative. It's just arguing in bad faith.

Aaron Ward is a former NHL defenseman, he knows a little bit what he's talking about.
Kelly is saying that anybody who can lace his skates would be better that Ceci. Strong endorsement right there. He's not an insider BTW.
But if they work for TFP, they must be bad. Those guys can't even predict the future. They're a joke.

Ceci's name come up because he's not close to being worth what he's making and he's a weak link in EDM's D.
Nobody is gonna give something to have him at that salary. He'd be already traded if that were the case.

You can't say one player is just slightly better that the other so the difference must be...let's say a 2nd...and maybe a 4th?
Doesn't work that way.

I don't think the Habs are gonna trade Savard for less than a 1st. Getting just a late 2nd instead and taking on Ceci on top would just be a disaster.

The only sentence that you wrote that is correct is the final sentence.

You keep making circular logic assertions and stating a fallacy as your starting point. You are mistaking a misinterpretation/comprehension issue for majority opinion when in fact you have no idea what the actual majority opinion is. I know plenty of ex NHLers and enough current ones to know that many of them are surprisingly clueless about the game from a team building and player evaluation stand point. I would compare it to soldiers who know how to use a specific skill set but are otherwise incapable of seeing the larger picture. Hockey players are extremely dumb as a whole which is the result of being raised by dumb humans and then surrounded by their dumb offspring who then proceed to create a bubble around them.

Edmonton factually believes that Ceci is more effective than Kulak and Desharnais and there is nothing that Ward or Kelly can say to refute that. This is much more important evidence than an outsider fron TFP with average intellect at best sharing his uninformed opinion.

It has been demonstrated endlessly that Ceci is a guy who would need to be moved due to cap space, this is a unarguable fact. It is your opinion that they want to move him more than Desharnais or Kulak but there is absolutely no evidence of that. One year at 3.25M is hardly outrageous for RD who has averaged over 20 minutes per game for the majority of his career and has continued to be used at this rate for the entire tenure of his term with his current team.

You are putting way too much leverage in to your opinion and other outsiders opinions and are doing the at the expense of objectivity. You are basically scouring FOX News for a balanced opinion and then citing your findings as majority consensus

There is no argument from myself that would attempt to refute that Savard is better than Kulak nor is there an argument that I would want Ceci on a playoff team. You are getting lost in the weeds as I am only stating that there are weaker links on their blueline and they would rather exchange them for Savard if the cap allowed it.....it is irrelevant to the conversation if an ex player does not think Ceci is good because that player is not trading him. The undeniable fact is that Edmonton clearly do not think that Ceci is the player on their blueline that must go before all others.

Fact: Ceci's contract will line up better on a balance sheet with any proposed upgrade at RD

Opinion: Ceci is their worst defender and they want to move on from him more so than Desharnais

You are entitled to your opinion but it does not explain why Ceci is more trusted than Desharnais by the Edmonton coaching staff. The correct approach is to acknowledge that Ceci would need to leave due to his cap hit and to surmise that they would rather move Desharnais. Anything else is just moving away from a likely reality to a less likely reality that requires additional variables that can be pulled out of one's rear such as them playing Ceci 20 minutes a game for 3 years in order to inflate his trade value at this particular deadline lol.
 

TheBuriedHab

Registered User
Jan 27, 2010
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Guys we aren't moving Matheson. He plays 27 minutes a night for us and is entering the prime years of defenseman. He will sign another contract here most likely.

This is like when people wanted to trade Petry because we had Josh Brook in the AHL lmfao.

If Lane Hutson proves he can play 25 minutes a night in the NHL, then sure we can start that discussion. Until then Matheson remains one of our most important players.
 

Scotianhab

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
5,999
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Nova Scotia
His value is likely at an all time high since defensemen that rely heavily on their skating rarely age well once they get into their 30s.

And I think we could see Hutson start to fill the role of a puck moving defenseman for us as early as next season.

Can we let our prospects marinate in the AHL. Especially Hutson who will still need to get quite a bit stronger and get used to the more gruelling season. Keep Matheson at least until the deadline next year and let Hutson develop.
 

le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
42,073
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You are entitled to your opinion but it does not explain why Ceci is more trusted than Desharnais by the Edmonton coaching staff.
This is the most flawed logic of any argument on the subject. 100% trusting a coaching staff. Is Josh Anderson better than Joel Armia? Is Jordan Harris better than Xhekaj? Your one and only argument to Ceci being good is that he gets more icetime than Desharnais who was a career AHLer until the age of 27.

You’ve been presented actual stats as well as analysis by hockey professionals as to why Ceci isn’t good. Maybe just let this one go. You’re really fighting tooth and nail for no particular reason with no real argument.
 
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Simarino

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Oct 21, 2009
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Im watching Buffalo and they are very good trade partners!! They have alot of players that could be a good fit on the second line wih Dach. Peterka, Mittlestadt, Quinn or Thompson/Tuch on the older side of what we’re looking for.
 
