HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

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BLONG7

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He is a very good goalie based on what that he has a career best .902% percentage this year and Primeau has a .901% save percentage or because he has 3 wins this year vs playoff teams.
Both of those guys would have much better numbers this year, if Allen was traded......or waived. Would we be a bubble team? Maybe, but not likely....

No one in the net had any kind of groove or rythym to get in to..........this is on Hughes.
 
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Runner77

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Monty is a very good goalie. He proved it with Team Canada. The problem with this Habs team is they are trying to break in 3 and on some nights 4 young d-men. If you want to see how good Monty is just look at the other two goalies behind the same defence.
Not taking anything away from Monty but that gold medal was at the World Championship that is replete with sad sack rosters, where Latvia beat the US and where Armia plays like an elite performer.

There are better ways to appreciate Monty but otherwise agree with you.
 
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BLONG7

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A fan of HuGo...................but maybe one of both of them could make a decision on the goalies.
3 goalies is nothing but stupid. Yes, we had another year of no expectations to kinda give away but we also lost a good year of testing Monty like a number 1 and letting Primeau develop much better as a NHL backup, who has more potential

Make a decision guys.....................Insert the goalie from Slapshot, who says Trade Me...........Trade me right Fu&^ing now!!
 

yianik

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Great v Good V Average goalie is usually about consistency.

Goalie Joe who is a career .857 and 3.88 GA stops 48 of 49 shots one night. Then 7 lousy games. Price was consistently a .925-.935 for 3-4 years. In that time there were other goalies hitting that .925, but not for 3-4 years. That's where Price was a superstar, his consistent brilliance.

So if we had a real good team in front of him, we could have had 3-4 real runs at a Cup.

Every year there will be good goalies that go hot in the playoffs and one of them may win a Cup. But then they are just good for a couple years. So how much is that difference worth ?
 

Runner77

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A fan of HuGo...................but maybe one of both of them could make a decision on the goalies.
3 goalies is nothing but stupid. Yes, we had another year of no expectations to kinda give away but we also lost a good year of testing Monty like a number 1 and letting Primeau develop much better as a NHL backup, who has more potential

Make a decision guys.....................Insert the goalie from Slapshot, who says Trade Me...........Trade me right Fu&^ing now!!
Yeah but, it’s also one of the reasons that kept Allen off the IR. :sarcasm:
 
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Sterling Archer

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I don’t ascribe much weight to that Habs Covid finals. Just look at the number of regular season games played during that season. Too lazy to look it up but what about those “play-ins”? How’s that for reliable comparative performance?

Give me the better D and the lesser goalie rather than the elite goalie and a shabby D.

We never defined good and great but I never intended there to be such a fine line obviously since the difference in AAV between them was my argument — not just a small amount of AAV.
I think the difference in what we’re saying is basically all semantics at this point. Basically you’re better off with the better goalie, but not at the cost that would prevent you from having a top end forwards and D by over paying them. But if your goalie can’t stop the puck amd keep you in the game, it’s lights out and quickly.

Like most things, it’s more a moderation and leaning on the higher end goaltending but not for $9M+.
 

nhlfan9191

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Goaltending is the #1 worry when u do not have a great team in font of you u need your goalie to be the best player and steal games.
Goaltending isn’t the number 1 worry. Not even close. Goaltending was winning us games early in both of the past few seasons inflating our record. No goalie is carrying a bottom 5 team to the playoffs much less contender status. That was a myth with Price. He carried us way above what we were in his prime but he also had help with Subban/Weber, Markov, Pacioretty, defensive system, etc. We need a lot to steer this ship right now and goaltending is the least I’m worried about. History has told us we always find a way in that category.
 
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Runner77

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I think the difference in what we’re saying is basically all semantics at this point. Basically you’re better off with the better goalie, but not at the cost that would prevent you from having a top end forwards and D by over paying them. Like most things, it’s more a moderation and leaning on the higher end goaltending but not for $9M+.
Not semantics when the cost of a great goalie is $10M +. You could get a good goalie for nearly half of that I imagine. Plus, it’s not just the domino effect on forwards and D, imagine how putrid the back up goalie would likely be.
 
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HuGort

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You have to remember the context at the time of the signing.

Monty wasn't as good as he is now. And every time Primeau got a shot, he floundered.

