HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[Habs]

hope Kent holds his cards close to his chest because I think we undersold SM by a mile. Stop doing the Bergy panic trades and wait it out, teams will end up overpaying close to the deadline

 

[Andy]

Im not sure what the difference between getting Allen now and in the summer. Like what actually changes

 

[LaP]

LeBrun on BPM now, continuing to say how Hughes is getting calls on Savard but is not motivated to move him. Says the team is still sensing the impact of losing a valued vet like Monahan and Hughes feels it would be the same if Savard were traded.

Hughes indicating that he would only be discussing very serious offers.

On Allen, LeBrun says there are more teams who have said that they’d trade for Allen in the summer than there are who would want him prior to the deadline. However, doesn’t mean Allen won’t be moved now.

LeBrun says that the Devils made another pitch for Markstrom a few days ago where they were no longer insisting for the Flames to retain on him.

Adds that there are more forwards available than there are interested buyers so teams looking for forwards are likely to wait for prices to come down.

Barring an overpay KH will wait the deadline 2025 to trade Savard. I don't see him extending Savard or letting him go without getting anything in return. At this point (deadline 2025) Barron will have nothing to learn from the AHL and Mailloux will be getting close to this status too. We will be at a point where we will have to evaluate Barron more and likely give a few games to Mailloux so Keeping Savard for the remainder of the 2024-2025 season just to let him go for nothing would be dumb. if KH extend a 35 years old Savard or let him walk for nothing it's going to be his first big mistake imo. If Savard play next year as well as this year we'll get something for him.

Im not sure what the difference between getting Allen now and in the summer. Like what actually changes

He'll be traded this summer or they'll buy him out. They probably don't want to be all the pressure on Montembeault and Primeau yet and wait next year. Allen is also good for the tank let's be real we lose yesterday with Allen in net.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Im not sure what the difference between getting Allen now and in the summer. Like what actually changes

Cap goes up?

 

[SwiftyHab]

LeBrun on BPM now, continuing to say how Hughes is getting calls on Savard but is not motivated to move him. Says the team is still sensing the impact of losing a valued vet like Monahan and Hughes feels it would be the same if Savard were traded.

Hughes indicating that he would only be discussing very serious offers.

On Allen, LeBrun says there are more teams who have said that they’d trade for Allen in the summer than there are who would want him prior to the deadline. However, doesn’t mean Allen won’t be moved now.

LeBrun says that the Devils made another pitch for Markstrom a few days ago where they were no longer insisting for the Flames to retain on him.

Adds that there are more forwards available than there are interested buyers so teams looking for forwards are likely to wait for prices to come down.

Such a weird situation cause the market Price for Savard is a lot less than the value were placing on him. I dont see a team with a responsible GM paying our price particualrly when there are other similar RHD options available for a much lesser asking price.

 

[LaP]

hope Kent holds his cards close to his chest because I think we undersold SM by a mile. Stop doing the Bergy panic trades and wait it out, teams will end up overpaying close to the deadline

It was not a panic trade. KH was simply not fine waiting and risking having nothing for Monahan. It's like playiong the casino. If you enter the casino with 50$ and you have 5000$ in chips then you can either cash-in now or lose everything later. Having two first round picks for future consideration (what we paid for SM) is extremely good value. Waiting the deadline for him to injure himself like last year just to get a b prospect added to the deal would have been stupid imo. Acquiring Martinsen, Ott and King at the deadline IS a panic trade.

 

[salbutera]

It was not a panic trade. KH was simply not fine waiting and risking having nothing for Monahan. It's like playiong the casino. If you enter the casino with 50$ and you have 5000$ in chips then you can either cash-in now or lose everything later. Having two first round picks for future consideration (what we paid for SM) is extremely good value. Waiting the deadline for him to injure himself like last year just to get a b prospect added to the deal would have been stupid imo. Acquiring Martinsen, Ott and King at the deadline IS a panic trade.

That’s was definitely NOT a panic trade because MB gave up virtually nothing to acquire all 3-players combined

That was how can I use 25 cents to win $5 in the slot machine move, because Julien wanted beef on the 4th line as he had w Bruins

 

[salbutera]

 

[JoelWarlord]

Im not sure what the difference between getting Allen now and in the summer. Like what actually changes

I don't know any specific examples of teams off the top of my head, but presumably something like a team that can't afford him right now but they have an expiring contract (not necessarily a G either) that will free up the money to add him in the summer. And/or they aren't willing to either take on Allen's full salary and limit their deadline options but aren't willing to pay a 2nd for him with retain, but in the summer they would pay a 4th to get him at full salary when they have an offseason to plan around that cap hit.