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SwiftyHab

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Apr 18, 2004
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Guys we aren't moving Matheson. He plays 27 minutes a night for us and is entering the prime years of defenseman. He will sign another contract here most likely.

If Lane Hutson proves he can play 25 minutes a night in the NHL, then sure we can start that discussion. Until then Matheson remains one of our most important players.
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
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This is the most flawed logic of any argument on the subject. 100% trusting a coaching staff. Is Josh Anderson better than Joel Armia? Is Jordan Harris better than Xhekaj? Your one and only argument to Ceci being good is that he gets more icetime than Desharnais who was a career AHLer until the age of 27.

You’ve been presented actual stats as well as analysis by hockey professionals as to why Ceci isn’t good. Maybe just let this one go. You’re really fighting tooth and nail for no particular reason with no real argument.

Jesus....speaking of flawed arguments lol

Anderson and Armia have bounced back and forth and MSL tends to play the one who is playing better more minutes. Anderson has been better than Armia for almost his entire tenure here and has averaged more minutes. Only recently has Armia passed him due to the fact that Armia has been much better than Anderson lately.....so thank you for clearly illustrating my point.

Jordan Harris has rightfully played more minutes than Xhekaj because he has been better than Xhekaj but I understand the shiny object allure and how that may have led you down the wrong path.

And.....once again you have failed miserably to understand my point as the argument isn't about Ceci being good but only about being better than Desharnais. It doesn't matter what excusues that you use to justify Desharnais' uselessness, causation is irrelevant. If you are arguing that the last 3 coaches for the Oilers all played Ceci ahead of Desharnais because Desharnais is better then it is you who needs to close this episode of another losing debate and call it a day my friend. Desharnais is extremely bad and should still be in the AHL.

You presenting me with garbage stats from Jfresh that you do not understand and quoting TFP as "hockey professionals" lol.

It is clear, unfortunately that you are unable to debate at a high enough level for us to reach any common ground. I will continue to associate with actual NHLers while you scour Jfresh and TFP for alternative facts...on my IL
 
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Estimated_Prophet

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Mar 28, 2003
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What have I heard about Hughes saying to the other GMs that "we are fine finishing the season with three goalies". What's the strategy here?

Likely just a ploy to force someone to give up anything at all for Allen. Just letting GM's know that he does not plan to waive him.
 
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le_sean

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Oct 21, 2006
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Jesus....speaking of flawed arguments lol

Anderson and Armia have bounced back and forth and MSL tends to play the one who is playing better more minutes. Anderson has been better than Armia for almost his entire tenure here and has averaged more minutes. Only recently has Armia passed him due to the fact that Armia has been much better than Anderson lately.....so thank you for clearly illustrating my point.

Jordan Harris has rightfully played more minutes than Xhekaj because he has been better than Xhekaj but I understand the shiny object allure and how that may have led you down the wrong path.

And.....once again you have failed miserably to understand my point as the argument isn't about Ceci being good but only about being better than Desharnais. It doesn't matter what excusues that you use to justify Desharnais' uselessness, causation is irrelevant. If you are arguing that the last 3 coaches for the Oilers all played Ceci ahead of Desharnais because Desharnais is better then it is you who needs to close this episode of another losing debate and call it a day my friend. Desharnais is extremely bad and should still be in the AHL.

You presenting me with garbage stats from Jfresh that you do not understand and quoting TFP as "hockey professionals" lol.

It is clear, unfortunately that you are unable to debate at a high enough level for us to reach any common ground. I will continue to associate with actual NHLers while you scour Jfresh and TFP for alternative facts...on my IL
Just happy that your 10,000th post is you being soft and putting someone on ignore because you can’t handle a disagreement. But I guess that’s what makes you a prophet - ignoring actual evidence and saying “just trust me bro”
 

Boss Man Hughes

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Mar 15, 2022
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Likely just a ploy to force someone to give up anything at all for Allen. Just letting GM's know that he does not plan to waive him.
No it is the truth. teams that are interested know what Hughes wants for Allen. If they don't ante up then he will be kept and traded in the off season when no retention will be necessary.
 

MarkovsKnee

Global Moderator
Nov 21, 2007
55,534
70,693
Toronto
Speaking of Hutson, do we have an ETA on him? Thought someone said in March?

It depends on how BU does in the playoffs. If they get all the way to the Frozen Four tournament he's likely not playing NHL games this year. That tournament is April 11-13. Montreal ends the season April 15 & 16 with a home & home series against Detroit. Maybe.....

The final league games are this Saturday. Then Hockey East Championship playoffs start March 13th with a one game play-in for bottom seeds. BU is automatically into QF, which is the weekend of March 15, following weekend is SF, etc..

Then there's the regionals for selection into Frozen Four. That's March 28-31.

It's doubtful we see him in March at all.
 

CHarlie

They feed me CHicken
Feb 3, 2012
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I get anxious watching him fumble the puck at the blue line. How can he be so exciting on one shift and so much like waiver fodder on the next?
Im just craving some creativity from this team and he has that......I'm so used to a dump and chase team for the last 20 years its nice to see someone carry the play for once......thats all.
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
11,159
12,395
No it is the truth. teams that are interested know what Hughes wants for Allen. If they don't ante up then he will be kept and traded in the off season when no retention will be necessary.

