HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[Sterling Archer]

You know where I’m getting the $10M figure. See @Vachon23 post above. Top goalies in the elite category are $10M plus.

Plus cap is going up. $10 Million plus will happen again.

Agree to disagree, this is going nowhere.

We’re definitely not going to agree when you’re working off a different fact set from reality. Several high caliber goalies have recently been signed and none got more than $7.5M, and likely won’t get close to $10M for sometime. It was anomalous and the league have all seen how bad a move it is to sign a goalie for that much.

My original point of a goalie having to be one of the better players on a contending team holds, especially if you look at the standings today. You’re not going anywhere without solid goaltending and certainly not winning a cup unless you fluke one.

 

[themilosh]

Turning Valardi into Gallagher and Anderson would look even worse for management. At least with PLD they can bet he will bounce back in the future, there is no potential in Gallagher and Anderson.

again, you are not considering 8 more years... this is a BIG issue. Also, we'd add a 2nd and a barron/harris type so they can save face,. Sometimes you have to cut your losses.... this is how people go bankrupt in stocks, or casino busting. PLD is a perfect 2nd liner (without the pressure on him) - he's a complimentary style player, not a play driver... LA needed (and expects) a Kopitar replacement, not going to happen.

 

[Runner77]

We’re definitely not going to agree when you’re working off a different fact set from reality.

Whose “reality”? That sounds like you’re saying one of us is being delusional.

Look man, I never once questioned your mental state in rebutting any of your posts about goalies today. It would be appreciated if you would extend the same courtesy. Thanks.

 

[kinghock]

again, you are not considering 8 more years... this is a BIG issue. Also, we'd add a 2nd and a barron/harris type so they can save face,. Sometimes you have to cut your losses.... this is how people go bankrupt in stocks, or casino busting. PLD is a perfect 2nd liner (without the pressure on him) - he's a complimentary style player, not a play driver... LA needed (and expects) a Kopitar replacement, not going to happen.

PLD started slowly in LA, but after new coach has been hired, he is getting progressively better with every game.
Even Kings fans who complained about his play now are able to understand what he brings to the team.
Eight years of his contract may be not a great value, but not a bad contract either.
There is absolutely no way Kings will trade him for Gallagher and Anderson.
Their combine contracts and their age make them untradable, especially Gallagher.

 

[salbutera]

And those 3 Goalies have made the Stanley Cup final since 2020

While being a key reason for their teams to make the finals

 

[Deus ex machina]

again, you are not considering 8 more years... this is a BIG issue. Also, we'd add a 2nd and a barron/harris type so they can save face,. Sometimes you have to cut your losses.... this is how people go bankrupt in stocks, or casino busting. PLD is a perfect 2nd liner (without the pressure on him) - he's a complimentary style player, not a play driver... LA needed (and expects) a Kopitar replacement, not going to happen.

I have to agree with him. There's no way the Kings are gonna scrap the next 4 years just to maybe not scrap the following 4.
Not with Kopitar and Doughty on their last years.

I can see Anderson maybe being part of a trade for PLD, but no way they're taking Gallagher.
Like i said before, if they trade PLD now, i think it will be to make room for a goalie, cap wise.
Otherwise, they'll probably just be patient with him.

 

[Runner77]

I have to agree with him. There's no way the Kings are gonna scrap the next 4 years just to maybe not scrap the following 4.
Not with Kopitar and Doughty on their last years.

I can see Anderson maybe being part of a trade for PLD, but no way they're taking Gallagher.
Like i said before, if they trade PLD now, i think it will be to make room for a goalie, cap wise.
Otherwise, they'll probably just be patient with him.

What happens if Bergie is named GM, though?

 

[Deus ex machina]

What happens if Bergie is named GM, though?

Haha...
I think Bergie is even more obsessed with PLD than Gally and Andy.
Didn't he nixed a PK trade to Vancouver for Horvat, Tanev and 5th OA just because PLD wasn't available anymore?

 

[The Great Weal]

It'd be really fun to imagine a scenario where the Canucks will trade Pettersson since he isn't committed longterm. I doubt we would be able to convince him to play for us and it sounds like he hasn't accepted a 12x8 deal which is a lot of money.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Whose “reality”? That sounds like you’re saying one of us is being delusional.