 

[Egresch]

CGY 1st could be at that level on its own.

Mailloux + could get you there. But do we want to give up Mailloux? For me he's the type of player we'd want to get at 13th overall. But yeah, for the right forward he's the type of dman you look at dealing.

I don't think anyone's trading us the 13th overall pick for Barron, WPG 1st, even if you add to it.

Ok, we also have Mesar, Beck andyou dont really need 13th. Newhook went for late 1st and 2nd.

 

[LaP]

That’s was definitely NOT a panic trade because MB gave up virtually nothing to acquire all 3-players combined

That was how can I use 25 cents to win $5 in the slot machine move, because Julien wanted beef on the 4th line as he had w Bruins

King actually made the team worse so him costing nothing (which is false we gave a cond 3rd for him) is not relevant. Any pro scout would have told MB that so it was a panic move than was not properly scouted.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Kova is a bit player, marginal NHLer. 2nd for him is ludicrous.

What is the worth of a 2nd round pick?
Honestly nothing is kind. Look at the habs 2nd round pick of the past decade? Nothing even decent and don't talk to me about Hutson (he is still just a prospect)

 

[Captain Mountain]

The equilibrium is easy to find. No reason to trade picks for vets unless you are aiming for a cup. I'm sure in Ottawa's GM mind he was aiming for a cup but reality can be a bitch. Trading picks to make da playoffs and be in no man's land is a pretty bad strategy. If your kids can't make the playoffs on their own then they are likely no good enough / not ready and you have to wait and draft more. Trading picks for kids yeah.

Dorion traded for guys who, at the time, were 24 years old who weren't rentals. Something that fans here consistently advocate.

The equilibrium is being realistic of what you have, what you need and what you can afford to pay. Ottawa overrated their young core and didn't address real areas of need (two way RD and two way forwards). And they gave up big futures pieces to do so. Its not the same for every team. Florida isn't where they are without betting on Bennett, Reinhart, etc.

HuGo have been slightly less ambitious and younger in their trade targets (Dach and Newhook), but also have their firsts and have been adding prospects and picks as well. And that still may not work either.

The Habs needed and still need to know what they have (injuries haven't helped). But we're starting to see who they have who may be important parts of a contending roster. And with that knowledge you can start to see what areas are less likely to be addressed internally and who may be out there to address it.

 

[Steve Shutt]

Don’t think I’ve ever seen a mainstream insider saying that the Oilers offered up a 1st rounder for a rental:

In a return for Savard - would you rather get
A) 2nd and prospect equivalent to a 2nd (see Tanev return)
B) 1st and Ceci

I haven't see Ceci play. As a 30 year old RD making 3.25 x 2 I'm surprised he has negative value

 

[JoelWarlord]

hope Kent holds his cards close to his chest because I think we undersold SM by a mile. Stop doing the Bergy panic trades and wait it out, teams will end up overpaying close to the deadline

I dunno, Elias Lindholm was the top C available and is perceived to be a better player than Monahan by a pretty decent margin and he went for a 1st, a cap dump, and an OK prospect. By comparison in perceived value and pricing in the injury risk, Monahan for a 1st and a long-shot conditional 3rd seems about fair. Trading him when there's a 2024 1st on the table after his season ending injury last year just seems like the prudent thing to do, not a panic move at all imo.

I just don't really see a world where Monahan returns another significant piece on top of a 1st. Sure, we probably could have waited and got an extra 4th or a guaranteed 3rd instead of the 3rd being conditional on Winnipeg winning the cup or something, but I don't think it's worth taking the chance of him getting injured again to squeeze every penny out of that situation when you can just take the 1st and the injury risk becomes someone else's problem.

 

[LaP]

In a return for Savard - would you rather get
A) 2nd and prospect equivalent to a 2nd (see Tanev return)
B) 1st and Ceci

I haven't see Ceci play. As a 30 year old RD making 3.25 x 2 I'm surprised he has negative value

I'd go with the Tanev return. I think we need to stop getting cap dump unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

[Kosseca]

Cap goes up?

one less year on his contract?

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Nothing is more overrated than draft pick on this board......

Or underrated, apparently...