If Primeau played like he has most games this year, I think they'd have traded Allen and gone with a Monty/Primeau pair.
See 4 million caphit for seasoned backup grossly overpayment though. Got team in mess now with his cap, Allen unmovable. hurt Primeau development. Lost a high end asset in trading Allen last year. When he was on cheap expiring contract and Habs in position to retain.

Look at vets with similar characteristics to Allen? These many out there. They common. Cam Talbot, James Reimer, Quick be few examples. Around league minimum. That's what I meant. I am fully aware we needed vet at the time.
 

Schooner Guy

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There were 8 Stanley Cup finalists since 2020. I didn’t check if any of them were repeat finalists but if they weren’t it would mean that 5 teams made it without rostering that type of goalie.

Also, you’re including bastardized Covid playoffs in there which should be followed by an asterisk.
Not to be the 3rd man in but players throughout the league say the Covid playoffs were the toughest of all.
 
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Runner77

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Not to be the 3rd man in but players throughout the league say the Covid playoffs were the toughest of all.
Wasn’t about that though. The rules and schedule were irregular. Why don’t we have “play-ins” now? Maybe we can sneak through the back door.
 
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Naslundforever

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Hello Bergy.
lol. I hear you, but that has to do with cap management, not tactical importance of a given position.

We would probably be saying the same about baseball pitchers (that a team can’t give them too big a share of the pie) if baseball had a hard cap.

I keep hearing the Leafs and Oilers won’t win crap ever with those overpaid forwards either. Maybe hockey is a sport where you just can’t win.

Hockey is not a game where we can predict for sure the best team will win a given game. Iirc it’s the most 50-50 guess of major sports. I find comments about some teams winning with average goalies anecdotal. Over 82 games however s% has plenty of time to pay off.

In the playoffs you just give the puck to Paul DiPietro and win the cup, we all know that.
 

Schooner Guy

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Wasn’t about that though. The rules and schedule were irregular. Why don’t we have “play-ins” now? Maybe we can sneak through the back door.
Rules change all the time as have playoff formats. All teams had the same rules during the Covid years.

In other sports, MLB once had teams that were in 1st in each division before the strike and teams that were in 1st after the strike make the playoffs in an era where only division winners used to make it. The NFL once had a season where replacement players played for 1/4 of the season. The NHL has had lockout shortened seasons.

TB was still the best team in hockey during the Covid seasons.
 
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Boss Man Hughes

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See 4 million caphit for seasoned backup grossly overpayment though. Got team in mess now with his cap, Allen unmovable. hurt Primeau development. Lost a high end asset in trading Allen last year. When he was on cheap expiring contract and Habs in position to retain.

Look at vets with similar characteristics to Allen? These many out there. They common. Cam Talbot, James Reimer, Quick be few examples. Around league minimum. That's what I meant. I am fully aware we needed vet at the time.
He wasn't signed as a backup. He was the starter and cheap at the price.
 

Runner77

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Rules change all the time as have playoff formats. All teams had the same rules during the Covid rules.

In other sports, MLB once had teams that were in 1st in each division before the strike and teams that were in 1st after the strike make the playoffs in an era where only division winners used to make it. The NFL once had a season where replacement players played for 1/4 of the season. The NHL has had lockout shortened seasons.

TB was still the best team in hockey during the Covid seasons.
Rules never change to that extent. It was a once in 100 years pandemic.

How about that reorganization of divisions for the occasion? Can we have the Habs back into a division of weaker teams, the weakest of all divisions further to the temporary Covid restructuring?

The Covid playoffs were so much of an anomaly that none of the changes they begat, were retained when normal schedules resumed.
 
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Boss Man Hughes

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Wasn’t about that though. The rules and schedule were irregular. Why don’t we have “play-ins” now? Maybe we can sneak through the back door.
Weren't the play ins because teams had played different numbers of games when the season was stopped.
 

Sterling Archer

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Not semantics when the cost of a great goalie is $10M +. You could get a good goalie for nearly half of that I imagine. Plus, it’s not just the domino effect on forwards and D, imagine how putrid the back up goalie would likely be.
I disagree that the cost of a great goalie is $10M+. There isn’t even a goalie over $10M and only 1 $10M goalie in the NHL and he isn’t the best by a long shot.

Outside of the top 3 (including Price), no other goalie makes over $7.5M, so I don’t know where you’re getting this $10M from. It doesn’t happen anymore outside of 2 teams that are the outliers.

