HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[sampollock]

I’d like to see Hughes land another 1st rounder just to be able to package it with the Peg pick either to move up or land an NHL-ready young upside player whose team has soured on.

yes that would be perfect

 

[LaP]

Yes, it was ultimately the GM’s decision.

But we don’t really know how good pro scouting might have been in the early MB years.

Heck, Martin Lapointe was inherited and promoted by HuGo — and like Letowski, no one really knows what he contributes other than being the lucky SOB who became Gorton’s buddy from their Booins days.

When it comes to scouting underlings, no one really knows who does what nor how they are evaluated.

True. But i feel even a bad pro scout would have not recommended the player after watching him for 3 to 5 games max. I was speechless at how King was done when he got here. The guy could barely skate. He was never fast but it was like watching molasse. On top of that he did not give a flying **** anymore. He was literally the worse player i've seen wear this jeysey in a top 9 role during the playoffs since i watch. I could be mistaken but i really feel like nobody pro scouted him because it was a last minute move and they went with the reputation only.

 

[Runner77]

True. But i feel even a bad pro scout would have not recommended the player after watching him for 3 to 5 games max. I was speechless at how King was done when he got here. The guy could barely skate. He was never fast but it was like watching molasse. On top of that he did not give a flying **** anymore. He was literally the worse player i've seen wear this jeysey in a top 9 role during the playoffs since i watch. I could be mistaken but i really feel like nobody pro scouted him because it was a last minute move and they went with the reputation only.

Seeing the many vets MB extended near the end of his tenure, would put the burden mostly on MB for having a liking for these types of near end of the rope vets.

Also, it could have been several pro scouts involved. I have trouble believing they could have all been so bad. If only the Habs had an analytics dept back then to supplement their pro scouting reports.

Oh, wait …

 

[CaptainKirk]

i think we could have held out and received more, SM is a hell of a player and a rare commodity for those looking for a cup run

Monahan also comes with some risk with the two hip surgeries. Our players also have a habit of injuring themselves. Had Hughes held onto him for an extra couple weeks and re-injured himself, we’d all be bitching that he waited too long and we ended up with nothing. A 1st in the hand is better than a 1st and 3rd in the bush.

 

[morhilane]

Yes, it was ultimately the GM’s decision.

But we don’t really know how good pro scouting might have been in the early MB years.

Heck, Martin Lapointe was inherited and promoted by HuGo — and like Letowski, no one really knows what he contributes other than being the lucky SOB who became Gorton’s buddy from their Booins days.

When it comes to scouting underlings, no one really knows who does what nor how they are evaluated.

Lapointe replaced Churla as director of amateur scouting when Churla left in Nov 2020 actually, but I don't think the Habs ever made it official, it was just mentioned around the 2021 draft that he was handling it now.

Hughes actually gave him an assistant.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Nothing decent? Obviously if you watch the last 5 years no not yet. I mean those guys are 22 only. 2nd round picks usually take a while to develop. We don't know how good or not Struble will be when he'll be 25. We also don't know what we have in Beck or Hutson. Kapanen also has good stats in Europe.

But saying we did not pick anything good in the 2nd round is simply not being honest. If we exclude the last 5 years cause the guys are still too young to properly evaluate them and we take a good enough sample sized (10 years) here's the guys we got in the 2nd round from 2009 to 2018 (10 2nd picks total).

Lehkonen
Romanov

There's also Ylonen who is still kind of a question mark but i counted him out cause for now he's just a 4th line player. In those 10 years we had 10 2nd round picks. So 2 good players out of 10 picks is 20% chances to have a good 2nd line or 2nd pairing guy. Nothing even decent is not a good description of that 20%. If we go back further that's even less of a good description cause we got Subban in the 2nd round in 2007.

If you can get a 20% chance to turn Kova into Lehkonen or Romanov you jump on it and you ask no question.

Convenient. Going for the 20% and ignoring the 80%.
Especially for a team that would compete now!! They don't care if a Lehkonen or a Romanov slip from them 6 years from now. Not to mention there are a significant difference between a late 2nd to a early 2nd at least in term of value.

Anyway my point was not to say we should not trade our player for a 2nd but how people have that tendency to believe a 2nd in return is pipe dream or phenomenal value.

For instance we traded Lehkonen for Barron and a 2nd round pick. Both have not shown anything special yet for us while Lehkonen has brought a Stanley Cup to the Avalanche and very good hockey since the trade.

 

[Runner77]

Monahan also comes with some risk with the two hip surgeries. Our players also have a habit of injuring themselves. Had Hughes held onto him for an extra couple weeks and re-injured himself, we’d all be bitching that he waited too long and we ended up with nothing. A 1st in the hand is better than a 1st and 3rd in the bush.

It was also the plan last season to deal Monahan at the deadline and we all know how that turned out. Hughes got the first rounder he was looking for, why play with fire.