You understand that a ploy can be truthful right.....him announcing the truth is the ploy as he is leaving out a truth which is preference.. They may very well be fine with keeping him until the summer but they undoubtedly would rather trade him now. Hughes didn't say that keeping him was his preference as we know it is not nor is it Allen's preference who would much rather join a playoff team right now.

So....when someone announces something like this there is a reason that only half of the truth was told....alas a ploy!
 
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Vachon23

Registered User
Oct 14, 2015
19,253
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Victoriaville
Is Josh Anderson better than Joel Armia? Is Jordan Harris better than Xhekaj
I mean yes for both

Guys we aren't moving Matheson. He plays 27 minutes a night for us and is entering the prime years of defenseman. He will sign another contract here most likely.

This is like when people wanted to trade Petry because we had Josh Brook in the AHL lmfao.

If Lane Hutson proves he can play 25 minutes a night in the NHL, then sure we can start that discussion. Until then Matheson remains one of our most important players.
I don’t think Hutson will ever play that much minutes on a good team. Guhle is gonna be the one who plays those minutes
 

McGees

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
13,788
27,394
Guys we aren't moving Matheson. He plays 27 minutes a night for us and is entering the prime years of defenseman. He will sign another contract here most likely.

This is like when people wanted to trade Petry because we had Josh Brook in the AHL lmfao.

If Lane Hutson proves he can play 25 minutes a night in the NHL, then sure we can start that discussion. Until then Matheson remains one of our most important players.
I agree we won't trade him (even tho he is a disaster half the time) but he is 30 - so he is not entering his prime.

I am hoping that Hutson can be the next Quinn Hughes and if so, this team will take a big step forward.
Even if he could be the long lost 2nd cousin twice removed, Lester Hughes, he'd still help us.
 

Deus ex machina

Registered User
Sep 12, 2023
658
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The only sentence that you wrote that is correct is the final sentence.

You keep making circular logic assertions and stating a fallacy as your starting point. You are mistaking a misinterpretation/comprehension issue for majority opinion when in fact you have no idea what the actual majority opinion is. I know plenty of ex NHLers and enough current ones to know that many of them are surprisingly clueless about the game from a team building and player evaluation stand point. I would compare it to soldiers who know how to use a specific skill set but are otherwise incapable of seeing the larger picture. Hockey players are extremely dumb as a whole which is the result of being raised by dumb humans and then surrounded by their dumb offspring who then proceed to create a bubble around them.

Edmonton factually believes that Ceci is more effective than Kulak and Desharnais and there is nothing that Ward or Kelly can say to refute that. This is much more important evidence than an outsider fron TFP with average intellect at best sharing his uninformed opinion.

It has been demonstrated endlessly that Ceci is a guy who would need to be moved due to cap space, this is a unarguable fact. It is your opinion that they want to move him more than Desharnais or Kulak but there is absolutely no evidence of that. One year at 3.25M is hardly outrageous for RD who has averaged over 20 minutes per game for the majority of his career and has continued to be used at this rate for the entire tenure of his term with his current team.

You are putting way too much leverage in to your opinion and other outsiders opinions and are doing the at the expense of objectivity. You are basically scouring FOX News for a balanced opinion and then citing your findings as majority consensus

There is no argument from myself that would attempt to refute that Savard is better than Kulak nor is there an argument that I would want Ceci on a playoff team. You are getting lost in the weeds as I am only stating that there are weaker links on their blueline and they would rather exchange them for Savard if the cap allowed it.....it is irrelevant to the conversation if an ex player does not think Ceci is good because that player is not trading him. The undeniable fact is that Edmonton clearly do not think that Ceci is the player on their blueline that must go before all others.

Fact: Ceci's contract will line up better on a balance sheet with any proposed upgrade at RD

Opinion: Ceci is their worst defender and they want to move on from him more so than Desharnais

You are entitled to your opinion but it does not explain why Ceci is more trusted than Desharnais by the Edmonton coaching staff. The correct approach is to acknowledge that Ceci would need to leave due to his cap hit and to surmise that they would rather move Desharnais. Anything else is just moving away from a likely reality to a less likely reality that requires additional variables that can be pulled out of one's rear such as them playing Ceci 20 minutes a game for 3 years in order to inflate his trade value at this particular deadline lol.
If you think my last sentence is correct, i'm not sure what we're arguing about anymore.
Anyway...

If you're just gonna try to discredit everybody who doesn't share your opinion by baselessly accusing them of being dumb, Fox News or something, then we're not going to get anywhere here.

Let's just wait and see what happens.
 
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loudi94

Master of my Domain
Jul 8, 2003
8,525
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Watching the Penguins fall apart, let’s say that they finally decide to rebuild and were amenable to moving Crosby at the draft, what do you offer? Factor in a three year extension.
 
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