 

[Habs]

It was not a panic trade. KH was simply not fine waiting and risking having nothing for Monahan. It's like playiong the casino. If you enter the casino with 50$ and you have 5000$ in chips then you can either cash-in now or lose everything later. Having two first round picks for future consideration (what we paid for SM) is extremely good value. Waiting the deadline for him to injure himself like last year just to get a b prospect added to the deal would have been stupid imo. Acquiring Martinsen, Ott and King at the deadline IS a panic trade.

i think we could have held out and received more, SM is a hell of a player and a rare commodity for those looking for a cup run

 

[26Mats]

Ok, we also have Mesar, Beck andyou dont really need 13th. Newhook went for late 1st and 2nd.

Yes, we may be. able to get another Newhook with the WPG pick +

But not another Dach.

 

[LaP]

What is the worth of a 2nd round pick?
Honestly nothing is kind. Look at the habs 2nd round pick of the past decade? Nothing even decent and don't talk to me about Hutson (he is still just a prospect)

Nothing decent? Obviously if you watch the last 5 years no not yet. I mean those guys are 22 only. 2nd round picks usually take a while to develop. We don't know how good or not Struble will be when he'll be 25. We also don't know what we have in Beck or Hutson. Kapanen also has good stats in Europe.

But saying we did not pick anything good in the 2nd round is simply not being honest. If we exclude the last 5 years cause the guys are still too young to properly evaluate them and we take a good enough sample sized (10 years) here's the guys we got in the 2nd round from 2009 to 2018 (10 2nd picks total).

Lehkonen
Romanov

There's also Ylonen who is still kind of a question mark but i counted him out cause for now he's just a 4th line player. In those 10 years we had 10 2nd round picks. So 2 good players out of 10 picks is 20% chances to have a good 2nd line or 2nd pairing guy. Nothing even decent is not a good description of that 20%. If we go back further that's even less of a good description cause we got Subban in the 2nd round in 2007.

If you can get a 20% chance to turn Kova into Lehkonen or Romanov you jump on it and you ask no question.

 

[26Mats]

In a return for Savard - would you rather get
A) 2nd and prospect equivalent to a 2nd (see Tanev return)
B) 1st and Ceci

I haven't see Ceci play. As a 30 year old RD making 3.25 x 2 I'm surprised he has negative value

Ceci is playing 20 minutes a night in Edmonton. he's their number 4. If he's a cap dump the Oilers are in serious trouble. They really need to get Savard 50% retained.

But to answer the question, yes, I'd trade Savard 50% retained for a 1st and Cevci or for the 2nd and the equivalent prospect that Calgary got.

My main motivation isn't the reurn. That's great, but secondary. My main motivation is trying to drop in the standings to 4th or 5th last for the upcoming lottery draft.

 

[Runner77]

King actually made the team worse so him costing nothing (which is false we gave a cond 3rd for him) is not relevant. Any pro scout would have told MB that so it was a panic move than was not properly scouted.

Yes, it was ultimately the GM’s decision.

But we don’t really know how good pro scouting might have been in the early MB years.

Heck, Martin Lapointe was inherited and promoted by HuGo — and like Letowski, no one really knows what he contributes other than being the lucky SOB who became Gorton’s buddy from their Booins days.

When it comes to scouting underlings, no one really knows who does what nor how they are evaluated.

 

[salbutera]

King actually made the team worse so him costing nothing (which is false we gave a cond 3rd for him) is not relevant. Any pro scout would have told MB that so it was a panic move than was not properly scouted.

It wasn’t a panic move - it was a strategic move, MB & Julien thought they could get past NYR by physically abusing them. Assembling a 4th line capable of LAK Cup winning heavy hockey.

They knew by deadline NYR were going to be first round matchup

Recall, game 1 post trade in March was in MSG vs NYR, Martinsen was physical and abused the NYR D, and Ott was chirping away at Ranger players throwing them off their game - Habs dominated and won that game 3-1 or 4-1 can’t remember

It was a flawed strategy, however, since Habs biggest need was offense, lack of scoring cost them in the playoffs vs NYR: just 2G more and they’d have won round 1. Also like the Erat trade for Caps, King had no interest in being away from his family in LA… it showed in his performance

 

[Runner77]

Yes, we may be. able to get another Newhook with the WPG pick +

But not another Dach.

I’d like to see Hughes land another 1st rounder just to be able to package it with the Peg pick either to move up or land an NHL-ready young upside player whose team has soured on.