HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

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Sterling Archer

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Goalie needs to be one of the best players on the team. Not necessarily THE best player on the team. I’d say top 3-5 to be effective on a contending team. Some goalies get hot in the playoffs but that’s more the exception then the rule.
 

HabsCode

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Trade all assets 28+. Keep drafting high (get a high profile goaltender as soon as possible), keep building that scouting and development team, see if St. Louis is the long term solution. Profit in 5 years.

If they get any luck on the UFA market, go for a solid top #4 two-way defenseman.
 

Runner77

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Goalie needs to be one of the best players on the team. Not necessarily THE best player on the team. I’d say top 3-5 to be effective on a contending team. Some goalies get hot in the playoffs but that’s more the exception than the rule.
If the goalie has to be one of your best, he’s also bound to take up in the neighborhood of $10 Million AAV. Is that advisable?
 

themilosh

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You think he’d have less pressure being a francophone making $8.5 million for the next 7 years playing in Montreal then he does playing in LA? Hughes wouldn’t touch this guy with a ten foot pole. It goes against what they’re trying to build here. This is the third team he’s burnt bridges with in stunning fashion in 7 years. People should be very grateful we didn’t fall for the media driven hype last summer.
it's the context of the trade... You are absolutely right if we gave up what LA did to get him and he performed here (just like LA) he would be in hiding... BUT, if he were to come here now at his current contract in exchange for two brutal contracts (Gally and Anderson), it would be beneficial for our team.. Similar to trading Weber (it serves a purpose and a need).

I have no problem with him making $8.5m that is a 2nd line (top 6 salary).... Id prefer his salary at 8.5M than Gally+Andy at even more.
 

HabsCode

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it's the context of the trade... You are absolutely right if we gave up what LA did to get him and he performed here (just like LA) he would be in hiding... BUT, if he were to come here now at his current contract in exchange for two brutal contracts (Gally and Anderson), it would be beneficial for our team.. Similar to trading Weber (it serves a purpose and a need).

I have no problem with him making $8.5m that is a 2nd line (top 6 salary).... Id prefer his salary at 8.5M than Gally+Andy at even more.
And why would LA trade him for Gallagher and Anderson lmao?
 

Sterling Archer

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If the goalie has to be one of your best, he’s also bound to take up in the neighborhood of $10 Million AAV. Is that advisable?
Not at all and not what I said. Generally speaking the teams best player is center and D, those are the best and top paid players. If you’re an all star goalie $7-$8M is fine by me and should fit into a teams cap structure. Look at how many contending teams now are screwed because they don’t have a solid goalie and are desperate for one now. I don’t think any of them wouldn’t be happy to give $7-$8M now for a top tier goalie right now if they were available.

I said $10M is too much for a goalie and at $10M, it’s likely your best player which we all know can’t be the case for a contender with any real hope of succeeding in the playoffs.
 

Runner77

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Only 3 goaltender make around 10 million right now Price, Brobov and Vasilevsky. You can have a solid #1 playoff competitive for less than that.
For how long though? If you’re building a team that involves a top goaltender and you want to get on a playoff run over several seasons, you’ll have to decide whether or not to commit to the guy. And that will end up taking a lot of AAV.

Several Cup finalists over recent years have made it without rostering a top goalie so this could all be moot.
 

HabsCode

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For how long though? If you’re building a team that involves a top goaltender and you want to get on a playoff run over several seasons, you’ll have to decide whether or not to commit to the guy. And that will end up taking a lot of AAV.

Several Cup finalists over recent years have made it without rostering a top goalie so this could all be moot.
IMO, like the poster above said if you want to build long lasting success and a solid foundation centers and defenseman are the most important position. You only need a solid goaltender to be good enough to get you to playoffs and stay good during the playoff to get you far. Of course elite goaltending will give you an edge, and that is what generally happen, a solid goaltender happen to get hot for a run to the cup. No point to build a franchise around a goaltender like they did with Price if you can’t afford to pay the main cast, unless you are Tampa Bay and your top guy agree to team friendly deals plus you are wise at dealing with the cap.
 