Look man, I never once questioned your mental state in rebutting any of your posts about goalies today. It would be appreciated if you would extend the same courtesy. Thanks.

I never questioned your mental state. You made a comment how the price of a great goaltender was $10M+. I showed you a list of goalie cap numbers where there is only 1 NHL goalie who makes $10M, another at $9.5M and every other goalie is at $7.5M and under. That’s the facts, not a shot at your mental state.

The reality is goaltender market is nowhere near what you’re making it out to be and most any team would gladly as a Hellebuyck, Shesterkin, etc. and be way better off for it.

I think you just Interjected your point into my post and we’re talking about two similar but very separate things.

 

[Runner77]

It'd be really fun to imagine a scenario where the Canucks will trade Pettersson since he isn't committed longterm. I doubt we would be able to convince him to play for us and it sounds like he hasn't accepted a 12x8 deal which is a lot of money.

Likely not but on the slim chance that Pettersson would commit to the Habs, we certainly have more than enough ammo to get a deal done.

I never questioned your mental state.

Maybe not intentionally but the words you used suggest otherwise.

I’m moving on.

 

[Weltschmerz]

We’re definitely not going to agree when you’re working off a different fact set from reality. Several high caliber goalies have recently been signed and none got more than $7.5M, and likely won’t get close to $10M for sometime. It was anomalous and the league have all seen how bad a move it is to sign a goalie for that much.

My original point of a goalie having to be one of the better players on a contending team holds, especially if you look at the standings today. You’re not going anywhere without solid goaltending and certainly not winning a cup unless you fluke one.

Helle will have a cap hit of 8.5 next season, not sure when 10 will be the norm but it will happen someday.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Helle will have a cap hit of 8.5 next season, not sure when 10 will be the norm but it will happen someday.

Eventually it will but not at as large a percentage of the cap as $10M once was. League realized it was not a good idea to put that much cap on a goalie.

 

[Kimota]

Only 1 goaltender won the Conn Smythe in the last decade. Compared to the one before, it's 4 times less. The reason is all the changes in the rules to favor goal scorers. That's why it's no longer critical to invest tons in a goaltender.

Look at Tampa without Vasilevskiy, they are trash. And Hill was amazing in the playoffs and without him they may have not won the cup. The Knights were a great team for sure but it takes a balance and you cannot win without a great goalie in my opinion.

 

[calder candidate]

I don't care if Suzuki whines to the media again about trades not bringing in anyone and only sending them out. Send out Matheson at the draft, I think he'll be worth the most then.

Matheson is a top 4 D still in is prime and a great contrat it would take a lot to make it worth it…

 

[Habs Icing]

Monty has started 11 games vs playoff teams and Allen has started 10.

Two points.

1) You said Primeau - not Allen.
2) You want to bring in Allen? Okay! Compare his stats with Monty. Allen sv% 892, gaa 3.68. Monty : sv% 902, GAA 3.21.

If you want a discussion, don't change the goalposts.

 

[therocket9]

Two points.

1) You said Primeau - not Allen.
2) You want to bring in Allen? Okay! Compare his stats with Monty. Allen sv% 892, gaa 3.68. Monty : sv% 902, GAA 3.21.

If you want a discussion, don't change the goalposts.

You are doing that Monty is not a proven goalie at the pro level...PERIOD....he has been nothing but mediocre in the ahl and nhl....just the facts.

Two points.

1) You said Primeau - not Allen.
2) You want to bring in Allen? Okay! Compare his stats with Monty. Allen sv% 892, gaa 3.68. Monty : sv% 902, GAA 3.21.

If you want a discussion, don't change the goalposts.

What are u an idiot who cares if Monty is better than Allen and Primeau so is everyone in the league that does not make Monty to quote you ''a very good goalie" false.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

200 pages on PLD last year...he goes somewhere else, signs an 8 year deal, plays like trash....
AND PEOPLE STILL TALKING ABOUT GETTING HIM!!!!

View attachment 824818

You might be right, better keep Gally and PowerHorse Anderson. PLD is a worse catatrophy than those 2. And at 25 there is no chance he could improve ya no.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

It’s not the players; it’s the system. Put a sound, zone D system with this team and it would be much better.