 

[LaP]

Convenient. Going for the 20% and ignoring the 80%.
Especially for a team that would compete now!! Not to mention there are a significant difference between a late 2nd to a early 2nd at least in term of value.

So you expect a 2nd round pick to return a good player like 100% of the time. And you associate 20% with nothing. Strange way to look at things if you ask me. If i have a 20% chance to win 2000$ with 200$ i'll take it personally. Kova is a nothing burger player. There's a bunch of kova on the UFA market every years. His main quality is his contract but that's going to be over at the end of the next season. If i have a 20% chance to turn him into Romanov or Lehkonen i'm taking it and i would not want our GM to not take it.

 

[26Mats]

I’d like to see Hughes land another 1st rounder just to be able to package it with the Peg pick either to move up or land an NHL-ready young upside player whose team has soured on.

How's he going to get that other 1st?

 

[JeffreyLFC]

So you expect a 2nd round pick to return a good player like 100% of the time. And you associate 20% with nothing. Strange way to look at things if you ask me. If i have a 20% chance to win 2000$ with 200$ i'll take it personally. Kova is a nothing burger player. There's a bunch of kova on the UFA market every years. His main quality is his contract but that's going to be over at the end of the next season. If i have a 20% chance to turn him into Romanov or Lehkonen i'm taking it and i would not want our GM to not take it.

Yes the famous UFA argument.
Guess what we got Monahan through UFA and got a 1st for him.
We got Kovalchuk mid year through free agency and got a 2nd for him.
Picking up good UFA is a very good part of being succesful but not always as easy.

Kovacevic is a dime dozen player agreed but for a contender he does not care about next season UFA. He cares about winning NOW!!

I repeat, I never said or claimed we should not trade Kovacevic for a 2nd nor did I mentionned that 2nd round pick does not have some value but I am always so confused how people do not see how important the NOW is for a cup contender, especially when playoff hockey is so intense and squad depth is so important.

What I find weird is how people cream their pants every year for more draft picks while historically most of then miss or are not even signed. More darts, fun for the draft fanatics (which I am btw) but for a cup contender they have every rights to look for player to help them now!

If I am a cup contender with a team full of star but lacking depth on defense or on 4th line. I would 100% look at players like Savard, Kovacevic or Jake Evans type even for 2nd round picks.

 

[LaP]

Yes the famous UFA argument.
Guess what we got Monahan through UFA and got a 1st for him.
We got Kovalchuk mid year through free agency and got a 2nd for him.
Picking up good UFA is a very good part of being succesful but not always as easy.

Kovacevic is a dime dozen player agreed but for a contender he does not care about next season UFA. He cares about winning NOW!!

I repeat, I never said or claimed we should not trade Kovacevic for a 2nd nor did I mentionned that 2nd round pick does not have some value but I am always so confused how people do not see how important the NOW is for a cup contender, especially when playoff hockey is so intense and squad depth is so important.

What I find weird is how people cream their pants every year for more draft picks while historically most of then miss or are not even signed. More darts, fun for the draft fanatics (which I am btw) but for a cup contender they have every rights to look for player to help them now!

If I am a cup contender with a team full of star but lacking depth on defense or on 4th line. I would 100% look at players like Savard, Kovacevic or Jake Evans type even for 2nd round picks.

Forget the UFA. We have plenty enough kids to cover depth. So if we can get a 2nd round pick for a depth player over Suzuki age no reason to not do it.

 

[Habs Icing]

hope Kent holds his cards close to his chest because I think we undersold SM by a mile. Stop doing the Bergy panic trades and wait it out, teams will end up overpaying close to the deadline

If one considers only how he performed for us this year, Monahan was undersold. I agree with you. BUT! Do you remember how many posters were begging HuGo to trade him before he got hurt again? If the posters were worried about that, you can bet your little (or big) bottom that GMs were also worried.

 

[Runner77]

We know that EDM’s first was in play for Tanev.



Who else for?

 

[BLONG7]

Convenient. Going for the 20% and ignoring the 80%.
Especially for a team that would compete now!! They don't care if a Lehkonen or a Romanov slip from them 6 years from now. Not to mention there are a significant difference between a late 2nd to a early 2nd at least in term of value.

Anyway my point was not to say we should not trade our player for a 2nd but how people have that tendency to believe a 2nd in return is pipe dream or phenomenal value.

For instance we traded Lehkonen for Barron and a 2nd round pick. Both have not shown anything special yet for us while Lehkonen has brought a Stanley Cup to the Avalanche and very good hockey since the trade.

Lekky was a role player with the Avs, and still is........................Rantanen, Mackinnon and Makar brought the Cup back for the Avs..........
Lekky was a role player with us, who struggled to score in a soccer net for almost two years.....Barron is 6 years younger, and is a PMD who is still developing. He has value, and does not make much money. Lekky is making 4-5 M bucks, and is still a role player, but now a role player who makes too much money.
Good role player who benefitted from playing with some big guns..............