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Runner77

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Not at all and not what I said. Generally speaking the teams best player is center and D, those are the best and top paid players. If you’re an all star goalie $7-$8M is fine by me and should fit into a teams cap structure. Look at how many contending teams now are screwed because they don’t have a solid goalie and are desperate for one now. I don’t think any of them wouldn’t be happy to give $7-$8M now for a top tier goalie right now if they were available.

I said $10M is too much for a goalie and at $10M, it’s likely your best player which we all know can’t be the case for a contender with any real hope of succeeding in the playoffs.
I know you didn’t talk about AAV in your original post but I did. I never said you mentioned AAV.

But, what you did say is how a goalie “needs” to be one of the best players on the team (top 3-5 you said) and all I’m rebutting with, is AAV and how several SC finalists made it without rostering one as one of the best on their respective team, but only one that put it together or got lucky or both at the right time.

In a hard cap league, I don’t like the idea of allocating so much AAV to a goalie but that’s just my 2 cents. I just feel that overly paying a goalie involves making sacrifices elsewhere that would not be palatable.
 

Heffyhoof

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A goalie should be thought of like a forward line or a defensive pair, as he occupies his own space. Can you win the cup with a 1st line that's average? Potentially, but the odds are increased as the 1st line gets better. Same with d-pair and same with goaltending.

Team building is about likelihood considering you're trying to project how 23+ humans will perform over 82 games and then a post-season. Having an above-average goaltender will give your team a yearly better chance at winning the cup.

I'd argue that the ~3$ mil in salary difference between the average goalie and a top-10 is likely more impactful than ~3$mil spent on your first line players, unless it's all towards a super freak like McDavid. Basically, a team with 30$mil on their first line and 5$mil on their goaltending is less likely to win than the team with 27$mil on their first and 8$mil on their goaltender in a vacuum.

Montreal's weakness was having a 10$mil goaltender and a first line that was less than 20$mil.
 

Sterling Archer

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I know you didn’t talk about AAV in your original post but I did. I never said you mentioned AAV.

But, what you did say is how a goalie “needs” to be one of the best players on the team (top 3-5 you said) and all I’m rebutting with, is AAV and how several SC finalists made it without rostering one as one of the best on their respective team, but only one that put it together or got lucky or both at the right time.

In a hard cap league, I don’t like the idea of allocating so much AAV to a goalie but that’s just my 2 cents. I just feel that overly paying a goalie involves making sacrifices elsewhere that would not be palatable.
I think it’s a major gamble not to allocate and have a great goalie but as a love long Habs fan, I may be a little bias. I also look at teams like Edmonton, Toronto, NJ, Carolina etc. who would be far better off if they had a solid goalie and notice all the teams above them in the standings have better goaltending then they do. It’s not a coincidence and I’d rather play a 7 game series with a stud in net the. Hope to outscore the other team to carry my goaltender. It’s simply not a recipe for being a real contender. Not that is hasn’t happened, but if you look at the past cup winners, they all had stellar goaltending.
 

Runner77

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IMO, like the poster above said if you want to build long lasting success and a solid foundation centers and defenseman are the most important position. You only need a solid goaltender to be good enough to get you to playoffs and stay good during the playoff to get you far. Of course elite goaltending will give you an edge, and that is what generally happen, a solid goaltender happen to get hot for a run to the cup. No point to build a franchise around a goaltender like they did with Price if you can’t afford to pay the main cast, unless you are Tampa Bay and your top guy agree to team friendly deals plus you are wise at dealing with the cap.
We’re on the same page. A “solid” goaltender is enough in my view.
 