So given the top goalies at $7.5M or less, I’d say a team can add nearly any goalie under their cap if they were available and be a better team than another that chooses to go gamble and hope a lesser goalie can find lightening in a bottle during the playoffs. As most cup finals have shown, that’s not a recipe for success.

 

Runner77

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Weren't the play ins because teams had played different numbers of games when the season was stopped.
Can’t recall exactly but it seems to me that it was on account of the compressed regular season schedule and the league wanting to find a way to expand the playoff pool on account of it.
 
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Runner77

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I disagree that the cost of a great goalie is $10M+. There isn’t even a goalie over $10M and only 1 $10M goalie in the NHL and he isn’t the best by a long shot.

Outside of the top 3 (including Price), no other goalie makes over $7.5M, so I don’t know where you’re getting this $10M from. It doesn’t happen anymore outside of 2 teams that are the outliers.

So given the top goalies at $7.5M or less, I’d say a team can add nearly any goalie under their cap if they were available and be a better team than another that chooses to go gamble and hope a lesser goalie can find lightening in a bottle during the playoffs. As most cup finals have shown, that’s not a recipe for success.

You know where I’m getting the $10M figure. See @Vachon23 post above. Top goalies in the elite category are $10M plus.

Plus cap is going up. $10 Million plus will happen again.

Agree to disagree, this is going nowhere.
 
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SwiftyHab

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Not to be the 3rd man in but players throughout the league say the Covid playoffs were the toughest of all.
1708903268370.gif
 

Schooner Guy

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Rules never change to that extent. It was a once in 100 years pandemic.

How about that reorganization of divisions for the occasion? Can we have the Habs back into a division of weaker teams, the weakest of all divisions further to the temporary Covid restructuring?

The Covid playoffs were so much of an anomaly that none of the changes they begat, were retained when normal schedules resumed.
The Habs were in the same division as the Leafs, Oilers, Jets and Flames . All teams that have been relatively strong in recent years. The west division had a bunch of teams that bottomed out during those years. Also the Habs were the furthest east team in a division that traveled all the way to the west coast. That's a lot of time zones.

Of course the changes weren't retained. It doesn't make economic sense now that travel to/from Canada/USA has reopened. The travel for teams in the north was outrageously taxing on humans. Let's not forget the constant decimation that rosters such as the Habs had. The NHL did what they had to do have hockey seasons. It doesn't change the fact that the game was still played on a 200 foot ice surface with the same rules. If anything the Habs had a disadvantage because once they got out of the north in the playoffs, they faced two teams with full houses of fans.

Again, players say it was the toughest of all seasons.
 
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themilosh

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And why would LA trade him for Gallagher and Anderson lmao?
firstly, LA style is more conducive to Gally and Andy (heavy playing) energy.. Secondly their contracts will be over much sooner than PLD. Thirdly, Ego (amongst billionaires) is a thing, so long as Valardi performs as he is and Winnipeg continues to impress (while LA is faultering) it casts a HUGE black eye on management similar to DruDru and Sergachev.
 

Runner77

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The Habs were in the same division as the Leafs, Oilers, Jets and Flames . All teams that have been relatively strong in recent years. The west division had a bunch of teams that bottomed out during those years. Also the Habs were the furthest east team in a division that traveled all the way to the west coast. That's a lot of time zones.

Of course the changes weren't retained. It doesn't make economic sense now that travel to/from Canada/USA has reopened. The travel for teams in the north was outrageously taxing on humans. Let's not forget the constant decimation that rosters such as the Habs had. The NHL did what they had to do have hockey seasons. It doesn't change the fact that the game was still played on a 200 foot ice surface with the same rules. If anything the Habs had a disadvantage because once they got out of the north in the playoffs, they faced two teams with full houses of fans.

Again, players say it was the toughest of all seasons.
Meh, I can’t continue arguing with a guy who is in the penalty box on account of being 3rd man in!
 

HabsCode

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firstly, LA style is more conducive to Gally and Andy (heavy playing) energy.. Secondly their contracts will be over much sooner than PLD. Thirdly, Ego (amongst billionaires) is a thing, so long as Valardi performs as he is and Winnipeg continues to impress (while LA is faultering) it casts a HUGE black eye on management similar to DruDru and Sergachev.
Turning Valardi into Gallagher and Anderson would look even worse for management. At least with PLD they can bet he will bounce back in the future, there is no potential in Gallagher and Anderson.
 
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