 

[Habby4Life]

What is the worth of a 2nd round pick?
Honestly nothing is kind. Look at the habs 2nd round pick of the past decade? Nothing even decent and don't talk to me about Hutson (he is still just a prospect)

Who cares about past draft history, this is a new regime.

Draft better, 2nd round pick has value, Romanov was a 2nd round pick they turned in Dach.

Kova is a bit piece, if he gets a 2nd, the GM should be tested. Worth a 4th/5th/6th that it.

Hab fans overrate guys, to be honest Kova is barley an NHLer.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

We know that EDM’s first was in play for Tanev.



Who else for?

What defenseman is available that would be worth a 1st and a roster player (or is the roster player to be a cap dump?)

 

[Paddy17]

Yeah, he lost value quickly. He has been good these last few years for us, and even did altight in some games at the start pf the season , but his last 3-4 starts have not looked good. Hughes was show casing him amd he played his worst games in recent memory.

Let this be a cautionary tale for how Savard's play and value can plummet next year. Allen and Anderson really tanked their value this year.

If you get a good offer for Savard (1st minimum), you trade him. I'm sure your team will be disappointed, but the season's almost over. They'll get over it.

 

[le_sean]

What defenseman is available that would be worth a 1st and a roster player (or is the roster player to be a cap dump?)

Hanifin is worth that. Though apparently he only wants to go to the US.

Otherwise, I could see Ken Holland being stupid and desperate enough to offer a 1st for Sean Walker. Maybe a bigger deal for Walker and Laughton.

 

[Habby4Life]

So you expect a 2nd round pick to return a good player like 100% of the time. And you associate 20% with nothing. Strange way to look at things if you ask me. If i have a 20% chance to win 2000$ with 200$ i'll take it personally. Kova is a nothing burger player. There's a bunch of kova on the UFA market every years. His main quality is his contract but that's going to be over at the end of the next season. If i have a 20% chance to turn him into Romanov or Lehkonen i'm taking it and i would not want our GM to not take it.

1000%

Kova is a bit piece. Kova might return a 2nd if Mad Mike was still a GM but there are no fools who would offer that. If they did, they should be canned.

2nd have value and can be used in package.

They used a late first and a 2nd and got Newhook. Now, I'm not sold on Newhook just yet but this idea 2nd round picks don't have value is non-sense.

Romo was a 2nd and they used it to get the 13th overall and eventually Dach.

Let this be a cautionary tale for how Savard's play and value can plummet next year. Allen and Anderson really tanked their value this year.

If you get a good offer for Savard (1st minimum), you trade him. I'm sure your team will be disappointed, but the season's almost over. They'll get over it.

Send him to the airport if offered a second. Totally replaceable. Its David Savard, not Serge, lol.

 

[tazsub3]

Nucks fans are not happy with Lindholm.

Monahan was always the better c available , I could not understand how anyone that watched both players this year say otherwise . But hey let’s hope more past glory trades maybe someone will take Gallagher or Anderson

 

[tazsub3]

It was also the plan last season to deal Monahan at the deadline and we all know how that turned out. Hughes got the first rounder he was looking for, why play with fire.

Because sone hf poster thinks he knows best lol
Some of those posts are painful to read especially after years of mb , dum dum Therrien etc etc .
And now the crticism oh he panicked and got a first only , oh msl is so overrated . I think we should force watch a lot of the younger fans the houle and mb Era on a loop as torture !

 

[Habs]

If one considers only how he performed for us this year, Monahan was undersold. I agree with you. BUT! Do you remember how many posters were begging HuGo to trade him before he got hurt again? If the posters were worried about that, you can bet your little (or big) bottom that GMs were also worried.

He made it this far, I would have bet on SM being healthy till the TDL. If he did get hurt, he's a great player to keep around for the kid, a win/win. Savard can GTFO, I'd love SM here at any point, really liked his game

 

[HuGort]

Let this be a cautionary tale for how Savard's play and value can plummet next year. Allen and Anderson really tanked their value this year.

If you get a good offer for Savard (1st minimum), you trade him. I'm sure your team will be disappointed, but the season's almost over. They'll get over it.

Habs could retain on Savard. Give another club a mid round pick to retain also. Savard be at league minimum next 2 years. He has high trade value then.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

I think we will make at least 2 trades and pick-up one from waivers.

A D will be traded as they prepare for Hutson and others.

Savard will only be traded if we get a 1st with perhaps a prospect and cap dump without more than another year left.

If not traded, Kovacevic or Harris will become depth additions for another team and we will get draft picks or maybe a prospect.

A forward between Pearson, Armia, Pezz or another redundant plug will be traded. Whomever brings the best return.

Bonus if we make a 3rd trade to ship out Allen or Primeau.

 

[Scotianhab]

I could see Evans being traded. He’s great on the PK and doesn’t make too much money.