Runner77

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I think it’s a major gamble not to allocate and have a great goalie but as a love long Habs fan, I may be a little bias. I also look at teams like Edmonton, Toronto, NJ, Carolina etc. who would be far better off if they had a solid goalie and notice all the teams above them in the standings have better goaltending then they do. It’s not a coincidence and I’d rather play a 7 game series with a stud in net the. Hope to outscore the other team to carry my goaltender. It’s simply not a recipe for being a real contender. Not that is hasn’t happened, but if you look at the past cup winners, they all had stellar goaltending.
Don’t know that you need a great goalie when solid can do the job. Those teams you mention for the most part have porous D, so a better goalie wouldn’t solve their issues, it’s more of a systemic thing and rebalancing their asset allocation.
 

Runner77

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And those 3 Goalies have made the Stanley Cup final since 2020
There were 8 Stanley Cup finalists since 2020. I didn’t check if any of them were repeat finalists but if they weren’t it would mean that 5 teams made it without rostering that type of goalie.

Also, you’re including bastardized Covid playoffs in there which should be followed by an asterisk.
 
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Sterling Archer

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Don’t know that you need a great goalie when solid can do the job. Those teams you mention for the most part have porous D, so a better goalie wouldn’t solve their issues, it’s more of a systemic thing and rebalancing their asset allocation.
Difference between good and great is a fine line. If you’re a team with heavy cap resources up front, a solid goalie can cover up a lot of porous D and system faults. Come playoffs when games are tighter and lower scoring, having the better D is a very large advantage. It’s how a bottom feeder like Habs could beat the Leafs and Jets beat Oliers in the first round along with several other examples. Happens a lot in the playoffs.
 

Habs Icing

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Montembeault still looks mediocre cannot ever make the playoffs until Hughes gets a #1 goalie.....Monty does not have to be Price but he at least has to put up Alex Lyon numbers.
Monty is a very good goalie. He proved it with Team Canada. The problem with this Habs team is they are trying to break in 3 and on some nights 4 young d-men. If you want to see how good Monty is just look at the other two goalies behind the same defence.
 

therocket9

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Monty is a very good goalie. He proved it with Team Canada. The problem with this Habs team is they are trying to break in 3 and on some nights 4 young d-men. If you want to see how good Monty is just look at the other two goalies behind the same defence.
He is a very good goalie based on what that he has a career best .902% percentage this year and Primeau has a .901% save percentage or because he has 3 wins this year vs playoff teams.
 

Habs Icing

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He is a very good goalie based on what that he has a career best .902% percentage this year and Primeau has a .901% save percentage or because he has 3 wins this year vs playoff teams.
Primeau has been protected all year long. Monty has played most of the tough teams. Or don't you watch Habs games?
 

Runner77

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Difference between good and great is a fine line. If you’re a team with heavy cap resources up front, a solid goalie can cover up a lot of porous D and system faults. Come playoffs when games are tighter and lower scoring, having the better D is a very large advantage. It’s how a bottom feeder like Habs could beat the Leafs and Jets beat Oliers in the first round along with several other examples. Happens a lot in the playoffs.
I don’t ascribe much weight to that Habs Covid finals. Just look at the number of regular season games played during that season. Too lazy to look it up but what about those “play-ins”? How’s that for reliable comparative performance?

Give me the better D and the lesser goalie rather than the elite goalie and a shabby D.

We never defined good and great but I never intended there to be such a fine line obviously since the difference in AAV between them was my argument — not just a small amount of AAV.
 

BLONG7

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Only 3 goaltender make around 10 million right now Price, Brobov and Vasilevsky. You can have a solid #1 playoff competitive for less than that.
Adin Hill..............................won the Cup with a very good team last year. Adin Hill?
I remember reading he was the 5th goalie in line when camp opened....
You can win the Cup with just good goaltending...................you do not have to have one of the best or highest paid goalies, to win the Cup.
This is a fact, we can just go back each year over year. Remember Neimi won a Cup, why? Because the Hawks had the best team that year, in the playoffs.

So Neimi gets a Cup and Price and The King don't....beyond strange eh.
 
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