Agree. What jump in my eyes is the absence of a system. Outside the first line it's a desert. I dont watch much that team cuz I don't like what I see. First period usually are ok, followed by an atrocious second period when everything falls apart and they try to come back at 16 minutes of the third. But there is no system in that team. Other teams have a system and I enjoy watching them, a well oiled machine when each effort is worth.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

If the goalie has to be one of your best, he’s also bound to take up in the neighborhood of $10 Million AAV. Is that advisable?

This where I disagree, not being one of the best players on the team but the price tag. 10$. Is this is the norm? Why he have to be paid that amount? I just want Habs to have a good goalie but I don't like the more than 8 millions. More than this creates Diva personality, hardcore fans and tons of debates. Too much pressure a goalie paid that price, especially in Montreal territory. On a side note I agree 10M for a real first C like Crosby, Matthews, Stamkos, McDavid or MacKinnon.

 

[ML16]

This where I disagree, not being one of the best players on the team but the price tag. 10$. Is this is the norm? Why he have to be paid that amount? I just want Habs to have a good goalie but I don't like the more than 8 millions. More than this creates Diva personality, hardcore fans and tons of debates. Too much pressure a goalie paid that price, especially in Montreal territory. On a side note I agree 10M for a real first C like Crosby, Matthews, Stamkos, McDavid or MacKinnon.

Organization-wise, goalies amount to 8% of the roster, so I humbly think 10% should be the optimal amount of cap space devoted to the position (around 8-9M overall
as it stands) ; somewhere between a classic #1 (6-7M) and #2 (1-2M) and a tandem #1A (4-5M) and #1B (3-4M).

 

[Egresch]

It'd be really fun to imagine a scenario where the Canucks will trade Pettersson since he isn't committed longterm. I doubt we would be able to convince him to play for us and it sounds like he hasn't accepted a 12x8 deal which is a lot of money.

I am sure some very inyeresting negotiations are happening behind the scenes. Canucks have 2 runs for the cup and they are finished. Their salary structure is tight and they need to sign EP, Hronek and potentially Lindholm. Also need few more Ds to sign, considering buyout penalty for Ekman-Larsson hits them fully in 25-26.
I would not be surprised if Pettersson signs some strange 2x10m extension.

 

[Whalers Fan]

See 4 million caphit for seasoned backup grossly overpayment though. Got team in mess now with his cap, Allen unmovable. hurt Primeau development. Lost a high end asset in trading Allen last year . When he was on cheap expiring contract and Habs in position to retain.

Allen was never going to return a "high end asset" in a trade. Backup goalies never do - - and neither do average to mediocre starters.

 

[Habs Icing]

You are doing that Monty is not a proven goalie at the pro level...PERIOD....he has been nothing but mediocre in the ahl and nhl....just the facts.


What are u an idiot who cares if Monty is better than Allen and Primeau so is everyone in the league that does not make Monty to quote you ''a very good goalie" false.

I see. Insults are the last refuge when you are losing an argument.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Organization-wise, goalies amount to 8% of the roster, so I humbly think 10% should be the optimal amount of cap space devoted to the position (around 8-9M overall
as it stands) ; somewhere between a classic #1 (6-7M) and #2 (1-2M) and a tandem #1A (4-5M) and #1B (3-4M).

Yes but the original poster (I do respect him a lot) brings the salary on the discussion way before we have a great goalie. This is one of the problem with Habs. Recent history shows we overpaid for a lot of players. We needed desperatly a center to replace Koivu, Gainey signed Gomez around 8M, Bergy was desperate having a #1C, he traded a good D for a winger who never played center and overpaid him. We needed to replace Danault/Kotka, Bergy overpaid Dvorak. Bergy had to sign Gallagher, he overpaid him by at least 2M (and a long long contract). Bergy wanted a true physical winger who can drop gloves, he overpaid Anderson. Bergy needed an offensive winger to replace Tatar, he overpaid Hoffman, etc.

The philosophy of the Habs is we need a type of player, we overpay him and we hope he will deliver according to his salary. I hope fans learned a lesson from the past.